what is best in life?
Whatever is keeping you alive
>>468438
its subjective
therefore it cant be answered
>>468498
That sounds like an answer Dingus.
>>468498
>therefore it cant be answered objectively
FTFY
>>468438
>what is best in life?
enemies, women, driven, raped, burning houses, etc.
>>468498
thats why I posted it, out of the subjective, to find an objective meaning.
for me, being financially independent means being free, being free means being able to dominate those that are not free. best in life is to dominate others and then creating progeny to continue my legacy.
>>468509
Ha i guess you are rigth
>>468519
>best in life is to dominate others and then creating progeny to continue my legacy.
I can dig that, I say the same as anon
>>468519
Damn Trump... cool story bro.
>>468519
so even if you are financialy independent are you free to kill?
to rape?
to steal?
sure you could probably get away with all these things with the help of money but you could just as well become punished by your judical system
Huge tits in my face constantly.
>>468438
>what is best in life?
Archived Happiness and Avoided Pain
>>468519
I would say the best thing in life is knowledge
with the rigth knowledge everything is within your grasp
>>468544
>raping, killing, stealing
if it is counterproductive in the system of values I am acting in, the system upon which I excercise control over others, then there is no necessity to pursue those actions.
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of their women.
Wow this thread is bad. I don't see any genuine philosophy, a consistent misuse of language, and a general lack of developed thought.
>>468519
>being free means being able to dominate those that are not free
If you unironically believe this, you're a fucking idiot. Read The Republic — tyrants are LITERALLY the least free kind of person.
>>468567
>it took that long for anyone to make the Conan reference
Wow. Holy shit.
>>468562
>if it is counterproductive in the system of values I am acting in, the system upon which I excercise control over others, then there is no necessity to pursue those actions.
Well put
but my point was that even with financial independence you are not truly free
you are freer then without financial independence but not completly free
freedom is a illusion most of all to those with power
because with power comes obligation
>>468517
>>468567
>>468580
You are illiterate, go back to >>>/sci/engineer4engineeranal
Not pondering what would i eat for the next meal
Not fearing that i dont have a roof to cover my head when the sky is raining or failing snow
Not fearing that i dont have any money to pay the doctor when i get sick
>>468570
>muh intellectual superiority
why dont you contribute something well worded and philosopical instead of bitching
>>468594
you don't watch enough movies.
Taking a shit so big your pants fit better.
>>468592
>you are freer then without financial independence but not completly free
as the last achieved skill we see as perfection, the most achieved independence we will percieve as freedom. perfection and freedom are mere ambitions, just as the idea of God, we created as man.
>>468544
freedom for somethings is sold to gain freedom to do other things.
I want waterparks, and can't really build one, so I forsake my freedom to kill, rape and steal everything in sight to live in a society, where I gain the freedom to go to waterparks.
Money HAS the amazing advantage of being able to buy other's freedom. I can use money to buy a dude's freedom to do nothing and instead force him to mow my lawn.
So, yeah, enough money could help you get away with murder, or you could just have enough money to comfortably shift in and out of society to have access to all kinds of freedom.
I may be to sleepy right now to make any sense, but I hope at least someone understands my point.
>>468576
>from the perspective of slaves?
No, from as close to an objective perspective as possible.
Tyrants are enslaved to the moment. They have to constantly secure/perpetuate their own power, are constantly driven to satisfy every little desire they have, the ones who keep their power have to worry about increasing it... There is no end-game when your goal is "power". You can always have more of it, and due to human nature, you will always be driven to obtain more (if only to ensure you don't lose what you already have by some pissed-off NEET shooting you in the goddamn face).
Or, as the modern sages have taught us...
>Mo' money, mo' problems.
>>468609
>the most achieved independence we will percieve as freedom
precived freedom is not true freedom
freedom cannot exist within society
the only way to be completly free is to destroy ones social contract i.e live independant of society
>>468618
Yeah i get your point but
>you are freer then without financial independence but not completly free
>precived freedom is not true freedom
>>468635
Notorious BIG here. (This guy >>468627)
Although it might seem like I'm disagreeing with OP, I actually also believe that Freedom is the good in life — at least, the "base good" from which everything else springs. I do believe that Freedom can be an end-state, but to get there we need a bit of mysticism, and I'm getting the feeling that's not the path OP really seeks.
>>468635
i would argue that the "endgames values" or epitome of society are technocracy or meritocracy and abundance for all
with ambitions such as the ones stated being the driving forces that keeps us from stagnation
>>468536
thats some tywin lannister logic right there. i approve.
>>468633
well, there is no true freedom, since the measure of freedom is power to do things inversely proportional to the gravity of consequences. Pretty much possibility/consequence=freedom/1
That leaves us with true freedom being omnipotence, hich is a paradox in itself.
No matter which path I take in life, and what I do, I won't be free to charge spiritual energy through my hands and obliterate a planet, because that's something I saw in anime and not reality. Reality binds my freedom even when society doesn't.
>>468664
>since the measure of freedom is power to do things inversely proportional to the gravity of consequences
That's a really pitiful definition of freedom.
>Reality binds my freedom even when society doesn't.
You are correct here, but I could go even further. Even if you WERE Goku — HELL, even if you were GOD, you would still be unfree. You can't make A = ~A. (And yes, I'm aware that some definitions of God allow that, but let's keep things simple for now).
>>468571
This is like 75% percent of 4chan. Look at all the shit eating dumb-asses agreeing with him.
It's poison to your mind and no one seems to see it.
>>468609
>God as ambition
>the perfection
>the freedom
>the omnipotence
>everything the man pursues
science, basically our 'religion' purified of ignorance, "after the neutron we find quarks, and so on..." all we do is driven by the ambition to become and to percieve, God. Idea we ourselves established, the X in the equation.
Living in accordance with nature, a virtuous life.
>>468698
Half those people were being ironic, steel yourself friend.
The other half can be safely assumed to be either underaged, and will therefore grow out of if, or NEET and therefore will never threaten us in any significant way.
>>468694
>That's a really pitiful definition of freedom.
I know, I'm trying to keep it simple, but you get the gist.
>Even if you WERE Goku — HELL, even if you were GOD, you would still be unfree. You can't make A = ~A. (And yes, I'm aware that some definitions of God allow that, but let's keep things simple for now).
That's why I said there is no true freedom. Omnipotence, which could give you true freedom is impossible when confronted with logic. If you where god you could surpass logic to exert your omnipotence, but then you wouldn't be omnipotent because that would mean not being omnipotent in a logic based environment.
There is no true freedom.
to crush your enemies. to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women
>>468722
You're late.
>>468717
I think there's a problem here, though. Freedom cuts two ways — there's a Freedom TO (do things, like kill or rape or blow up planets) and a Freedom FROM (from cold, or hunger or a lot of other things).
I agree that Freedom is what is most important in life, but what if we're looking at Freedom in the wrong direction? Since logic itself prohibits infinite Freedom To, might we run into the same problems when we try and capture Freedom From? Is "Infinite Freedom From" logically impossible as well?
>>468711
That's where I'm going with this, you'll be happy to know.
>>468715
I the OP, am neither ironic, nor am I underaged, I am also not a NEET since in my field of work I do actually dominate those with lesser freedoms than I have. I however am not malevolent in my actions, and am perceived as benevolent since my actions ensure their progress in gaining their individual freedoms aswell.
The point of dominating others is not in establishing power, or might, but in directing those of lesser experience in acting in their best interest if they are willing to accept it.
>>468438
A rock hard dick in a nice young pussy.
>>468704
>all we do is driven by the ambition to become and to percieve, God.
not to perceive, just to become. God is OUR ambition, OUR idea, and never an end-state, since it could never be. Just as the idea of freedom and the idea of perfection.
To conquer an earthly realm, to be a human and accept it fully.
To live like a child, and make more children.
>>468732
"freedom from" is pretty much "freedom to not", or lack of consequence.
It would translate to:
>freedom from cold, or freedom to not feel cold is freedom to be in a cold environment without the consequence of feeling cold
>freedom from hunger, or freedom to not feel hungry is the freedom to skip meals or eating altogether without the consequence of feeling hunger.
that all goes back to my post >>468664
where i stated freedom is possibility divided by consequence.
>>468715
Why is there this insatiable need to be an asshole?
If you live to oppress people than you are contrary to western philosophy. You're like a super villain living in a society that needs superheroes.
OK that guy might not want to do this but people repeatedly demonstrate that they want to dominate people. this is why this world is so fucked up.
>I'm a NEET; I have all the time in the world to develop on skills and then subsequently make money AND make the world a better place through philanthropy
>Nope better get on 4chan and spread fear and paranoia and other coward-like things
>>468738
That's a big ass.
>>468763
That's a reasonably good point, but again you're conflatin—
Fuck this.
True Freedom comes from not giving a fat shit how cold it is, not from turning on the heater. If you turn on the heater, your heater can break. Dommage! You're a slave to circumstance!
But nothing can break your ability to not give a fat shit, unless you feel like it.
Am I still making sense, now that I've ditched the crude language of academia? "Freedom From" is literally "Not Giving a Fuck". That's the best end-state to reach, like a Stoic sage who could literally be killed, and not give a fat fuck.
Praising Tengri desu.
>>468664
If there is no true freedom then freedom in itself is a illusion
this leads to the age old question of freewill
do we truly do the actions we do because we choose to do them or because we where predestined to do them lead by the guise of freewill
>>468800
So what you are saying is that freedom is a metaphysical aspect, a state of mind.
>>468814
No it's nihilism and if you want it go for it. Just know that you're probably gonna quit 10 minutes into adopting it and .0000001% of the world practices it.
>what is best in life
56 replies later
>thread derailed on the discussion of freedom
yall still havent realised what is the best thing in life
yet you all seek it
>>468814
Not so much outright metaphysical as psychological. The Roman Stoics (where I'm drawing this from) are actually the basis for much of modern psychotherapy, according to many experts in the field. I believe their direct contributions are overstated, but the influence and resulting conclusions are clear:
If you don't give a fuck, you've attained Freedom From (or at least, have more of it than you did before).
>>468808
Fuck that shit, nigga.
>>468826
So nihilism is not a state of mind?
>>468827
Read the thread, nothing got derailed, we just agreed that Freedom is where it's at.
>>468800
I do like ditching academic language, was just waiting for someone to do it so brace yourself:
YOU DON'T GIVE A FUCK! Try not giving a fuck about aids then, you'll die son.
Being free is being able to not needing to give a fuck, to rip aids a new one if it gets near you, to torch your house and not die to get away fro cold, or just saying fuck you to the cold.
If you just don't give a fuck you get shit like sneezing and shit. If you turn on the heater you can not give a fuck about giving a fuck or not until it breaks because you don't even feel like you should give a fuck.
>>468808
we were predestined to choose, if you believe things like the laplace devil, which i do.
>>468829
>Fuck that shit, nigga.
Yeah the whole the entire universe is predestined everything happens not because of circumstance but because it is the only way it can happen because no other alternative exists and every action you take in life is not your action it is merely a fiber of a single thread in the tapestry is kinda depressing, awe inspiring but depressing
>i want muh freewill
>>468835
>Try not giving a fuck about aids then
I'm 22 and I have lupus, arthritis, vitiligo, several more autoimmunes (all autoimmunes are co-morbid) and my liver is failing. My immune system is attacking the rest of my body. I *wish* my T-Cells were getting BTFO.
You have no reason to believe anything I just said, but Stoicism has helped countless people throughout the ages. It's two greatest practitioners were a Roman Emperor, and a slave. One could have had any pleasure in the world, the other was basically being tortured 24/7. Stoicism helped both of them, and it only has one tenet:
Don't give a fuck about none, nigga. Giving a fat shit is for weak-ass motherfuckers. Live according to nature, AKA get busy and don't stress mofo.
>>468833
nah nigga we agreed that freedom is pointless and basically unachivable
knowledge is where its at
>>468857
Bitch, you might be free to believe that (ayyy see, you still need freedums), but I'm pretty sure I know what this thread is about. Also, you need freedom to seek knowledge anyway.
>>468850
Nah, dude. Stoicism actually begins with that in mind, and then goes on to say you can STILL be free. Marcus Aurelius goes on at length about this, actually. Remember, YOU are the one who controls whether something is depressing
Speaking of which...
>somewhere out there, the emperor Marcus Aurelius watches as teenagers write to each other like inbred africans and discuss his writings
>>468829
>Not so much outright metaphysical as psychological
personally i view the phsyce / the mind as a metaphysical aspect of the physical brain
so a state of mind (wich nihilism basically is) IMO is metaphysical
>>468870
Nihilism isn't a state of mind, though. It's a set of assumptions about the world and your relation to it.
>>468869
>you need freedom to seek knowledge anyway.
what if you where predestined to seek knowledge?
>>468876
>It's a set of assumptions about the world and your relation to it.
wich creates a nihilistic state of mind
it migth not be a state of mind but the end result of it is a state of mind
but this is basically just arguing semantics
>>468879
I mean, I'm a Stoic, buddy. I'm gonna argue that no amount of predestination can make you WANT something.
So you need to want to seek knowledge.
So you need to be in control of your desires/instincts/appetites enough that you want it.
So, you need to be Free, in a very small but utterly important way.
Feel free to disagree. Many have. But you won't be able to accuse me of being logically inconsistent.
>>468888
>nihilistic state of mind
No, you fugging nerdherder. "Nihilistic State of Mind" just means that you've accepted those premises AND NOTHING ELSE.
>semantics
You are right about that.
Anyway, OP. Freedom is found in being free from external worry. This can be best achieved through Stoicism, or a similar philosophy, that advocates comprehensive self-control and such.
>>468855
Good for you about the stoicism, my feelings for your diseases (seriously, i know your shit is bad). You may be able to ignore it, but you're still not free to not be affected. You suffer consequences.
>>468910
>you're still not free to not be affected. You suffer consequences.
There are consequences. Suffering is my choice, though.
>>468796
U U
U U
>>468918
I don't say suffer in the meaning of "feeling grief sadness and whatever else"... i ment it as "your liver is still gonna fail and you don't have the freedom to AVOID that".
If you were omnipotent, or even not that, but just uber-rich enough to redirect all farmaceutical research teams worldwide to find a way to unfuck you, then you'd have a higher amount of freedom.
>>468869
>and then goes on to say you can STILL be free. Marcus Aurelius goes on at length about this
imma have to read this
i cant see how you can be free if every last detail of the world is predestined
unless the "illusion of freedom" is what creates freedom, the fact that we think we are free makes us free
if you know what im saying
im getting kinda tired so migth not make so much sens
>somewhere out there, the emperor Marcus Aurelius watches as teenagers write to each other like inbred africans and discuss his writings
IMO if there is any part of the human mind that survives death i doubt it is anything "personal" "individual"
anyways that got me thinking about the diffrent parts of the mind
most people when they read and think will hear a "voice" in their head yall are probably hearing this voice as your read this take a moment to consider what this voice is
is it you?
is it your ego?
is it your personal helper created by your mind to make reading and thinking more graspable?
but this isent what raises the most questions
what part is it that listens? what function does it fill what does it contribute?
most people will go through their entire life with out ever questioning what their mind is actually made up of how could you understand something if you dont know what components its made out of
anyways if you dont know what these parts are you already know the words for them i can promise you that you just havent figured out thats what the words represent
(note not all people will have a hear a voice when they think or read it is very common for dyslexic people to lack this ofc you dont have to dyslexic if you lack it)
last but not least im getting kinda tired so migth not make so much sens
TL:DR you are going to have to read it
the man is a slave of things that are not his choice, eating, drinking, progeny, survival in general as a species. giving it no value means denial of our existence.
therefore in its form a man can never achieve freedom. a truly free man can never be a man, and if we are not human what are we?
the freedom we imagine is in a state we imagine with the attributes we imagine, never in a state that is given, the form that is given and the attributes that are given.
we are predestined to seek fullfilment in what we know is unabtainable, in abstract values not inherent to nature, religion, faith, God.
>>468938
Would I? How much other freedoms would I give up? What would my credit score look like? What kind of job would I have to have to afford that?
Hell, what if I were omnipotent? I can't even understand the kind of things I'd be enslaved to if I had UNLIMITED POWER.
But.... I know what you meant. And you're right, but hell. This is a kind of freedom, and it lets me have other very nice things, like put up with retarded treatments that fail half the time, and not get bogged down my the circumstances. Sure, I might not be omnipotent, or very potent at all, on the grand scheme of things.
But isn't it better to be this kind of free, than bemoan the logical impossibility of another kind of freedom?
>>468948
>we are predestined to seek fullfilment in what we know is unabtainable, in abstract values not inherent to nature, religion, faith, God.
we are predestined to seek fullfilment in what we fight to become obtainable, science, technology, transcendence
>>468948
>>468955
this idea was inherent to all religions.
however only in the last century, have we begun to actively pursue it.
>>468945
On the mind:
>Individual: Often called the “Agent”. In Evangelion-terms, “the Me that Observes”. It makes the ultimate calls about how the mind moves, and is the fundamental “I” in anarcho-stoicism. the line between Individual and Mind is blurry, but the Individual can be said to “sit” in the mind. The Individual can control the Mind, but this is often difficult.
>The Mind: The sum of impressions, perceptions, emotions, thoughts, opinions, decisions and intuitions experienced by the Individual. Literally, the neurons firing in your braincase. The mind can be thought of as a floating, watery thing with the Individual in the center. However, it can also be deliberately given form and even direction by its Individual.
AT LEAST, THATS HOW I LIKE TO SEE IT.
>>468974
Even transhumans will be slaves if they can't attain Stoic self-control.
>>468949
You've got a good point, but nearly all of this conversation keeps goig back to the first things i said, that real freedom is impossible, because that waould require omnipotence, and omnipotence is a paradox.
You did enlighten me about stoicism, i never spend time to think about your kind of freedom. My girlfriend is kinda like that sometimes, though i actually feel bad comparing her ability to ignore canon stuff she dislikes in works of fiction to your situation.
>>468977
>Even transhumans will be slaves if they can't attain Stoic self-control.
stoicism, or for better, control of your own emotional being is if not the first principle for any further development. the emotion comes from instinct, a sophistication of basic drives and desires, shaped by our own system of values that evolved as our social interaction evolved. a man not in control of his emotions is regressing, not progressing.
this however has become common sense in most of todays society.
>>468980
Nah, that's actually a great example! Stoicism is all about ignoring the stuff you don't like, even if it's canon.
>>469002
>the emotion comes from instinct, a sophistication of basic drives and desires, shaped by our own system of values that evolved as our social interaction evolved. a man not in control of his emotions is regressing, not progressing.
basically what you are saying, if the instinct is predestined to the human as a species. understanding and controling it enables us to perceive our shackles, thus act upon our predestined lack of freedom of choice. if the choice was never given, it should also be understood as irrelevant to my psychological well being.
>>469015
Cool, I'll tell her about it.
Can't say I hope you get better, but I sure do hope your life gets any sort of awesome for you. Going to sleep now, bye anon.
>>469024
>if the choice was never given, it should also be understood as irrelevant to my psychological well being.
exactly
>>469028
I probably gonna get another 20 years.
I'm gonna find a beautiful white woman, have two strong boys without those pesky x-chromosome autoimmune conditions, then die.
Wish me luck, anon. I hope you make it too.
>>468977
>Consciousness : the part that is aware, recives inputs from its surroundings filters it/processes it turns it into emotions, thoughts, opinions and intuitions and in turn makes these it into decisions and actions all living things with a brain have this, plants probably have it to, it is proven that (forgot wich tree) will notice when its leaves gets eaten and then brodcasts to other trees in its vicinity of the same species wich makes them fill their leaves with more poison
>Subconsciousness : the part that listens, records all that wich the consciousness does and experinces, it is the part that makes connections, forms ideas, sees solutions, it never activly thinks of a idea, make a connection or a solution it merely supplies the information needed to the consciousness and allows it to form the tought, this part is what sets humans apart from all animals, most animals lack it but some migth have it crows for example but our subconsciousness is way more powerfull
>think about it most revelations you have you never think off, all of the sudden it is just there in your "minds eye" and then you form a tought around it, put words to it
AT LEAST, THATS HOW I LIKE TO SEE IT.
>>469073
Forgot to add pretty similar to your way of seeing it
>>468570
this thread redpilled me about a lot of stuff, like not giving a fuck about the girl I was stalking not answering my tweets.
>>468556
even lamorghinis
To live a virtuous life, according to nature.
>>468438
water, good dentishtry and shoft lavatory paper
>>470626
>water, good dentishtry and shoft lavatory paper
extremely underrated
Also I like you.
You are ok.
Beer and titties
>>468498
Well it can be answered, just not objectively. I can say "sex", and that would be true for me, but then someone else might say that's degenerate and that family is the best.
Its called "conversation".
>>468438
The open steppe, fleet horse, falcons at your wrist, and the wind in your hair.
>>468438
not joking, but the first few months of the show "Parovi"(pic related) in the least raised those questions and answered a huge chunk of it.
>>468438
Feeling good about yourself and your actions.
EXCELLENCE IN ONE'S PURSUITS
>>468570
Thanks for not contributing and instead whining about it like a passive aggressive faggot then. Youre helping
>>468438
I have a better question
A real man, real in all the ways we recognize as real, finds himself suddenly abstracted from the world and deposited in a physical situation which could not possibly exist: sounds have aroma, smells have color and depth, sights have texture, touches have pitch and timbre. There he is informed by a disembodied voice that he has been brought to that place as a champion for his world. He must fight to the death in single combat against a champion from another world. If he is defeated, he will die, and his world, the real world, will be destroyed because it lacks the inner strength to survive.
The man refuses to believe what he is told is true. He asserts that he is either dreaming or hallucinating, and declines to be put in the false position of fighting to the death where no "real" danger exists. He is implacable in his determination to disbelieve his apparent situation, and does not defend himself when he is attacked by the champion of the other world.
Is the man's behavior courageous or cowardly?
>>471995
>The man refuses to believe what he is told is true.
If the man does not believe in what could possibly not exist, he by reason acts in what he beholds as true.
>>472012
>what could possibly not exist
Do you by any chance mean
>what could not possibly exist
?
>>468438
Power.
>>472023
yes that is exactly what I meant, thanks for the correction
>>468438
Dopamin
