Is Kabbala real wisdom or just a meme for impressionable, edgy teens and jewboos?
>>439788
>real wisdom
Define.
>just a meme
I don't even know what this is supposed to imply anymore.
>edgy
What about the Kabbalah's edgy? Ain Soph? Mezla? Metatron? The Sephira?
>teens
I don't know a single person under the age of 22 that has a good grasp on Kabbalah, even the kids who DO study it as teens.
>Jewaboos
The late Hermetic iterations of Kabbalah really have little to do with Judaism other than like gematria and the structure of the Tree.
According to Derrida, nothing exists outside the text, so you can justify a belief by the scientific method or by kabbalah and you're equally justified in believing it either way. There's no such thing as real wisdom, it's all a play.
>>439788
It's nonsense, its an esoteric interpritation of the torah, basically they just making shit up. There is ''self help'' shit attached to it, similar to hermeticism, in the end it's either just a novelty or a path to foolishness nigga.
>>439801
>According to Derrida
Stopped reading there.
OP, if it's good enough for Alan Moore it's good enough for you
real wisdom. just a handy way of interpreting and structuring the archetypal forces of reality. for example, all earth and fertility dieties can be said to represent the aspect of malkuth - nature, matter, the physical world. gods like apollo are of the tiferet sphere - solar figures of beauty and harmony.
it's amazing how much is collapsible into just 10 different concepts
>>439826
>just ten
That ignores the paths.
>Fertility
Also Netzach, Binah, Chockmah, and in some contexts, Iesod. More or less nailed Tifaret, though.
>>439805
IJS, the Merkavah literature which became the Hekhalot literature which became the Kabbalah goes back as far as 800 BC for some liberal estimates. Even the conservative estimates only put that a few hundred years ahead. Sure, Zohar can take an easy rap for being "made up" outside mainstream Torah/Rabbinical thought, but this becomes a harder accusation to make the closer we get to Kabbalah's first echoes in history.
>>439839
But what merit outside of novelty is in kabbalah?
Maybe if you're stupid enough to have the need to
ritualize and mystify some sort of self improvement or seek some kosher enlightenment.
I've not read or studied any of it but from observation of its discussion here it seems easy to mistake it of "being mysterious for the sake of being mysterious".
Glorified gnosticism.
>>439850
>But what merit outside of novelty is in kabbalah?
That's not up to me to decide, it's up to the individual aspirant.
>stupid enough
Yeah, only someone STUPID would spend years studying a contemplative or esoteric literature tradition.
>self improvement
Not really a component of the Kabbalah outside of narrow New-Age circles. At least as a part of the overall main goals or teachings, self improvements would probably be incidental and come from any other earnest practice of a contemplative or mystical tradition.
>>439851
The same could be said of anyone looking inside at a given group that uses nonstandard terminology, particularly when historical languages are thrown in the mix.
>>439874
>Kabbalah is Gnostic
Clueless
>>439874
That's kinda funny given the Pistis Sophia seems influenced by Kabbalistic forms of thought, particularly by the Hekhalot mysticism.
The validity of that accusation largely rests on what the cuttoff point is considered for 'Kabbalah'. For some scholars it's as early as Ezekiel, for others it's as late as the last nail in the coffin of the Hekhalot tradition which seems to be around 800 AD.
Its a cultural curioity, learn it to impress people on your tumblr/reddit and to appear edgy on imageboards.
Otherwise its pointless babble, as nothing of value came out of it ever.
>>439878
>, it's up to the individual aspirant.
so the same bullshit parroted by all esoteric thoughts, good to know.
>only someone STUPID would spend years studying a contemplative or esoteric literature tradition.
lot of people do retarded shit for years, not a real argument.
>>439878
>stupid enough
Yeah, only someone STUPID would spend years studying a contemplative or esoteric literature tradition.
a learned fool is still a fool, not all knowledge is good. Time is fleeting my nigga.
>>439902
>I don't have the discernment for it, so it must be fake and gay
Stop fronting. I can smell it on you like you shit your pants
>>439788
They steal it from Babylon.
>>439930
>>439902
>people on the history and humanities board arguing that studying the history and associated elaborations in the humanities of obscure religious and contemplative traditions is a bad thing or retarded.
Ok, or something.
If anyone wants to actually talk about the Kabbalah I've got a thread up that links to a library with a fairly large Kabbalah folder including the works of Aryeh Kaplan and David Chaim Smith.
It's here: >>434623
>>439954
I use to contemplate and meditate on Geburah before hitting the gym. It'd make me go so fucking hard
>>439954
Actually buying into it is foolish, reading it for basically shits n' giggles and maybe to just know it is understandable.
>>439994
I don't think I've ever read a single, coherent argument about why Kabbalah/mysticism/the whole deal are "bullshit" other than "it's old, ewwww".
>>439954
Its not bad, its about as useful as reading a novel, has potential to waste time while being entertained.
>>440016
I don't think I've ever read a single, coherent argument about why Kabbalah/mysticism/the whole deal are in any way relevant or important to learn other than "its deep, like whoaaw".
>>440021
>hippies and stoners invented mysticism
Reddit is thataway
>>439941
>Jewish mysticism is all STOLEN from other Semitic cultures! They even stole their Jew language from a northwestern dialect of Aramaic! DAE hate Jooos?
>Islamic mystycism is all completely 100% original content, just leave out the parts where they bash all the pre Islamic pagan religions
>Christian mysticism is all real though and totally original and not rehashed kike jew magic, the Pope is the messenger of God, praise Jesus, Amen
>Buddhism is the only true mysticism! I know this because I have spent many hours watching Anime in the true mother tongue and got a firey butthole this one time after eating Chicken Vindaloo. Praise Budda!
>Paganism is the true mysticism, I listen to scandanavian black metal and joined a neo nazi gay sex cult for the cultural study of MY ANCESTRAL RELIGION!
>>439994
>shits n' giggles
For you. For others not. I know it's a hard idea to grasp but some people may value things you don't, or even not value things you do.
>>439878
>Yeah, only someone STUPID would spend years studying a contemplative or esoteric literature tradition.
Yes, exactly.
>>440027
das it mang
>>440031
why should i care top kek
>>440025
I was satirizing your argument fuckwit,
I'd still fail to see any point in this other than learning for curiosity's sake. Theres plenty of stuff I'd rather learn and actually need to, so I kind of want a reason why would someone want to invest precious time into esoterism, as in what to gain.
>>440064
Personal development. Spiritual growth. What more do you need
>>440068
unquantifiable bullshit then
fuck right off with this mysticism retarded mumbo-jumbo faggotry.
>>440138
>self-improvement is unquantifiable
>if it's unquantifiable it doesn't exist.
Kek, how sad you must be
>>439810
Derrida, like many Continental philosophers, studied kabbalah. If you don't want to interact with sophisticated European thought that's your problem, not mine.
>>440138
How fucking autistic can you be; do you bring up the problem of induction when your mum says wearing a coat will make you warm?
>>440158
How can kabbalah improve your life?
>>440170
The problem of induction is the most significant stumbling block for human progress.
>>440204
It's more of a check on arrogance really
>>440220
How so?
>>440204
You sure? Seems like superstition to me.
>>440170
you need meds, religionfag
>>440166
>derrida
>sophisticated European thought
>>440186
a way of consolidating an intuitive grasp of the essential forces that govern both the microcosm and macrocosm and their many, many correspondences across cultures and religions into a schema that expedites, promotes, and cultivates spiritual growth
>>440238
>He taught or lectured several times in the United States, including serving as a visiting professor at Bard College in the fall of 1987. At a party that same year held by fashion designer Fernando Sanchez, Ayer, then 77, confronted Mike Tyson who was forcing himself upon the (then) little-known model Naomi Campbell. When Ayer demanded that Tyson stop, the boxer said: "Do you know who the fuck I am? I'm the heavyweight champion of the world," to which Ayer replied: "And I am the former Wykeham Professor of Logic. We are both pre-eminent in our field. I suggest that we talk about this like rational men". Ayer and Tyson then began to talk, while Naomi Campbell slipped out.
>>440308
It's true. He's Heidegger for people who don't hate Jews.
>>439788
It's real ma boy. How do you think da Jews managed to take over the world. tis true. They know shit we don't
>>440324
I prefer maths and physics for that but I understand its might be too muh for occult kids.
>>440764
you're on a whole other level of autist if you read the word "forces" and immediately assume I'm fucking talking about the gravitational, electroweak, and nuclear forces. lel
