Why has modern Italy had such a pathetic military?
>lost 2 of 3 independence wars, relying on first the French and then the Prussians to gain anything
>defeated by Ethiopia, the most embarrassing defeat of European forces by native Africans in the modern era
>unable to decisively defeat Austria-Hungary despite the Habsburgs being distracted by Russian and Serbia until A-H was literally dissolving in October 1918
>utterly trounced in WWII to the extent that they switch sides
Just what gives? How did Rome's descendants fall so low?
They were issued wine rations
>>439984
Italy has lost battles. It has lost no wars.
( except the one against the somali talitoyus.). They always switch to the winning side before the war is over.
>>440032
>Italy has lost no wars
>except
lol Italians
>>439984
Oh, the AIDF strikes again.
>>439984
You can't expect a bunch of city states and kingdoms slapped together to perform at the same levels of big, rich long united countries like France or UK. Also consider typical italian nepotism and laziness and you shouldn't be surprised by that.
Italian soldiers themselves weren't that bad, at least in WW2 (that's the one I did most reasearch on). Things could have been different if Italy had proper commanders and resources.
>>439984
Nothing embarassing about losing against Kingz™ to be honest family
>>440376
WE WUZ RAS N SHIET
>>440376
ethiopians are white
>>440467
And Italians are non white ;)
>>440467
>>440467
WE WUZ EDIOPIAANZ N SHIET
>>440344
>bunch of city states and kingdoms slapped together
Couldn't that also describe Germany? They seemed to perform alright, apart from losing of course.
>>440472
honorary whites
>>440479
>Couldn't that also describe Germany?
Not really no. Which Germany are you thinking about?
>>440263
the truth has no internet defence force, mr damage control
>>440490
I guess you're the one that gave them the whiteness medal, while Jamal was fucking your mom right?
>>439984
I know why anon, but im afraid im unable to be clear enough writing in english.
One day i'll try tho
>>440491
The one in Victoria 2 of course.
>>440479
>Couldn't that also describe Germany?
No.
Italy has literally been just a bunch of city states slapped together, Germany on the other hand has historically had a bunch of city states in addition to its other varying states.
>>440518
Sardiniana-Piedmont, Tuscany, the Papal States, and Two Sicilies all qualified for more than just city-states.
>>440540
Rome, and the vast majority of Italy's wealth and population being concentrated in cities alone, historically, disagrees with you.
>>440540
You forgot Milan
>>440515
Well, Germany being unified by ebin Prussian dik isn't really equivalent to just slapping the states together, no.
>>440555
The point is that, by definition, a city-state must consist of only a single city. Thus the states I listed, as well as ones that historically existed prior to Italian Unification, like Milan and Venice, do not qualify as city-states.
>>440581
>The point is that, by definition, a city-state must consist of only a single city.
lolno
unless Venice isn't a city-state anymore.
>>440585
Venice was originally a city state, but over its history it expanded to consist of much more territory.
And if that's not an adequate definition, how would you define a city-state?
>>440608
>how would you define a city-state?
It's an independent city and its dependencies, how is that subject to debate? At no point did the territory owned by Florence or Venice were anything else than dependencies.
>>440623
>Florence
So Pisa is just a dependency of Florence?
>Venice
Verona? Ragusa? Zara?
>>440649
>you're part of Venice now
>does our grorious city gets its say and representation in the Venetian council?
>no
>...oh
>>440518
I can tell you many german city-states. Can you name one, just one Italian city-state after the middle ages?
Into the memes and utter ignorance sack with you.
>>440759
Mantua
>>440759
>Can you name one, just one Italian city-state after the middle ages?
Easily several states that were essentially city states well into the early-modern period before unification as the kingdom of Italy.
>Into the memes and utter ignorance sack with you.
Are you retarded?
>>440784
Nice try but it was a Duchy. Lucca would qualify better but no, still no a frei stadt.
Anyway these were all gone by the time previous to the unification.
>inb4 San marino
>>440797
See above.
Just because a state is small doesn't automatically qualify into the category city-state. There were lots of principalities in Germany the size of a golf course that werent city-states.
Thus, the trash can, your place.
I just want to point out that during the 1st Ethiopean war Italy was outnumbered 10 to 1, and 5 of those 10 had firearms.
Oh and this is the Isonzo battlefield, good fucking luck assaulting that with WW1 gear.
>>440032
>Italy is so bad they lose wars before they're over
>>440848
>Just because a state is small doesn't automatically qualify into the category city-state.
It has nothing to do with the state's size, but the state's existence being dependent on a single city. And into the 18th century, what were essentially city states still existed as the bulk of Italy. You're arguing semantics, and Germany had a lot of free imperial cities and states dependent on clusters of cities.
>Anyway these were all gone by the time previous to the unification.
Yeah, you do realize how short that interregnum was, right? lol so retarded
>>440868
>they lost a war against Ethiopians
Italy truly is the most pathetic colonial of them all.
>>440876
Ethiopia was actually pretty advanced compared to western-southern african countries.
And they got btfo hard the second war.
>>440872
Nope. Absolutely nothing to do with it.
And Luxembourg, or Liechtenstein aren't city-states either.
Remember; Le trash, your home.
>>440897
>Sparta and Athens owned a city and alot of the area around them
>They were called City States
Le fuck off m8
>>440897
>Nope. Absolutely nothing to do with it.
Then prove otherwise, mongoloid.
>xD trash meme!
Whoa nice argument.
>>440897
learn the definition of what a cite state is you freak
>>439984
Come hoping to discuss modern Italian military, but I get a discussion on city-states.
The problem with the Italian military, in WW2, was shit hierarchy and Germany minimalizing Italian battalions contribution to the war effort. Italy protects its interests in war and they politic their way out of problems including losing wars. That's how they got that land from Austria-Hungary in WW1, and didn't get the harsh treatment by the allies after WW2. Italy got the allies to supply that front for them on the Italian front in WW1 which brings up another problem with Italy's military. They consistently have issues with logistics and supplying their troops. Pasta and a 2×4 can only allow a military to be minimally affective against a well equipped and supplied force.
>>440912
Honestly one of the most important factors to consider for WW2-era Italy is that the country didn't actually want to go to war, regardless of what the fascists purported and dictated. Relative incompetence makes sense when the sentiment of the people wasn't congruous with the sentiment of their leader, unlike Germany.
>>440929
>Italy had city states too during the middle ages.
And the states that existed past that point prior to the 19th century were still essentially city states, retard. Keep arguing semantics though and spouting le funny trash meme, you're really getting your point across.
>>440929
Because small baron and dukes took over their city when their rulers fell.
Or just general politics.
I'n Greece i'm gona guess it has more to do with them just being settlements that developed into small ''kingdoms''.
Italy had about 5000000 different rulers especially in the North, i'm gona name a few off the top of my head.
Normans, Longobards, French, Spanish, HRE, Austria, more France and more Austria.
>>440932
Mussolini also had a we are Romans - we are conquerors problem which in turn caused him to severely over estimate his troop strength.
>>440932
Yeah but Italy had some pretty good battalions and troops even considering that they didn't want to be there.
>>440884
>And they got btfo hard the second war.
Yeah they didn't have chemical weapons and airplanes. Only took Italy 40 years to recover for that attempt.
>>440987
>b-but there was one or two regional states, and they had names like duchy and republic!
>wikipedia told me so
Embarrassing.
>>440868
>Oh and this is the Isonzo battlefield, good fucking luck assaulting that with WW1 gear.
Did anyone tell this to the Italian military leadership?
>>441017
>isonzo
>world war 1
>refering to mussolini
makes no sense, buddy.
>>440032
>Italy has lost battles. It has lost no wars.
ethiopia late 19th century?
>>439984
>the most embarrassing defeat of European forces by native Africans in the modern era
isandlwana tbqh family
>ideology completely built around war
>can only defeat africans and disorganised militias
lmao @ fascism
>>440344
>B-But Italian soldier were good fighter!!
All soldier of all nation are good fighter, and in WW2 even more
>>442632
Hey dumbass. I'm sure he was referring to the "we are Romans" part.
>>442706
>ideology completely built around war
>fascism
nah
>>440912
>Italy got the allies to supply that front for them on the Italian front in WW1 which brings up another problem with Italy's military. They consistently have issues with logistics and supplying their troops.
If Italy was to announce air strikes against IS in Libya and attempt to create buffer zones around the coastline to stop migrants crossing, how likely would it be to succeed?
You guys forgot to mention about the Italian invasion of Greece in WW2 where the less equipped Greek army kicked Italy's ass so hard that Germany had intervene and delay Operation Barbarossa in the process. Some argue that this was what sealed their defeat against the Soviets.
>>442673
Islandwana didn't lose them the war
>>440876
Italians thought they will be in Vienna 2 weeks after the war starts.
Its funny that Romania, another romance entente coutnry did the same - attacked an undefended, mountainous part of Austria-Hungary, border guards repelled them, was barely saved from collapse in the end.
AIDF
>>443961
Try to hold back those tears, Giuseppe.
>>440479
>Couldn't that also describe Germany? They seemed to perform alright, apart from losing of course.
Germany was united by Prussia that dominated all those city states and smaller kingdoms. To extent that pretty much erased catholic influence from laws, state apparatus and culture outside religion and replaced with protestant work ethics and morals.
Unlike Italians they lost when fighting against superior opponent.
