Was it fascism?
literally yes
>>574121
certainly not that in the flag
>>574121
National Socialism =/= Fascism.
National Socialism is a subset of Fascism that promotes race theory as well as the preservation of the state.
Fascism is more about the unification and strengthening of the state under one leader.
I guess you could say Fascism is the more vanilla version of Fascism.
Its founder, Benito Mussolini, wasn't racist or anti-semitic anyway. The only reason he started to treat Jews badly during the war was for one of two commonly accepted reasons:
1, He feared what Germany would do if he didn't do it.
2. He saw Hitler as a friend and wanted to help him.
>>574151
mussolini despised hitler
>>574151
*more vanilla version of National Socialism.
>>574121
that's a flag
Why do people like the iron cross, it looks stupid.
>>574151
>not knowing the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei was so named solely to appeal to the widest possible German demographic at the time and had nothing to do with actually practicing socialism nor any other leftist political doctrine
>>574204
I'm no economist, but weren't they the de facto controllers of the entire economy?
>>574229
In Hitler's own words, "I absolutely insist on protecting private property ... we must encourage private initiative."
Of course, the unspoken caveat is that that "private initiative" ought to be pointed at empowering the state and especially its military. The Nazis were fine with entrepreneurship, believing it encouraged the best of outcomes ala social Darwinism, but since everything a Nazi citizen does ought to be for the good of the Reich, those entrepreneurs were encouraged toward certain applications of their business.
>>574151
fascism was supposed to be 'the third way' basicaly a combination of socialism and class cooperation in a total state
realy it was about italian middle class reacting as brutaly as they could against any possible idea of 'redistribution' let alone revolution, basicaly the dude that had like 5 cows to loose armed himself got together with his friends and attacked the people that had nothing to loose every time they would start organising
this was all in a post war situation and civil war semed imminent, people actualy started fighting in 1920, there were skirmishes in the willages and factories were being overtaken and so on
so in 1921 benito held a congress, unified all the various squadristi and fasci di combatimento and marched on rome
one of the major factors in fascism was precisely that it was semi-legal, they basicaly took pover in a popular overtake, but they didnt actualy overthrow, it was like a coup to keep the rulers already in power in power
this supposedly made it more of a peoples movement, musolini thus being a peoples leader and so on
dude was a socialist newspaper editor before all that shit so go figure
also a mayor part of fascist ideology is a simple adoration of violence, war and brutality, mixed with futurist machine worship
race ideology didnt realy enter it, italians were as racist at that point as british or french or belgians, all the eugenic and blood science stuff went way over their heads and wouldnt realy be relevant to them, they just wanted to build a empire and if that means using airplanes, bombs, gass, howitzers and machineguns against people throving spears at them then all the more glory to the miracles of speed, force and machinery conquering all things natural and base
these are some major divergences betveen fascism and nazism, where nazis were all for somekind of return to tradition and values and a mythical understanding of race and nature etc... fascists were just about might makes right and fuck nature
>>574293
basicaly, the main difference betveen fascism and nazism is that nazis believed, or at least their ideology stated, that they have something like a right or a prerogative to rule and conquer as the master race
fascist just believed if you kill enough people you win, and if youre strong and brutal enough you can kill enough people, the rest will submit
much more down to earth, much more mafia style realism, still, must of been some look on their faces when they simply didnt win
>>574309
>fascist just believed if you kill enough people you win, and if youre strong and brutal enough you can kill enough people, the rest will submit
This is grossly oversimplified.
Fascism is really about the preservation of culture and the nation and its citizens through a strong, unifying leader.
>>574121
No. National Socialism had a distinct intellectual and political genealogy.
>>574327
what i meant was they didnt hold a belief that something about their blood cells gives them a natural/god given position in some hierarchy of life, they understood the logic of life being a struggle way more literaly than hitler did, and they were completely unapologetic about it, even openly
of course theres a huge load of things like importance of a nation state, class cooperation, demographic growth, social darvinist logic, catholic clero-fascism, idea of an autarchic economy driven by resource from colonies etc etc... but the basics were much simpler, a lot of it was about bruitality and dominance in every aspect, it was like they raised that to some sublime level of meaning
>>574293
It's also notable that Mussolini's other foreign fuckboi was a former socialist too. Oswald Mosley of the British Union of Fascists, perfect example of a man trying to find the third way. Originally sat as a Conservative member of British parliament, before defecting the Labour (socialist) party rising rapidly through the ranks becoming the youngest minister in the 1929 Labour government. Resigned in 1930 over his cabinet superiors refusing his more radical policies to combat unemployment also being an early supporter of Keynesian economics. Eventually resigned from the party entirely following the rejection of his manifesto narrowly by the party conference vote.
Formed the New Party and later British Union of Fascists in 1931 following a visit to Mussolini's Italy and becoming a major support of the reigime. He professed as well to not enjoying the company of Hitler or supporting his policies. Biggest deviation between Mussolini and Mosley probably was Mosley's continued support for democratic elections in the country alongside a corporatist system.
Two quotes from the man on fascism and his politics:
"[Fascism] was an explosion against intolerable conditions, against remediable wrongs which the old world failed to remedy. It was a movement to secure national renaissance by people who felt themselves threatened with decline into decadence and death and were determined to live, and live greatly"
"I am not, and never have been, a man of the right. My position was on the left and is now in the centre of politics."
>>574282
In Hitler's own words:
"From the camp of bourgeois tradition, it takes national resolve, and from the materialism of the Marxist dogma, living, creative Socialism".
They certainly nationalized industries, just not all of them, and not all possessions.
>>574121
National Socialism was too secular to be considered Fascist.
>>574161
Same reason Jews and American loves their stars.
>>574154
Why did Hitler rescue him then?
>>574293
Nazis emphasized tradition? They were progressives who wanted to improve society through eugenics and start tabula rasa like the revolution.
>>575073
Hitler was Musso's lapdog for the longest time.
Durr I dunno
The internet "Fascists" on this forum seem so enamored half the time trying to blame Naziism for the failure of Fascism, but spend the rest of the time fetishizing Nazi aesthetics and philosophy. Seriosly, half of /pol/ either identifies as fascist or Natsoc depending on who they want to appear edgy too. Fascism is more appealing to authoritarians cross political spectrum, while Nazis are literally just that. This is all just a spook " Don't call me a Nazi, I'm really a Fascist National Socialist!" when they use terms and definitions interchangably. YOU might know the nuance, but the faggots calling themselves fascists and natsocs could care less because they don't know. They only know that it is an edgelord ideology and a few snippets of supporting philosophy to back it up.
I have yet to see a "fascist" (AKA Mussolini apologist) denounce German national socialism as not true fascism, just as I have yet to see a Strasser (AKA "true NatSoc") Nazis denounce fascism as not true national socialism..
>>575073
He had to.
>>575181
You really think that those who idealize that shit are the ones making legitimate historical points in these threads? That's one step up to the slippery slope of tinfoil hat.
Seriously what's the general agreement? Did Hitler really hate all Jews or just Zionist? Was he actually seen as a liberator by a lot of Russians? And is the general narrative of evil Nazism accurate?
>>575195
It doesn't count as tinfoil if it's the mainstream.
>>575205
>>575195
I was talking about the internet in general. We can play pretend in our nice /his/ hugbox that everyone who declares themselves a fascist/natsoc/communist is well informed, understands nuanced differences in philosophy and can keep their ideology separate from their personality, but come the fuck on. No one picks a radical ideology for rational, thoroughly thought out reasons - they do however decide based on whatever current trend they are reacting to. They are reactionary ideologies and should be discounted when discussing philosophy - because reactionary thought has already reached their own conclusions and there is no more to be discussed. Thats the point I wanted to make. There is nothing to discuss when someone calls thelselves a fascist, communist, nazi. A progressive and conservative have more in common with each other than with the fringe - this is where philosophy is still useful. Fringe, reactionary schools of thought are dead end, not because of some edgy conspiracy against them - but because they are bankrupt ideas. Dead end. And because of this, those who declare themselves followers of such dead end schools can be, should be, and in the wider world outside of 4chan - are discredited. Only on the internet is debating fascism a thing - in real life there is nothing to debate further.
>>575253
You sound like a monarchist attacking republicanism or some shit.
>>574121
Fucking kriegsmarine bs. Now I can't go on /r/vexillology without some fucktard Slovenian Kreigsmarine flag.
>>575292
Go back to reddit and stay back
>>575294
Fuck off anon. It isn't the current year anymore. Get with the times.
Become a degenerate. Troll reddit for shitposting purposes already.
No, they were natsoc.
