It was a few decades earlier when the industrial revolution started in England.

Would you rather leaders be chosen depending if they were men of breeding?
you know those men of breeding got to be aristos because, well, THEY WERE RICH

>>467538
To explain: the ideas you loathe so much started not because of some Jacobins, but because the aristocracy was already being eroded by the new captains of industry and business. A process that started in England.

>>467544
>you know those men of breeding got to be aristos because, well, THEY WERE RICH

That's a gross simplification. Nobody simply became an aristocrat because they were rich (that would be a bourgeois and not an aristocrat), and if they were rich they became so due to their position.

>>467569
aristocrats have their titles due to the lands they were given and/or inherited and grew rich due to the agricultural produce those lands could put out

that shit only flew when like 70% of any given country's GDP was agricultural plus that would lock in France as being king shit Euro power all over again and maybe a united Italy because of the Po River Valley

what kind of preindustrial world are we supposed to fly back to

>>467548

The english model is entirely different to the french model.

England saw a gradualistic shift towards enlightenment ideals like natural rights while also preserving some modicum of social stratification, and as a result they remained stable and the beacon of the western world for pretty much a century, only being undone because the cancer unleashed by France finally infected them, too.

France meanwhile was extraordinarily repressive as an absolute monarchy, and this triggered a complete pendulum shift in the opposite direction, revolution over reform, and I feel like we're all worse off because of it.

liberal democracy, communism, socialism and fascism are all children of the same mother and I think they all suck dick to varying degrees.

>>467569
>Nobody simply became an aristocrat because they were rich
Nobles of the robe.

mic drop

You miss the importance of the enlightenment in European history. It was the liberal, free thinking, scientific investigation that brought about huge advances, the free flow of ideas and almost nothing (De Sade) off-limits. Contrast that with Spain where the inquisition set the limits and it remained in the Dark Ages til the 20th century.

Although much of what passes for the history of the US war of independence is myth there is no denying the resulting powerful effect of the ideas put forward by Voltaire and Thomas Paine

>>467583
>what kind of preindustrial world are we supposed to fly back to
It's all very idealist, but reversing globalization by reintroducing protectionism, tariffs, borders, autarky, and agrarianism - all while focusing on local markets

The Industrial Revolution was a gift and a curse

>>467534
Depends. Without the French Revolution, the West would have never dominated the world to the degree it did, but it would be sustainable in the long term. Industrialization would also not be so brutal globally, but would come way slowly.

I think the French Revolution version of equality of opportunity is a much better form than the current version of equality of outcome.

>>467599
Nobles of the robe got ennobled thanks to their education and administrative power, not wealth.

>>467812
>Nobles of the robe got ennobled thanks to their education and administrative power
ha ha ha oh wow.

>not wealth
Sure sure, and the bribes required to fabricate a lineage came from air.

>>467866
>assblasted about basic facts

>>467874
>assblasted
>facts
>prior class background of most of the robe
>reasons for robing them

Mate, you've no hope with quals.
Then again you don't know what quals are.

Why is the French Revolution criticized but the American Revolution, which succeeded a decade earlier and inspired the French revolutionaries, never brought up?

Without American Independence the French Revolution wouldn't have happened. Is it because the French had a more retarded idea of liberty and equality than the Americans?

>>467889
Do you even know what the 'robe' refers to?

>>467892
America wasn't really big about equality to begin with. For all purposes it was an aristocratic republic.

>>467902
The Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights are pretty radical, egalitarian documents though. In theory if not in practice.

>>467919
How so?

>>467896
Yes, and it wasn't a merit system. It was a way of pulling the administrative bourgeoisie into the Versailles system.

>>467943
>We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

>>467943
The Aristocracy, lesser nobility and gentry of the United States were legally equal and concepts of status before law weren't admitted.

We should have stuck with Athenian democracy.

>>467584
You're right, it is different. But those social afflictions in France were largely stimulated by English problems.

It's not as if the French ideals were created in a vacuum. A repressive regime sure isn't enough to spawn these ideals. It seems the only truly new environmental change was an industrializing economy.

Started to go wrong when Rome collapsed