Does the timid growth of arab atheists offer any danger to Islam homogeneity in Middle East, or is it just a stupid ilusion?
https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/4898/the-rise-of-arab-atheism
>>563165
No, apostates do not threaten the unshakeable resolve of the Ummah.
Actual ex-Muslim here.
I converted to Christianity after doing alot of research and study. It is the truth.
>>563183
same.
i find it really strange how the west turns atheist right when i became a christian.
i never thought i would be defending traditional european christianity on 4chan against atheists
i wish i converted when 4chan was majority christian and atheists were told to gtfo back to reddit
i have noticed that white people are becoming either atheist or neo-pagan like /pol/.
they are backstabbing 2000 years of christian history, they are stabbing their ancestors in the back who held Jesus dear in their hearts
>>563194
They still are on most boards, just not the ones that have been invaded by liberals (not that the rest of 4chan is conservative, but we usually have the sense or the entitlement to be contrarians for the sake of fun or for the sake of asking the hard questions to the dominant cultural attitude).
>>563194
>they are backstabbing 2000 years of christian history, they are stabbing their ancestors in the back who held Jesus dear in their hearts
The same way european christans did when they abandoned their regional religions to convert into a foreign one?
>>563203
Yes, we should go back to sacrificing children to underworld gods, having orgies in temples, sex with animals and running around naked in the forests.
Great idea.
>>563214
It would not be much different to burning women for 'being witches', killing people for having sex with someone from the same gender or prohibiting failed marriages to end, and all other marvelous things Christianity brought to Europe.
>>563165
Fuck off to /pol/ if you are going to have a thread bashing Muslims. Lets not make /his/ another racist shitty board thanks to stormfront shits.
>>563235
The Roman Catholic church does not represent Christianity.
It's well known by Christians that the Papacy is the Antichrist of Revelation.
As for gay people, they are mentally ill.
>>563194
> I wish i converted when 4chan was majority christian and atheists were told to gtfo back to reddit
When was this? 4chan is more Christian friendly than ever before in the 10 years I've been here.
>>563235
>pagan europe
>"ooga booga where da roman women at"
>christian europe
>science, theology, philosophy
>colonization, conquerors of the world
>>563252
>conveniently forgetting the massive rural exodus that happened after the fall of Rome, resulting in centuries of feudal stagnation
>>563235
>pre-Christian Europe: child sacrifice and zoophilia
>Christian Europe: a dozen of burn witches in Northern Europe and women prevented from whoring around
>post-Christian Europe: mass genocide of peasants, promiscuity and degeneracy
Make your choice.
>>563165
It will put a pinpoint on the actual issue of religious freedom in the middle east. They won't be able to keep everyone under a homogeneous blanket so long as free media like the internet keeps leaking different ideas.
>be an existential nihilist
>never have to worry about anything
help me
>>564097
I know you don't care about it, but you really need to study for the Science exam, buddy.
>>564094
>semitic religion
As opposed to japhetic religions?
>>564102
I'm 22, no exams for me
>>564109
why not try a different flavor? Buddhism? Hinduism? Tengri?
>>563183
>euphoria without the giving up magic
>>564109
And Chamistic.
>>563183
>believing that God let himself be killed by sweaty romans
>>563165
I don't think it will
Most ex-muslims in the ME want to leave it because they fear being found out and well you know islam has death as reward for apostasy and most people have crazy uncle Achmet who would kill you if he found out.
So even if their numbers where to grow at a drastic rate they won't be a force until much later when the stigma is removed.
In Europe it took hundreds of years between the enlightenment and post Victorian before atheists found wide acceptance. And that is without uncle Achmet the apostate killer.
If anything we in the West should take in the converts and atheists that face the fate of an apostate and give them asylum. And kick uncle achmet and his ilk out right the fuck now.
I don't care if my country became a bit browner as long as it remains Western and the uncle achmets are fucking it up for everyone.
God knows we have more then enough uncle Achemt's being born in the west without more immigrating.
If not Deus Vult will find many taking up the cross even a heathen apostate and leaver of the Church like me.
>the feel when the pope is a pussy
>and the next one will be even more soft
>might as well get a female pope at this point
>>563283
>conveniently forgetting the massive rural exodus that happened after the fall of Rome, resulting in centuries of feudal stagnation
And? That stuff was inevitable.
Tiberius and Gaius Gracchus realized that Rome's military model was unsustainable in the long term. They pushed for reforms in the Senate, but their ideas were unpopular (since they would adversely affect the rich landowners who controlled the Senate) and their attempts to push these reforms led to their murders (one was beaten to death by the senate). Not long after that, the Gracchi's fears soon came to pass. A man named Gaius Marius was assigned to raise an army, only to find that there just weren't enough qualified troops in all of Italy. For instance, Rome's laws required soldiers to own land, but all the land was owned by a handful of people, which was exactly the sort of thing the Gracchi foresaw. Marius reformed the army to eliminate some of these requirements, but even his reforms only slowed Rome's decline rather than stopping it.
>>564118
Because those are satanic religions.
"and ye shall be as gods!"
Pantheism in a nutshell.
>>564242
>Pantheism in a nutshell.
Are you perhaps searching for another word?
Gnosticism, maybe?
>>564234
its kinda funny because iran is slowly becoming a post islamic state.
all their islamic autism is burning off as their population, especially women become more educated
>>563303
It's well known that the witch hunts were gender biased and unfairly targeted women mostly.
>>564118
>Hinduism
Why would you want him to shit on a street?
>>563165
>Does the timid growth of arab atheists offer any danger to Islam homogeneity in Middle East, or is it just a stupid ilusion?
What is this Islamic homogeneity you speak of?
Muslims are too busy persecuting one another: Salafis VS non-Salafi Sunnis VS Shiites VS non-Sunni, non-Shiite Muslims.
Allah may be one, but Islam is anything but.
>>563165
Could someone explain to me the phenomenon of middle aged unmarried Iranian women converting to Christianity?
several of my Iranian friends have also noted this but can't really put a finger on the cause for it..
>>563165
Also, Iranian Azeri here:
Don't know about Arabs, but back when i was in Iran most of my peers were pretty secular and casual when it comes to Islam. People are pretty non-religious, but not full fedora and anti-everything Islam like LA Persian will have you believe.
Also, the Farvhar- the Zoroastrian necklace is at least as commonly worn as the Sword of Ali
>>564957
>Iran is a hopeless fucking nightmare
>doubly so for women
>try to integrate into a civilization that still has signs of life
>>563235
>It would not be much different to burning women for 'being witches'
Charlemagne outlawed that.
>>565028
Okay, i will ignore that bullshit.. but assuming that was true..
why particularly unmarried middle aged women?
>>565048
Charlamagne also hated Saxons in England and painted them as traitors to Chrianity for not supporting his grandfather Charles Martell against the Moorish invaders.
what is your point
>>563303
>forgetting the catholic-protestant wars which took place all across of europe
>>565092
>barbarians keep raiding your churches and towns
>implying action against them isn't justified in this case
My point is that you cannot use witch hunting to criticize Christianity when it is/was outlawed by Christians
>>564328
>educated
You mean influenced by western media?
Iranians train their women in the sciences partly so that they can realise the rational arguments for God as truth rather than the ignorant ramblings of pop stars.
>>565079
Because they want the Chad and Beta provider Culture that comes with Western Culture
They are likely unmarried because Middle Eastern Men obsess over Purity unlike Chads of the west
>>565079
They slept around, no one particularly wants them, so they rebrand their faith in God into something that will get them a "Western man".
That or they think they can marry Jesus.
>>565140
Wait... Iranian anon here... you fellas actually are fine with a girl that has had a sexual past ??
>>563303
Here, have a few cherries. They're realy good for confirming false biases.
You'll love them
Ex muslim here, ask anything.
>>563240
>islam is a race
>>564112
You don't go to university?
>>565164
I'm not, but the culture here in Europe has degraded to the point where young women are seen as weird if they aren't sexually active. It's hard to find a girl over the age of 18 in my country that hasn't been groped/fingered at least.
It's sad, dadash.
>>565164
Yeah.
>>565164
Chads usually end up being misogynist once they mature and Red Pilled Conserative Men aren't and they either look for a traditional wife or become MGTOW
Only Beta providers think that Western Women are wife material
>>564957
middle aged women tend to go kinda wacky spiritually.
A weird version of male mid life crysises.
>>565201
what now?
>>565321
*tips fez*
>>565333
Disappointing.
>>565201
Have you ever actually read the Quran?
>>565341
Yes.
>>565343
Are you aware it's not supposed to be all literal?
>>565365
Literal or not, i disagree with concept of god. If i believed in god, i would be muslim.
>>565201
oh yeah, and what made you become an ex?
Truthful answer, not some cliche cringy response.
>>565371
Oh, well. I'll pray for you, akhi.
Nouman Ali Khan was once like you, as was I.
>>565380
>We don't need a god.
From what perspective do you say this?
>>565390
God is not necesarry at all i say. Everything is perfectly consistent without a god.
And particularity to region of religions just makes them funny for me. Millions of people died without hearing I of islam. There are three possibilities
1- They go to hell which is unjust but consistent
2- They disappear like animals, inconsistent
3- They go to heaven, unjust for muslims and inconsistent
>>565406
>God is not necesarry at all i say. Everything is perfectly consistent without a god.
How does it prevent the Universe from being an infinite recursity?
> Millions of people died without hearing I of islam.
And you just found out about the dilemma known as the "fate of the unlearned". Theologians have gone through this in the past millenia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDtYI4TzsUY
>>565406
>Millions of people died without hearing I of islam
The Quran doesn't condemn these people. They stay on Al-Araf (purgatory) for a time before being accepted into Heaven.
That's unless they were unjust people who harmed others.
>>565432
*millenias(?)
>>563183
>Actual ex-Muslim here.
good for you!
>I converted to Christianity after doing alot of research and study. It is the truth.
oh wait.
still it's better than islam
>>565201
What was the reaction of your family when they knew you're not muslim anymore (if they know)?
>>565374
Have you checked out Bayyinah? Their arab program is amazing, I'm actually learning to read quran on my own.
Salaam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh, ya akhi
>>565432
>How does it prevent the Universe from being an infinite recursity?
What?
Are you going to make a "first cause" argument?
>>563214
>Yes, we should go back to sacrificing children to underworld gods, having orgies in temples, sex with animals and running around naked in the forests.
That sounds amazing, except for the children-sacrificing and only Carthaginians did that. Carthaginians got rekt, and they were, surprise surprise, semitic.
>>565469
something like that.
Potentials and actuals and all that.
>>565459
They don't know. My mom and dad are divorced, mom probably would expell me from home. Father wouldn't care much. I'm still in uni but i think i could manage to get a state dorm.
>>565480
I was in your situation. Tell them, akhi. A secret like that causes a rift, even if you're not aware of it being there.
Give them a chance to accept you.
>>565493
>akhi
I'm not arab btw. But i'm happy with my status quo until i get my economical independance.
>>565480
Oh, that sucks. Good luck establishing yourself, anon.
>>565500
I feel ya, brother.
I waited until leaving for college in a different country. It was tough, but the unburdening was immense.
>>565103
>forgetting how many wars were fought between Catholic nations, and how many were fought between Protestant nations.
>forgetting that leaders will use literally any excuse to justify war
>>565474
Please don't.
Most of it is just language games. Most people that try to back themselves with metaphysics end up confusing the laws of cognition for something that is inherent to external reality rather than their own limitations.
As for the need of a first cause, you guys say the universe needs a beginning because everything does. So you add a creator to the model, an entity that, for some reason, is to be exempt from this rule. And so, instead of simply revising the rule, you use the rule to justify the existence of something that contradicts the rule. And it just adds an entity that wasn't needed.
You could have said the universe didn't have a beginning but instead you went the extra mile to say it has a beginning, and that the cause of the beginning, this entity, doesn't have a beginning.
>>565511
So do you believe that this argument implies that God is living in another material universe similar to ours?
It doesn't. God can be uncaused because he is not part of "His" Creation, but rather encompasses it.
theocrats need to be genocided
>>565525
Militant atheists [b]will[/b] be.
>>565511
>. So you add a creator to the model, an entity that, for some reason, is to be exempt from this rule.
It isn't "for some convenient reason", it's by definition.
>You could have said the universe didn't have a beginning
Except we aren't in an unchanging, eternal universe. C'mon, even Sagan commented on that(along with every philosopher in Greece. Your side lost, btw. It wasn't atoms ;p)
>>563165
"Islam homogeneity"? are you serious?
Islam is rich of different school of thoughts and philosophical niances between various groups and sects. there is no "homogeneity"
>>565686
They're all part of Islam, though. You are describing nuances within a homogeneous situation.
>>565716
I don't think you know what homogeneous means.
>>565600
>we aren't in an unchanging, eternal universe
Maybe it is eternal, maybe it isn't. There are valid theories for both hypothesis. Eternal inflation is one such theory that offers a model of an eternal universe that is consistent with current data.
Never said unchanging, btw. Not sure where you got that.
>It isn't "for some convenient reason", it's by definition.
There it is: the word games. You define God as something that is exempt from this rule.
Now you can say that your definition of God is right, that it is widely accepted by prominent thinkers.
I can do the same in the opposite direction: the universe is everything that exists so something that isn't part of the universe doesn't exist. If something doesn't fit in with the rules of the universe, then it can't exist.
I'm actually agnostic, far from a militant atheism, but when I see some Aquinasfag using word games to "prove" God, I gotta step up.
>>565447
>The Quran doesn't condemn these people. They stay on Al-Araf (purgatory) for a time before being accepted into Heaven.
The most moral thing you could do in this case would be to completely remove any mention of the religion. That way, people would go to heaven or hell based on whether they were morally good or bad, rather than based on their particular cultural contexts/exact exposure to the religion.
>>565201
Do you enjoy pork and getting more shit done now that you dont have to drop everything and pray 5 times a day?
>>565915
That's what Islam is about. Don't let the Arab supremacists and American lapdogs convince you otherwise.
Believing in One God is required, though.
>>565985
>That's what Islam is about.
From a certain point of view, I guess. But a religion that holds people who make drawings of animate objects as the worst sinners, worse than murderers and rapists, doesn't really have a definition of "morally good or bad" that makes any sense to me.
>>566001
There is no mention of this in the Quran. It's only if it contributes to idolatry.
(Virtuous) Art is encouraged in Islam, as it expresses our souls. Wahhabis pulled the abolition of art out of their behinds.
>>564159
Fake quote is fake
>>566015
Quaranism isn't the mainstream opinion, as far as I know. "Islam" as a whole includes hadith, which are extremely clear on who the most severely punished people on the Day of Resurrection will be.
>>566033
>medieval prince doesn't like x group of people
>hasn't properly read the Quran since he was forced to as a child, only "practices" Islam in public
>can't change anything in the Quran since everyone would notice
>knows a hadith collector
>tells him he'll pay him handsomely if he includes a new hadith in his collection demonising said people, even though it may somewhat contradict the Quran
>he can now "justifiably" confiscate their lands and property, and enslave them; making a handsome profit
It would certainly explain all the hadith like:
>read x verse 48 times and you will be cured of y ailment
We know plebs really tried Muhammad's patience, so he can't have said this tripe.
