What do you guys think of Kurdistan? How would the Middle East look today if they were given a country like was promised after the First World War. What will the future hold for them?
>>441359
They'll be dead.
>Given a country
No. You take a country by blood and suffering and hold on to it. No one is given a country
>>441359
Well now they can easily carve their own state from the carcass of ISIL because no one would really stop them. They'd deserve it at that point. And they'd fight to the absolute death holding on to whatever country they found.
I think the middle east will be a shithole no matter what happens
>many religious dichotomies nibble at the heels of any army
>insanely large wealth gaps between countries due to luck with oil
>isreal randomly being awarded somebody elses land
>the cold war funneled hundreds of thousands of weapons into the region
You could make everybody in the region forget their religion and national history and it'd still be a bloodbath.
>>441359
I'm not sure if we can talk about alternative history on this board
>>441363
I'm sure the jews and brazilians would like a word with you.
>>441586
Sure we can. Just not alternate futures like OP wants the thread to be.
>>441607
The Israelis have a lot of blood on their hands. Not sure what your point was with Brazil but it also has a bloody history. It's a country because the king of Portugal fled there when Napoleon conquered Iberia, and it was a Portuguese colony for centuries before that, during which time many slaves were imported and many natives died. Not to mention the dictatorships they've had, the wars they've fought with other LA nations (and non-LA nations). I really am not sure what your point was.
Kurdistan is one of the most proeminent places to enter a civil war if independent
>>441359
They are going to be a totalitarian shithole if they ever be independant.
>>441359
As a kurd, I think it will be a shithole even if it goes independent.
With the PKK there is a high chance of totalitarianism, but without them the independance is unimaginable, too much depends on them.
Worse case scenario it becames a communist shithole instead of a religious shithole, best case scenario it becames a moderately socialist country (but this is pretty unlikely).
Is the "kurds are more progressive" idea true, or just a popular media meme?
>>443842
Won't it inevitably be a communist shithole if the PKK comes out on top of the YPG? How much conflict is there between the two groups?
>>441359
> What will the future hold for them?
Being a NATO state close to Iran.
It would probably be a totalitarian shithole, like the rest of that God forsaken region.
>>443876
>PKK comes out on top of the YPG
Thats given, PKK is a lot more influlental and important as far as I know.
There is a slight chance that they won't go apeshit like most commies do, but I wouldn't bet on it.
>>443987
>The Middle-East will have a Lenin in your lifetime
Fuck
>>444001
Its almost an obvious evolution, just compare early 20th century Russia with the Middle-East today, socialism would be benefital to catch up the living condition of all those people who have low as fuck living conditions, really uneducated and wouldn't even leave their village in their life.
Of course it likely end in a bloodbath like every other attempt at communism.
>>444144
I agree, I think Islamism is the only real ideological barrier preventing socialism from being practiced outright throughout the region. Once the political benefits of being an Islamist disappear, a radical secular ideology will have a big power vaccuum to fill.
>>443923
I think being a totalitarian shithole is a luxury for middle east.
DEMOCRATIC CONFEDERALISM IS THE ONLY WAY TO GOD
>>444196
It's true, totalitarianism implies a strong state.
PDKI will fight PUK, which will fight KDP, which will fight PKK, which will associate with YPG and attack Turkey
Kurdistan is not possible
>>443842
Where do you live brother?
>>444157
You are actually inverting history.
Islamism is fitting the vaccum that was left by the failure of Arab socialism in the 50s and 60s.
>>444738
Are you implying that they can't try it agaun? I'm talking about the future, not the past. I never used the word 'Arab,' either; I'm talking about Kurds and Persians, more than Arabs.
Turkey will never, ever allow a stable Kurdistan to exist, especially if it blocks their border with Iraq.
>>444826
>socialism fails and leaves unwashed hordes of Islamist radicals at it's wake
>let's try it again
why.jpg
>>444848
>Turkey will never, ever allow a stable Kurdistan to exist, especially if it blocks their border with Iraq.
Iraq Kurdistan is an ally of Erdogan, I'm pretty sure he would rather deal with Barzani than with shia-hostile Baghdad
>>444870
I'm not saying it would be good, it just seems like a likely next step for the region. If Islam loses its political pull something will have to replace it.
>>444896
ISIS might be doing that only time will tell
>Inb4 thread is flooded with Turks bitching about kurds and then doing mental gymnastics to justify not just giving them their own country
>>444909
Implementing secular socialism?
>>441359
>Muh ethnic nationalism
Getting their own country won't instantly solve all their problems. In fact, it often makes things worse.
>>444964
Do you have a better, realistic alternative?
>>441359
as a turk i think that kurds in southeast turkey should be given some autonomy if we switch to a full state system but it should be stated that they have done nothing to 'win' independence. pkk is just a destabilizing commie group funded by slavs in order to keep the turkish army/police on their toes
turkey has spent billions of dollars on southeast anatolia in order to help the tribal kurds in the area but they just don't want to change. if kurdistan was released today as a nation without any oil reserves it would be a shithole
>>444938
making islamist lose political pull
>>441363
What is Israel...
>>445082
How so?
>>441359
literal islabic gommunists
>>441359
>group of mercenary nomads who invaded from Persia and displaced the Assyrians
>Kill Armenians for Turks
>get killed by Turks 100 years later
>try to stir shit up in Iraq
>get their asses handed to them
>worthy of a country
>>445156
The Assyrians were the original proto-fascists.
>>441359
I doubt they will go independent. The only Kurdish group that is actually pushing for outright independence and nothing else would be in Iraq, and they are already satisfied with the level of autonomy they currently have. The PKK and YPG(almost same organization, to the point where the PKK helps smuggle in weapons and foreign fighters to the YPG)have the most momentum and influence of the Kurdish groups, and they do not support the foundation of a Kurdish nation-state. Their leader, Ocalan, founded the organization in the 80's as a Marxist-Leninist organization, but when the Turks arrested him, he began to read Murray Bookchin and various other Anarchist writings in prison, and changed the organization from an ML, full independence movement to a more anarchistic regionalism, which Ocalan calls "Democratic Condederalism". However, while his political beliefs changed, as well as the overall party's, there is still a large cult of personality around him that runs almost entirely counter to the groups philosophy. They do not want to form their own state, but would rather just simply be given nearly complete autonomy. Considering these guys have are the most opportunities due to the Syrian Civil War, after the war, they will make an agreement with the Syrian government, whomever that may be, to allow for autonomous control and direct democracy in their regions. They may also have a larger political party to push their ideology, which may catch on in Iraq and Syria due to its successes in Rojava.
>>445160
Elaborate. I'm genuinely curious.
>>445223
There's a thread about them up right now, you should look through it.
>Build towers in conquered cities for the specific purpose of covering them in the skin of flayed enemies
Seems pretty Holocaust-tier to me.
Kurdistan has been de facto independent for a long time. They don't have much relevance because they don't have particularly large oil reserves.
>>445114
Islamists get a lot of support from the Gulf states who support Islamic terrorism and ISIS
>>444255
republican federations*
>>445324
How is that a sign that Islamism is on the decline?
