Were Swiss mercenaries really all that? Wiki says they dominated the field of battle, but according to Rousseau they were so prone to desertion that they had to be banned from singing their traditional music, lest they get nostalgic for their homelands and run away.
more importanty - why the fuck he doesn't wear any shoes?
>>454057
Their prime had already passed during Rosseau times.
>>454065
Urs Graf was a mercenary and doodler
He liked to draw pictures of warriors and prostitutes. This is a German Landsknecht, the Swiss Pikemen's rival, being fucked up the ass by Satan.
Are Swiss mercenaries Landsknecht?
>>454156
>being fucked up the ass by Satan.
that seems very unlikely given the legs positions
>>454065
>why the fuck he doesn't wear any shoes?
Most swiss wouldn't wear shoes during warm months up to the start of the 20th century, especially country side.
>visiting Grandparents farm, I'm like 10 years old
>it is summer, I wear shoes
>eyebrows raised everywhere
>spoiled brat
For your question,
Independence wars shaped the Swiss, it united them, gave them a government structure and taught them tactics that should rule the battlefields for the next two centuries.
Zurich war consolidated the Swiss and gave France an early warning of what was coming down, they where smart enough to take the hint and became our best best friend ever since up to Napoleon.
Burgundian war was also flawless and ended with the total destruction of the Dutchy of Burgundy, the horrible death or the Archduke and the end of his name and whole house. This war was the first time the Swiss rolled united and full scale. It changed the balance of power in Europe and gave the Swiss their reputation.
Finest example of Swiss warfare was the Swabian War, Switzerland 7:0 Holy Roman Empire, Switzerland went de facto Independent and Swiss and Swabians have a very special relation to this very day.
The swiss went into the transalpine wars, took some turf (oh hello Ticino), time did catch up with them and for a first time they where beaten at Marignano and it went down ever since.
The reason Swiss soldiers where used is simple, you could buy them by the Regiment, ready made for instant use. Soldiering was an industry in Switzerland, to many children, not enough land. Women died in childbed, man died abroad. Soldiers came dressed, armed, drilled and well disciplined, and as long as you would pay them they'd fight for you.
Since 1848 no gun has been fired in anger in Switzerland, and today with have a toy soldier army just for the keks
>>454238
>Are Swiss mercenaries Landsknecht?
Nope, they are Reisläufer (One who goes to war), Landsknecht where HRE. Check the Swabian war for more details.
Switzerland had been known for its mercenary tradition since the Middle Ages. It is estimated that between 1400 and 1848 more than two million Swiss mercenaries were employed by foreign powers.
Initially mercenaries tended to be recruited for single campaigns by private entrepreneurs. From the mid-17th century mercenary units started to be integrated into standing armies, which were also being established at that time.
Mercenary service was strictly regulated, and under the control of the cantonal governments.
Under Napoleon the nature of Swiss military service was fundamentally changed; it was no longer the outcome of agreements entered into by the two sides, but became an obligation imposed on Switzerland.
>>454249
>Reisläufer
Always found that fun since in modern high german that would literally mean "rice runner"
>>454246
Great post
>>454453
Comes from Reise which today just means travel, but back then meant war business and Laufen (to walk) so it simply meant mercenary.
>>454651
>>454658
>>454246
cheers mate
>>454057
>according to Rousseau
So you already know it's bullshit
>>454057
Geen geld, geen Zwitsers
No money, no Swiss
Ye ol' Dutch proverb
>>457339
>So you already know it's bullshit
It was actually a romantic picture about the Swiss abroad, longing for his beloved mountains. Rousseau's the noble wild thingey. The song in question likely was the Guggisberglied: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN0PS9yHoaY
>>454511
I know that, I just mean "literal" in a modern sense
>>457710
>I know that, I just mean "literal" in a modern sense
No it doesn't, at least not in Swiss German, "Reis" (yes, no e ) means travel, Riis means rice.
Get your language sorted out senpai, tv-german and the loss of dialects is an awful thing to happen to the German language.
>>457723
bump
>>454057
Well Rousseau had an agenda.
>>454246
Man it sure sucks not being born swiss. Them alps will never be mine. cheers
>>457723
Are you retarded, I said modern high german aka dialect-free high german, any way that was just a literal meaning in modern sense as a joke, you twat
>>457793
Stop getting mad, ya dink.
>>454057
>but according to Rousseau
I say, is there anything decent whatsoever within all of his works? This guy was bullshit central.
>>454057
They won battles, but they WERE prone to up and leaving beforehand.
>>458439
>I say, is there anything decent whatsoever within all of his works? This guy was bullshit central.
I thought I was the only one that thought this.
>>454246
>and today with have a toy soldier army just for the keks
Reminds me of this. Switzerland is amazing. The literal "fuck you, it's cool" nation
>>454246
>our best friend ever
Yeah, no. The eternal neutrality was a DIRECT result of a severe ass beating at the hands of the gendarmes in italy.
>>459522
dubs of truth
>the Italians and frogs stomped the ever living fuck out the swiss
>>454246
Thanks for that informative post friend.
>>459536
Actually, it was frogs and germans.
>>457480
Yes, but Rousseau was a total bullshitter who developed a philosophy solely to justify being a shitty father to his bastards. Nothing he said was remotely based on fact.
>>459571
>Actually, it was frogs and germans.
Actually it was firearms. The Swiss ruled the battlefields of Europe with their tactics, until the technical advance of firearms made them obsolete.
They kept the turf they conquered, until today there is a French an an Italian speaking part of Switzerland and Soldiering for other nations continued for another 300 years.
>>460539
They got pinned in place by germans with pikes and fucking hammered in the flansk with gendarmes.
And yes, torn up with cannon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marignano
There are firsthand accounts of the cavalry attacks on the swiss.
Interesting stuff. Bayard didn't expect to live through the battle.
>>460578
Look, the Swiss did pioneer large unit tactics with unit cohesion on the battlefield. They where able to move large units of infantry swiftly over the battlefield. That was their unique feature and what made them great for the time.
As soon as the rest of Europe caught up with that they where done for, every other nation could field more people then them. that plus improved firepower which is devastating for large and tight formations. And since they where not invincible anymore they gave up their expansion politics.
>>459484
I'm firmly liberal but I agree.
>>460633
The article states flat out that getting beaten like a red headed stepchild is the reason they stopped fighting france.
Why are you trying to argue this?
>>454057
Their chief strength was a total disregard for their own lives. The part of their brain responsible for self preservation is replaced with Swiss clockwork on birth.
In all battles they lost there were usually the last to leave the field in good proper order while the rest of the army was routing, that said they made some blunders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cerignola
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bicocca
They essentially the French Knight equivalent of infantry.
Wherever I go, I must also charge. Even if it's a 9 foot high earth wall.
>>454246
I hate you for ending the Burgundians desu.
That said Charles had it coming and I don't think there has ever been a general with worse luck/reconnaissance than him, never noticed the Swiss until there were 10.000 of them lubing his asshole.
>>461637
Because they where at the same time fighting for France. The big catastrophe was that Swiss soldiers killed Swiss soldiers en masse, that what shocked people most. Besides, sorry if I believe I know it better than the english wiki article, but yeah, I do. In the end it was a lot of reasons coming together that sopped the Swiss expansion, the most important one where internal, struggles between Berne which was dominant at the time and other cantons.
And again for the tactics, after 1515, pretty much everybody was either copying or advancing even further in battlefield tactics and the Swiss unique advantage was gone.
>>461658
Charles left his entire treasury in Switzerland, which was a blessing, it solved most of Switzerland social issues for centuries (Stanser Verkommnis). But yes, he pissed everybody off including Austria and Lorraine, and then had the glorious idea of invading Switzerland. He asked for it. Btw, he died in the battle Nancy in Lorraine, not even in Switzerland.
The duke of Lorraine sent his cavalry as aid to the Swiss (which had almost none), in exchange they gave him troops to reclaim Lorraine.
>>462375
I know I know.
Nancy looks like a death wish battle on paper.
>>462437
>Nancy looks like a death wish battle on paper.
Yes and no, up to that time warfare was different, he thought he had the knights and the welsh bowmen and the italian mercers, and he'd win or at least get away from it alive.
