Discuss Chinese characters.
Should Korea and Vietnam revive Chinese characters?
Should East Asia adopt simplified Chinese as the standard, or stick with traditional Chinese?
This doesn't belong here
>>>/int/
>>459173
If anything they should adopt latin like Vietnamese or some form of very simplified local alphabet like the Koreans
>>459173
>Should Korea and Vietnam revive Chinese characters?
Depends, what will they be losing?
Will their sense of identity be lost and a large part of their history be forgotten? If so, maybe, if not, it probably wasn't worth keeping in the first place.
Should East Asia adopt simplified Chinese as the standard?
Hell no
Keep with traditional, Especially if they have different grammar rules.
I don't know why they made simplified in the first place, and changing it would only be a sign of Chinese propaganda working.
>>459173
the chinese language sounds gross to me so no
>>459345
>Keep with traditional, Especially if they have different grammar rules.
Are you retarded? Simplified and Traditional are both the same thing. They just have different strokes.
They should all use Romanized script. Follow Turkey's example.
>>459354
U realize hanzi is a writing system not the way things are pronounced right? What you just said would be like someone saying they don't like Cyrillic cause it sounds bad. It makes no sense
>>459426
>>459435
Your hurting my feelings :(
>>459494
Chink detected
>>459507
>implying that wasn't obvious from my earlier posts
>>459173
Simplified is way better than traditional. If Mao did one thing right it was getting rid of millions of useless strokes in the writing system.
>>459524
Yeah it's way quicker
>>459376
>Simplified and Traditional are both the same thing. They just have different strokes.
Are you being willfully ignorant or are you just blind?
>>461151
The grammars don't change at all you fucking retarded alcohol fetal syndrome cunt
Do the Japanese use the simplified Characters today?
>>461170
THE GRAMMAR DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING
REPLACING THE LATIN ALPHABET WITH CYRILLIC IF YOU'RE A BRIT SPEAKING ENGLISH IN BRITAIN IS COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.
>>459173
Vietnam ought to revive it back given their romanization scheme is ultimately superfucked.
>Tran = Pronounced "Chan"
>Trung = "Chung"
fuck that shit.
>>461244
Nah, they inhabit a weird world where they use traditional + their own syllabaric script.
Both Korea and Vietnam use more efficient writing systems.
>>461594
It's not even that though. It'd be like changing the letter Z to be drawn without the top line to simplify it. It's not a new alphabet, just less lines to draw and people usually know how to read traditional anyway since its still common on old texts.
>>461151
6 years of chinese here
you're actually a complete dumbass
>>463538
I'm not talking about chinese
I'm talking about other languages changing their text when it does nothing and can actually confuse people who always knew the old system.
>>463481
>It's not a new alphabet, its just changing what the letters look like?
So its a new alphabet
>people usually know how to read traditional anyway since its still common on old texts.
So did many Korean scribes i'm guessing soon after Hangul was made
Could you tell me how much Hanja is used day to day by the common people now? or how literate the common person is in Hanja?
>>459173
Chinese characters are dandy for languages like Mandarin, where you only need a working knowledge of about ~4000 words for normal life. As an aggulnative language, individual words are usually represented by just one distinct syllable, which is perfectly suited for characters.
Korean is a language isolate that benefits GREATLY from Hangul, which has all the consonants and vowels specifically tailored for Korean's more familiar multisylaballic words. Back when they used Chinese characters, learning to read as a layman was riding on impossibility.
为什么这里有怎么多的中国人?
Vietnamese here. I notice a lot of Vietnamese words sound similar to to Chinese. I wouldn't mind learning Chu Nom (Chinese style characters for Vietnamese), but the problem with Chu Nom is that it's been abandoned for over 200 years now and it's a pain to write. It would be a nearly impossible task reteaching an entire population a much more complicated alphabet.
I wish I can learn all the East Asian languages. Our languages (Vietnamese, Chinese, Korean, and Japanese) share some similarities in linguistics.
>>464246
>Chu Nom
You'd better learn it if you want to be a useful historian.
>>459173
>Should Korea and Vietnam revive Chinese characters?
No, but if Koreans and Vietnamese want to use them then whatever.
>Should East Asia adopt simplified Chinese as the standard, or stick with traditional Chinese?
If they want to use Hanzi, no reason they can't use simplified for public writing and traditional for fancy/ritual writing.
>>464246
>no viet qt gf
>>464156
sci更多吧。这里的人都不怎么有学问。
>>464305
这是4chan,没人有他妈的什么学问。
>>464315
>HUR WHAT IS CONTEXT
When I said the grammar doesn't mean anything, I meant it in the context that it doesn't matter in the "alphabet"
Like I said if you tried to write English in Cyrillic, it wouldn't do much.
When I said that they should keep it, I meant that they shouldn't change their writing system just because the Chinese did it, especially if they have different grammar rules or linguistic differences, because when you have developed new words and symbols from your language over the course of your history, it would be cultural suicide to try and change it all at once to something from another language.
>>464156
Ayy, 4chan 很难找到用简体字的人。你是中国人吗?
>>461170
>The grammars don't change at all you fucking retarded alcohol fetal syndrome cunt
Actually, classical Mandarin is quite different from modern Mandarin in terms of pronunciation and grammar.
>>464624
Old mandarin is different from new Mandarin, but Taiwanese grammar and Mainland China grammar are the same except for some small differences. Accents are different tho.
t. 我可以说中文
>>464615
北京来的
>>463637
>comparing the Korean change from traditional Chinese characters to an actual alphabet to the Chinese simplifying their existing alphabet
Are you being retarded on purpose now?
hanzi is a meme script.
it's objectively a bad writing system. calling it 'poor' is understating how terrible it is. it is one of the worst writing systems ever conceived by mankind. starry-eyed weeaboos will vehemently deny it, but actual scholars of chinese and asian languages are in near universal agreement at its inferiority.
chinese and other asians, deep down, know this. they understand that any system that required 12 years of study to achieve basic fluency in, and a lifetime of study to master, is inferior to a system like hangul, which can literally be mastered in a single day. but asians stubbornly cling to the script out of a misplaced sense of tradition and pride in their otherness.
mao and other revolutionaries even blamed china's subjugation to the west on its high level of illiteracy, and they placed the blame for that squarely on hanzi. simplified hanzi were meant to be just a step on the road to a proper, modern writing system, one like pinyin or hangul. that never happened because traditionalists balked at the thought of further modernisation. the same is true in the rest of asia. hangul took hundreds of years to find widespread use in korea, *literally* because the educated classes looked down on hangul as too easy. they literally mocked the fact that hangul could be completely learned by even a dimwit within 10 days.
in other words the reasons that hanzi survived in their societies is completely down to elitism rather than down to any positive quality of the writing system, since it has no positive qualities. nowadays it survived due to another kind of elitism, cultural elitism. taiwan looks down at mainland china. mainland china looks down at everyone not chinese. japan looks down on the rest of asia. even south korea still uses thousands of hanja intermixed with hangul, and literally the only reason is to feel a sense of superiority over north korea, which has converted entirely to hangul.
http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/moser.html
>>461614
Viet fag here. Thats how the northern people speak. Northern folks basically cannot pronouce 'r' and 'tr'. Central and southern vietnamese pronounce 'tran" as it is
>>465184
>Thats how the northern people speak.
That's how it was originally meant to be pronounced. Vietnamese is heavily influenced by Chinese.
>>465148
As a guy with family using both traditional and simplified Chinese (and being the only one with English as the mother tongue), this guy gets it.
>>461788
The simplification is very minor compared to China lol
>>464353
There are no grammar rules to Chinese characters... Each character is a world.
>>465148
Well, China could have used Indic Scripts like Southeast Asia but did not. This is because learning Chinese characters was a good way for the higher classes to maintain control as it is a system where only the highly educated could read.
Now that China is regaining its position as world power, Hanzí will be useful in keeping the rest of the world under China's shoe
>>461151
>>459345
>I don't know why they made simplified in the first place
Probably to make the language easier to learn to read. Traditional is beautiful but god damn it's a pain to learn to write and read. When I was learning Chinese, knowing something like 5000 words was considered proficiency. As opposed to Latin script where you can just build an infinite number of words and sound them out.
>>465184
Also Viet here. Why are people from hue so weird when they speak? Like it's just hue people who make everything use the heavy tone
>>465785
>Well, China could have used Indic Scripts like Southeast Asia but did not. This is because learning Chinese characters was a good way for the higher classes to maintain control as it is a system where only the highly educated could read.
>Now that China is regaining its position as world power, Hanzí will be useful in keeping the rest of the world under China's shoe
I agree with this.
Spanish and English are so simple even the burden of white men can pick up in one or two generations. German on the other hand never took roots anywhere.
Chinese script really is a system of control in the Foucaultian discursive sense. Before 19th century, 文言文(wenyanwen) is even more difficult to understand than simplified Chinese( Latin fell into disuse for the same reason). 科举(keju) or imperial exam draws liberally and exclusively on ancient texts such as 《诗经》、《大学》. It serves the function as GRE vocab and internalizes the values and morals into those who want to join the highest caste in the Confucian system 士农工商
1 Government Officials
2 Farmers
3 Crafts
4 Merchants
Chinese is really good for puns.
Westerners can't understand Chinese internet culture.
>>466788
Mate, you need to say it proper fuck it:
Gweilo cunts cant into th bantz
>>465148
>it's objectively a bad writing system. calling it 'poor' is understating how terrible it is. it is one of the worst writing systems ever conceived by mankind. starry-eyed weeaboos will vehemently deny it, but actual scholars of chinese and asian languages are in near universal agreement at its inferiority.
chinese is "objectively good" at being amazing cryptographic tool for this reason
if your nation's language is easy to learn you're not doing national security right
>>461151
汁
I thought that's tāng
>>465816
lol, Im from Hue here and I love my accent. Its because we have a special vocabulary, quite different from other regions.
The Hue tone is not heavy but quite light actually since we speak really fast and skip words frequently and that creates the accent. So people from Hue have no trouble to understand each other. But when we talk to ppl from other regions, we always try to pronounce words fully hence the lower speed and the heavy tone.
If you really want a heavy tone, try find people from Nghe An or Quang Nam. Generally, the region from Nghe An to Quang Tri is known for the heavy tone. The Hue accent is actually quite smooth and light, but for Hue people to understand only.
>>465191
> That's how it was originally meant to be pronounced. Vietnamese is heavily influenced by Chinese..
I dont care. Language is where Argumentum ad populum applies anyway.
I hate the northern accent. It sounds extremely hypocritical and untrustworthy. Whenever I hear a northerner speaks, I got an impression that he's trying to scam or sell me something.
Throughout history, Northern Vietnamese have always been considered as opportunists, hypocrites, marketers, advertisers and propagandists.
>>464737
蛤,之前在华语区的几个匿名版发的链接奏效了吗
>>459173
>Should Korea and Vietnam revive Chinese characters?
Fucking why. Hangul actually makes sense in the digital age and isn't a total bitch to typeset.
>>463679
>can't spell agglutinative
also
>Chinese
>agglutinating language
You mean analytic, right anon?
>>459173
>Should East Asia adopt simplified Chinese as the standard, or stick with traditional Chinese?
East asia should adopt an alphabet system because their shit is all retarded.
>>459173
>Should East Asia adopt simplified Chinese as the standard, or stick with traditional Chinese?
Stick with traditional, maybe simplify some, that actually make sense. Like 囯 instead of 国 and 國 or 学 instead of 學.
>>465809
As a foreigner learning Mandarin I actually found it easier to memorize Traditional characters because I only need to memorize the radicals, which is less than 200 characters to be able to guess the meaning and sound of characters I have never seen before.
>>459524
>>459538
>>464156
>>464305
>>464615
>>464737
>>470811
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>>471792
>>466777
China should implement Zhuyin, at least when it comes to foreign words. Because writing phonetics with characters are tedious as fuck, and usually confuse the fuck out of me when I read chink texts.
