How come Germany and Japan of all countries turned into economic juggernauts following WWII despite having suffered crushing defeats, the devastation of their lands, and being branded as pariahs of the international community?
>>437922
US help to prevent the USSR from ever gaining influence in them.
>>437922
Because they had good economy and infrastructure pre-war, and they had the technical expertise to rebuild all of that.
American economic aid also helped a lot.
If the Soviet Union got to Japan instead I'm sure they'll be a third world shithole that's only famous for exporting prostitutes and mail order brides like the Slavic countries.
>>437930
>I'm sure they'll be a third world shithole that's only famous for exporting prostitutes and mail order brides like the Slavic countries.
Exactly like East Germany.
>>437939
>Exactly like East Germany.
Maybe in the 90s but not anymore
>>437926
But the US supported other countries too. The UK received more than double the amount of financial aid, yet its economy was surpassed by Germany. Similar for France, even though they were part of the victors occupying their hated enemy as well.
>>437930
>American economic aid also helped a lot.
No.
>>437944
You don't seem to know enough about actually existing socialism to have an opinion if you can't spot really obvious invective.
>>437950
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_post-war_economic_miracle
>>437944
East Germany got fucked over big time by the reunification. The west basically disassembled all of east german industry and made them perpetually dependent on financial aid. The east could've developed a healthy economy of its own if not for the interference of western corporate interests. The Treuhand was nothing but a bunch of fucking white collar criminals lining their own pockets. The east may not be quite a 3rd world shit hole, but even today it has barely any perspectives to turn things around.
Despite the loss of human life, they didn't lose much of their human capital.
>>437922
well we bombed germany to hell and back, so they had to rebuild all their infrastructure with (at the time) modern stuff and lots of newer factories too
>>437922
MARSHALL
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>>437992
Again, other countries received even more aid than Germany and Japan, yet it's the losers of WWII who outcompeted them.
could it be that it is exactly because they got rekt hard that they shot up so high?
like the damage was much worse so there would have been much more construction work, the losses were much worse so there would be great demand for work and so on and so fort, the companies and factories and whatnot would have been hit hard both figuratively and literally so there would be a greater need to rebuild, restart and produce etc
Neither country didnt need to waste money on an army.
>>438018
West Germany was famously conned into buying useless US fighters.
Both countries maintained armies. In Japan's case, illegally.
>>438003
they lacked the ordnung to make use of the aid.
>>438049
This. Two countries with a historically high emphasis on discipline and ordnungschwansendansen managed to git gud.
Nothing surprising.
>>438054
>It just wasnt allowed to go to war.
Sadly the 25 year rule stops me showing what a fool you are.
But it is an unlawful organisation, organised by former class a war criminals.
>>438024
F-104's were not "useless", German pilots were just poorly trained.
>>438060
>But it is an unlawful organisation, organised by former class a war criminals
Are you korean
>>438054
>The SDF isn't illegal.
>(1) Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes.
>(2) To accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.
>>438060
I thought you were speaking of the SDF historically, dumbass. No shit I'm not discounting the fact that they recently changed their constitution.
Besides what gets your panties twisted. Only the Navy and the Air Arm is worth shit in modern Japan. Their ground forces is a complete joke in expensive equipment.
>>437947
France's population was shrinking by the turn of the 20th century, and compared to the UK and Germany it was significantly less industrialized. Its most industrialized areas were also occupied and essentially dismantled twice, and even so the UK and France are still huge world economies.
Japan was industrialized but not stunningly so, but people frequently underestimate the population of Japan--it's the 10th most populated country in the world even after a generation of population shrinkage. Until China opened up, Japan provided a huge reservoir of manpower for labor-intensive manufacturing, which let them get the foot in the door for more advanced industries.
>>437922
Japanese technological innovation that's why.
S T E M
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Pic related.
>>438011
Kinda this.
With so much industrial capacity destroyed you end up with constructing new (modern) ones, unlike the UK for example which would kcling to it's aged equipment for quite some time.
Then there's also the fact that the massive bombings opened up the way for better planing of infrastructure, if the houses have been bombed to shit noone willprotest if you build a road over them.
>>438105
How's some carbonated drink related to technical innovation
>>437922
-They were fairly well developed before the war
-Free trade
-Currency reforms
That's it.
Note: Marshall plan money would today (inflation adjusted) be just 50 billion $ or so for Germany, it's literally nothing.
>>437947
The difference is that in the UK or France they've had demographic crisis since the late 19th century, and unlike Germany, even after the war ended both countries were in extremely huge debt, not to mention their colonies getting more and more unstable.
>>438833
>They were fairly well developed before the war
>Japan
Japan was like China was in 90's during 20's, the Great Crisis fucked it up completely, then militarists got to power and screwed up the economy even more.
>>438892
Scientifically/Economically run society with a measure of rule of law, it had more in common with Western Europe than Mexico or China at the time.
>>438828
It's delicious.
>>438049
This. Japs And Krauts are autistic robots. This is why they get shit done.
>>437960
The Korean War was a massive boon to the West German and Japanese economies.
>>438003
The losers of WWII were industrial powerhouses and former world powers.
It is not because of US aids. It is because Germans and Japanese are the most hardworking people. They know about how to build a good infrastructure, modern technologies, etc. Sadly, now they got built up the politicians in Germany destroy all that again.
>>438061
>gets shot down by mig 21s
sure thing billybob
>>438061
If the greatest fighter ace of WWII (and all time, incidentally) quits his service for the air force because of the introduction of the "flying coffin" as it was called, that should tell you something about that aircraft. Nevermind knowing German officials had to be bribed to purchase that piece of junk in the first place.
>>439461
>Japanese are the most hardworking people.
Isn't that just a meme because even though they put in long hours, I've read that they're not efficient with their time.
>>440869
There's a lot of social pressure to appear hard working, but you're right, that doesn't mean all the salarymen actually are hard working and quite a few of them are more efficient at playing pretend than getting work done. Arguably they still have better work ethic than most other countries, though.
>>438105
>inventing a dildo shaped drink
D E S I G N
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>>437922
They both boast large populations where hard work ethic is valued, efficiency in industry is strived for and as crazy as it sounds, having your industry destroyed can be a good thing, if you possess the means to rebuild. Their industries would be state-of-the-art rather than some old relic that's been there since the dawn of the industrial revolution, desperately being rebuilt and modified to accomodate all the changes and advances in industry.
>>437922
After WWI the goal was to punish Austro-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, and Germany. After WWI we realized punishment would cause them to get worse as they did beforehand. After WWII Germany was occupied by the USSR, the USA, France, and the UK, and the USA was more or less given to the USA. Germany being split by the four administrative zones focused on building Germany as a Cold-War buffer so the country was rebuilt and given money for infrastructure, military bases (which is why many US, UK, and France troops often travel to Germany) and as a place where Communism and Capitalism met, it needed lots of industry and trade to support itself in case of attack. Japan on the other hand simply had their military forcefully minimized, giving them more money for business investments and infrastructure for trade and civics.Not to mention the resources for both, the populations, and Japan's amazing ports. That's my theory at least.
>>437922
Not having to spend money on a large military is helpful.
>>438105
But Ramune was first sold by a Scot, and comes in a bottle designed by an Englishman.
The only Japanese thing about it is the painfully tiny serving size.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Cameron_Sim
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codd-neck_bottle
If the success of Germany and Japan post WW2 is explained by them being the most hardworking people how do you explain Italy's enormous economic boom after WW2?
>>441310
because le lazy italians is a dumb meme.
>>441314
Wasn't Italy's problem corruption and organized crime, not laziness?
>>441970
how about being a place with absolutely shitty industrial potential for starts?
literally fucking nothing economically important on the italian peninsula except that its in the middle of the dediterranean.
>>441310
because you're buying into stupid stereotypes??
>>437947
>turkey
>financial aid
turkey never received financial aid from america, they were paid to strengthen their military and side with the west instead of the commies like they promised in the 1920s
>>437947
> Sweden getting aid
> Not Finland
Top fucking kek
>>442166
According to these guys it's all about the right sort of economic and political institutions and therefore the italian peninsula should be as good as any other place to erect industry.
>>437947
Lel at Poland and East Germany
>>442591
whats so funny about that? why would the US support russias vassals?
>>437922
Because the United States uplifted their savage asses and rebuild their counties for them.
>>437944
Maybe because it stopped existing in the 90s
>>437968
Not true m8. You don't see how shitty and uncompetitive the eastern german Industry was (while still being the best in the eastern bloc). They couldn't even replace broken machinery in the end. Try to get your hands on the last wirtschaftsbericht of the ZK.
>>443091
yeah right, thats why east germany is deserted wasteland today.
>>443120
Of people too dumb and/or poor to move west, sure.
>>443133
what makes you think that?
>>442301
>http://turkey.usembassy.gov/marshall_60.html
>As a neutral nation in World War II, Turkey did not suffer war damage. However, because of its growing ties with Western Europe, Turkey received $225 million in Marshall Plan funds to modernize its infrastructure as part of project linking it more closely with the European economy.
>>437922
Because they're industrious people and their countries are ethnically homogeneous. Also: they got rid of the elements that would plunder their peoples' riches during the war. Hitler knew they were going to lose so he'd secure his peoples' future by putting everything into getting rid of what would otherwise be keeping them down.
>>445605
>Hitler knew they were going to lose so he'd secure his peoples' future by putting everything into getting rid of what would otherwise be keeping them down.
Easy there, /pol/, you're being too obvious.
basically got ideas by united states entities
>>445605
What about Singapore, the UK, and the US? They're heterogenous and host communities from very different cultures around the world, and they have higher GDP per capita than either Germany or Japan or both.
So why should homogeneity necessarily matter anyway?
Regarding Marshall: the US confiscated German patents worth hundreds of billions of Dollars.
Germany and Japan had the most skilled and advanced population in the world. There is a reason to why they almost defeated the whole world, despite having just a fraction of their manpower.
>>442306
Finland was offered aid like everyone else but didn't take it because Soviet Union was kind of a pressing issue.
>>446632
One is a totalitarian state, one has the world financial capital in it (London) and the last one has every imaginable resource and advantage imaginable.
>>447209
>There is a reason to why they almost defeated the whole world, despite having just a fraction of their manpower.
Japan got broke trying to conquer China...before WWII even started.
And don't get me started with the Germans. Failed at Britain and failed in Russia.
>>438055
>ordnungschwansendansen
Top fucking kek.
Its because they are the master races of europe and asia.
