At what point did the Islamic World begin to lag behind Europe? It seemed that for hundreds of years, the Islamic World was a serious rival to Europe.
1258.
by what standards?
>>43306
I'm guessing everything other than militarily
When they ran out of Greeks to rip off
>>43174
this
it's awful hard to recover after the mongols buttfuck you that bad
I think the siege of Vienna in 1683 marked the final end of the Islamic world as a threat to Christian Europa
But the process had begun much earlier of course, perhaps in 1492 when the Reconquista ended/America was discovered
>>43306
science, philosophy, education, health and sanitation, wealth, infrastructure, etc
>>43417
>calling everyone with whom you disagree with a /pol/tard
>>43387
Russia managed to do it, though. Why could they and not the Muslim world, Ottomans aside?
>>43449
I don't think 1492 is accurate at all. Even if most of the Muslim states were weak at that point, there was still the Ottoman juggernaut who continually put pressure on Austria and Poland, and Ottoman decline didn't really start until the late 17th century, when they had a long string of shitty rulers, plus the Janissary revolts.
>>43592
present citation
did the "Islamic Golden Age" occur because of Islam, or in spite of it?
>>43124
>serious rival to Europe.
>rival
That's rather insulting and deprecating for a power that outright looked down on Europe at certain points in history.
>>43124
I think the process started around the 17th century, and became very apparent in the 18th.
>>45282
It occured before Islam was even a thing.
>>45282
Because of it most definitely.
If we think of the things necessary for a golden age to occur, for great developments in technology, sciences, research, restructuring of social order etc. requires order, stability, prosperity, unity. All of these things were bought by the invading arab muslims and conquests under Islam.
One might say - yeah but a hypothetical 'other' monoentity might have flourished just as well but you would be forgetting that 'drive' or an impetus to innovate and advance needed to be there as well which again was something bought by early Islam and the nascent rise of Islam.
“The ink of the scholar is more sacred than the blood of the martyr”
>>43124
The three major early modern Islamic empires (Ottoman, Safavid, Mughal) began to stagnate around the 17th century.
Too much centralization of power, too great of a reluctance to change and reform economically in an increasingly globalized economy, and too great of a lack of an impetus to invest in scientific innovation and discovery (unlike their Abbasid predecessors of the Islamic Golden Age).
>>43124
Wasn't Bagdhad burned to the ground by mongols?
>>45531
>and too great of a lack of an impetus to invest in scientific innovation and discovery
What do you mean by this? The Safavids, Ottomans, and Mughals certainly had rivalries with each other, as well as various western powers (Russia and Austria for the Ottomans, Russia and Britain for Safavids, and Britain for the Mughals) and I can't think of a better impetus than that.
>>45598
He fucked em up real good, based Temujin.
Discovery of Murricas desu senpai
>>45484
That's one dudes opinion if it isn't in the Hadith or Koran.
>>45091
>but Russia
>Ottomans aside
you just broke the discussion
Ottoman empire is how the muslims recovered from the mongol invasio
This meme still exists eh?
If the Islamic world was a serious threat to Europe they would've conquered Europe. God knows they tried.
Islamic Spain was shit
Most of the Caliphate was desert backwater full of illiterate peasant goat fuckers
Baghdad was the only real intellectual powerhouse in Islamic history and that's only because the Caliph ignored Islam
Shitty fatalistic theology makes for a shitty fatalistic civilization
>>43124
It didn't "start to lag behind europe". It got fucked by the mongols when they sacked Bagdad in 1258.
>>48203
“The ink of the scholar is more sacred than the blood of the martyr” - Muhammad, Prophet of Islam
>>45091
russia lagged far behind the rest of Europe in science philosophy education wealth military and infrastructure for nearly all of its history though
>>48457
"Damn, 9 year old vagina is tight" - Muhammad, Prophet of Islam
>>43592
Its not because you disagree with him, its because you imply the likes of Ibn al-Haytham, ibn Zakariyā Rāzī, and al-Khwārizmī just "ripped off" the Greeks and contributed nothing original to their fields
They used the Greeks as a baseline sure, but they expanded on that baseline stupidly far beyond what they they started with.
Besides if you are gonna call taking a previous civilization's work and building off it "ripping off" Then Renaissance Europe ripped off the Arabs, who ripped off the Greeks, who ripped off the Minoans and the Egyptians, all the way back to when the Sumarians, who probably ripped off hunter-gatherers somehow
>>48089
Hulagu. Genghis was long dead by then.
>>48613
