What can you tell me about the aztecs?
Got most of their protein from bugs
>>443493
>>443493
Weren't they conquered and enslaved by Spain
>>443496
Plants have protein.
>>443499
Why do they wear the masks?
>>443493
Nobody liked them. Nobody missed them.
>>443493
They too much love their kings, and too weak to blackmails.
>>443512
>>443520
A lot of people sacrificed.
>>443493
Pretty cool if you leave out all that ritualistic killing and empire building.
>>443529
>>443533
At minor they does that only with xenos, not like as Frenchmen
>>443553
You should use Google Translate instead.
Now I can understand conquest for natural sources, human sources or ideals but conquest for more people to sacrifice sounds pretty hardcore.
>>443587
>Not wanting to appease Huitzilopochtli
>Not wanting good weather and high crop yields
>>443553
>At minor
Lol
>>443512
>>443520
I want to see this overlaid a map of Mexico City
>>443659
Enjoy
>>443659
Wait I made a mistake, here's the actual overlay
>>443659
No wait, the first one was right
Here's a better version
>>443659
>>443722
Crap, forgot pic
>>443515
From what I understand, that's what brought their downfall in the first place.
Cortez didn't win with ~500 conquistadores. He won with his conquistadores supported by tens of thousands of pissed off natives who wanted revenge on the Aztecs for the near constant wars they were waging to get captives for sacrifices.
>>443727
>>443659
My bad, that last one was wrong also.
Ok, here's the real deal
>>443740
I mostly buy into that history, but I have to be honest, it still seems RIDICULOUSLY good luck.
Is it really that common to journey to another country and just fucking topple everything just by your mere presence? Like literally, what? I can't think of many credible analogues in the entirety of history. Maybe when Brits invaded India?
>>443493
>Aztecs with pyramid
Oh boy, here we go again.
WE
>>443767
They just happened to stumble upon a region whose "peace" was held together by an incredibly delicate balance of power that the Spanish fucked up.
India seems like it's roughly the same situation, although that was more playing local powers off of eachother for quite some time to cement British dominance, whereas the conquest of the Aztecs seems like Cortez stumbled into a situation where literally everyone hated the one major power, and all it took was one leader to galvanize resistance to topple them.
>>443815
What gave the conquistadors the moxie to win that level of buy-in, though? It's a classic tragedy of the commons: everyone hates the big stick, but no one is willing to risk being the first to say so, so they all suffer for a long time.
Along comes Cortez and says the big stick sucks, and everyone else doesn't wait to see if he gets chopped down to size, they fucking jump on board!
I think there must have been a near-religious awe of the conquistadors for this to happen.
>>443760
Where'd the lake go?
Can I call Mexico City Tenochtitlan instead? Aztec words are fun to say.
>>443994
Dried out
>>443944
Well remember that Cortez was overconfident to the point of insanity. He literally burned his ships so that his men were stuck there with him for the duration of the campaign. The fact that various religious prophecies made the natives think he was a god (IIRC, could be wrong) really helped as well.
He just lucked out and stumbled into a situation where that worked out. Anywhere else, it would have been something akin to Custer's last stand.
>>443999
>Aztec words are fun to say.
You sure about that?
>>443514
UUUU
>>443514
It would be extremely painful
Were the Aztec ladies qt's?
they are ugly.
>>443767
Spaniards did a similar thing again in the Andes, though there the dynastic fight and the plague helped more than foreigner kingdoms or internal discontent.
Anyways, as far as I know the "divide and rule" thing is a constant in History, not something that should surprize you. Cortés is just one of it's more impressive examples.
>>443740
Same thing happened in Perú but Pizarro arrived in the Middle of a civil war
>>444095
Pure blooded natives still exist in thr southern parts of Mexico. My answer is no, by and large.
>>443944
>"everyone hates the big stick, but no one is willing to risk being the first to say so, so they all suffer for a long time"
No or, at least, not for the most important actors here apart from mexicas and spaniards: the Tlaxcaltecs. Imagine if the big stick comes to beat you but let's you live, because he wants to be able to beat you any time he wants. You can do nothing about it but resist, only sometimes with success.
The main ally of Cortés was Tlaxcala, an independent native realm completely surrounded by the Aztecs. The mexicas never conquered it, both because it difficult to finish them and because the aztec concept of religious war made it desirable to have foes close ot Tenochtitlan. Of course, the Tlaxcaltecs were not so happy about the situation besides for not being conquered, and used the first opportunity they had to destroy their much more stronger enemies.
>>444121
sure, but it's the magnitude of the conquest that in this case comes nigh close to unbelievability. It's just nuts that he got the support he did. As others have posited, there must have been things going for him that really increased his moxie (insane egotism, religious beliefs of the natives, etc).
By the way, can you even imagine being one of the cliff dwellers a few hundred miles to the north when all this shit went down? You can't even fucking understand how powerful the Aztecs were. Then you hear about these horse-men gods coming from across the sea and wiping the Aztecs out in just a few years. What the fuck do you even think at that point?
>>444140
You're ignoring how the pure gene pool is affected by free access to the rest of mexico's gene pool. What kind of people are going to stay in the pure gene pool?
Also, the effect of modern diet and lifestyle on their aesthetics
>>444176
>because the aztec concept of religious war made it desirable to have foes close ot Tenochtitlan
Suddenly the map of the aztec empire makes sense
They ripped peoples hearts out of their chests, the maniacs
>>444034
I really find funny how people is handwaving lately what cortez did.
He played with the local powers, destroyed native armies like the Tarascans or Tlaxcalans with some hundreds of mens and 16 horses when the later were counted in decens of thousands, and then allied with the Aztec enemies like La Malinche to translate,using them to transport things like the River Brigantines than he later used to siege Tenochtitlan or fight the Aztecs. Also nearly all the polis of meso america were allied to the Aztecs or were in treaties with them and lots of them had to be conquered one to one or were neutral only after the Spaniards sieged Tenochtitlan, . Also how Cortez played Moctezuma was pretty kekworthy living six months or so in tenochtitlan and treated like a demi god. He comited plenty of errors like giving comand to Alvaredo in tenochtitlan when he played Narvaez than ended with the killing of nobles and the Noche triste than only survived thanks to the battle of Otumba where the thousand Tlaxcalans, the surviving Spaniards and six horses won vs all the Aztecs could throw at them or comited some atrocities like mass enslavement of Aztec allies after they were defeated but really he is one of the most important conquerors ever.
>>445130
>but really he is one of the most important conquerors ever.
He conquered a civilization that was far less technologically advanced.
He was shooting muskets at people who were using clubs with sharp bits of obsidian attached to them as weapons.
>>445175
Muskets were mostly useless in the Americas, Crossbows, steel and horses with total war tactics were far more important. Early guns weren't gatlings, you were lucky to hit something at more than 20m or to shot without a misfire. Plus you can see the size of the Pre-columbine armies, Maize is a miracle crop than made possible such massive populations like meso americans ones, pair this with some very sophisticated societies very ordered or with what little resources Cortez started and is pretty incredible how well he played his cards.
>>445209
Alright, replace muskets with crossbows, steel, horses and tactics.
>>444095
When they're young they look exactly like eastern asians do, but as they get older they somehow end up looking more like men
t. mexican
>>443493
they spoke nahuatl which is cool.
>>443502
I think it was more the European diseases that brought them down
>>443514
Burial masks I think.
>>444301
are you advocating for inbreeding?
>>443514
>tfw there's no Aztec CIA
We need to start this fire big guys. Have Bane as Cortez and CIA as Moctezuma.
>>444037
Tleilaxu fucking shits REEEEEEEEEEEE
>>444176
>the aztec concept of religious war made it desirable to have foes close ot Tenochtitlan.
source?
Well congratulations, you landed inside our empire! Now what's the next step of your master plan!?
>>448200
Crushing this Empire... with no survivors!
>>448200
Have we started the fire don Hernan?
The fire rises brother. But our ships won't
>>448200
They work for the conquistador, the helmetta man.
Spain?
They were all African Americans
>>447267
What? No, if anything the opposite. Reread the post
>>443493
Really fucking brutal conquerors even by Mesoamerican standards.
Seriously, everyone fucking hated these guys.
I can talk a bit about their ideas of Human Sacrifice.
Europeans immediately are repulsed by the idea but in reality their theological reasoning is not to far from our own faiths, especially when you understand why the Human was so important as a sacrifice.
In Europe often the primary sacrifice one can give was the Bull, we see the bull motif going back millennia and into other regions like India and the middle east. for the hunter, the Bull was the ultimate game, a massive powerful beast to be conquered and honoured, and for the farmer, the bull represented the primary labour source, upon who's back the success or failure of the harvest literally sat upon. likewise to sacrifice a Bull to the Gods was to give the ultimate gift, one of power and (quite literally so far as its use as labour is concerned) of life.
now in Mesoamerica of course there were no bulls or large pack animals of any sort capable of working in the fields, and likewise the most powerful creatures were the likes of the Panthers, brutal, fast and often stealthy killing machines, not like the majestically powerful bull.
as a result of this combined with the unique form of agriculture practiced by the Mexica (a form of hydroponics utilizing porous mud and peat of the swamps) Man became the primary source of agricultural labour, as well as all labour in general.
this specific meathod of farming allowed massive harvests to be gathered in far shorter spans than scratch plow farming of the Mediterranean, which in turn allowed for massive population growth to sustain the labour needed for Mexican civilization.
now as the Human was both made in the image of the Gods (complete with reason and mind) as well as the very literal sustainer of life through his sweat and blood, the Human as a creature attained a far greater status among the Mexicans than anywhere else.
>>cont...
>>449084
Oh no the manlets in onesies are going to hit me with a stick
>>449105
macahuitls would cut you in half, man. Obsidian is fucking sharp
>>449084
the Gods themselves gave their very blood and lives so that the world could flourish, and likewhise men gave their blood in reality in the form of their labour and latter especially with the Aztec, in battle.
the Aztec themselves were foreigners, but adopted the Mexican cultures so what I've said before applies to them as well. They were an incredibly militant culture, with a strong caste system of Warrior Nobility.
If any of you have read the Bhagavad Gita you will understand the similarities between the Vedic ideas of Sacred War and the Warrior and those of the Aztec Knightly classes.
I mention warfare because this played a major role in the escalation of Human Sacrifice. originally Sacrifice was voluntary, much like with the Anglo-Saxon Blot where sometimes a human would be sacrificed; this person would put themselves forward long beforehand and in turn be treated with divine respect as their action would mimic that of the Gods themselves who gave their lives to sustain the world.
this worked for some time as being the sacrifice was a very prestigious status, and many other Mexica followed this procedure. The Aztec however in seeking to establish their divine right to rule and nobility chose to ramp up the sacrifices, which would in turn confer ever greater blessings upon them from the divine (and for a time this seemed to work).
with more and more sacrifices (sometimes hundreds in a day) volunteers simply were not enough, this is where sacrifice and the Aztec ideas of nobility through war connected with one another.
in the flower wars dozens of warriors, all dressed in their most flamboyant outfits to put their nobility and divine prowess on displace for all to see would fight among one another, not to kill specifically but more to establish supremacy and take the vanquished as prisoners to be sacrificed, a fitting end to a noble warrior.
>cont?
>>449084
You know, or it could be YHWH told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, and then was all like "It was just a prank, bro!" when Abraham was about to sacrifice Isaac, and religions based off of this god, such as are currently popular in Europe, did away with human sacrifice.
>>449121
Please
>>449121
fascinating. please continue.
>>449121
where this fell apart however is the demand still kept on growing and any pretension of noble sacrifice through combat and capture sort of fell by the wayside, warriors began to compete by how many captives they would gather, and organized ritual warfare became more akin to raids and kidnapping.
now this is why the Mexicans began to resent the Aztec so much, they were very much an empire and existed parasitically off of their subjects, using force to keep them in line.
now on the other side of the coin we have the Europeans, and as many of you are aware of a large number of Mexicans sided with Cortes and his small band. But what is more interesting is what came after. the Conversion of the natives was so rapid that even force could not account for it, especially considering the deep modern synthesis of Mexican and Spanish beliefs.
In reality the vast majority of Catholic converts did so willingly, largely because of how much Spanish Catholicism resonated with their own faith.
Jesus, much like the Aztec Gods, was himself both mortal and divine, and like them sacrificed himself in order to save the world. The difference however was Jesus offered salvation without asking for blood in return, and beyond this he stood for the common man rather than the interests of the nobility.
As Christians, any man could be noble, and blood became irrelevant as the blood of Christ paid all dues.
its also interesting to note that Cortes himself arrived (illegally so far as the Spanish crown was concerned) in Mexico on Black Friday wearing his ceremonial black armour; this image coincidentally matched up with the prophesied time and appearance by which Quetzalcoatl was said to return upon his ships. This is the main reason they were initially believed to be Gods.
Its almost as if it was all in God's plan ;^)
>>449132
by European faith I include pre-Christian tradition since its necessary to understand the developments made by Christianity
human sacrifice most definutelye xisted in Europe, as I mentioned before a good example is the Blot; although more often this involved the sacrifice of a horse rather than a man, the Horse holding similar status among the Northern peoples as the Bull did for the Mediterranean ones.
>>449105
Obsidian is the sharpest natural material in the world.
>>449302
what materials do you study to reach this understanding
>>449584
The Anglo-saxon Library is a good book but its expensive to buy, see if you can find it in a library, my school as it which is how I got to read it.
other books as well relating to the Anglo-Saxons especially, because they are such a literary culture and bridge the gap between the Pagan and the Christian man, and as a result have more appreciation for the Pagans in their writings than the Mediterranean writers do.
>>443493
They were fucking idiots, Moctezuma saw one dude and instantly went "This guy MUST be a god, let's give him dominion over my empire"; then it happened that "et tu, Cortez?".
Cuahutemoc was a fucking idiot, he ran around instigating a revolt because he wanted to become emperor and he actually had a plan to kill Moctezuma but Cortez beat him to the punch and so La Noche Triste happened.
>>449752
that's not at all what happened and the Spainish were nearly wiped out on numerous occasions.
>>449401
Brittle, though
>>449785
Won't break before cutting your horse in half in a single blow.
Then the other half of the sword....
... Damnit how the hell did the Aztecs lose¡
>>449164
>Its almost as if it was all in God's plan ;^)
Shame so many natives had to die though.
And they didn't have access to christianity so if you're right they all went to hell/limbo without a choice.
>>450115
>cutting your horse in half in a single blow
volcanically folded over 9000 times
stupid gringos and their worthless steel
wood and glass clearly masterrace
>>445209
>you were lucky to hit something at more than 20m
>>449164
>on Black Friday wearing his ceremonial black armour; this image coincidentally matched up with the prophesied time and appearance by which Quetzalcoatl was said to return upon his ships.
I cannot imagine what it must have been like to be one of them.
>>443533
A lot of people sacrificed for a higher power!
>>443514
SPAIN?
>>450396
if you read the Conquest of New Spain by Bernal Diaz he captures the sentiment of the crew and the natives fairly well.
>>443503
no they don't
>>443496
AND Turkey.
But mostly bugs.
>>450248
>hell
To go to hell you need to mortally sin. If someone doesn't know Christian God, he can't, by definition, mortally sin.
