Was he innocent? Was he guilty?
Why did the Allies let him go?
Discuss, /his/.
Some of his relatives were legit war criminals who escaped justice.
Hirohito himself, I doubt it.
>>431184
It's not good business to dispose of the leader, one that the people still held in high regard, of a country you're about to occupy and basically tell, "You're doing this because we aren't coming back over here again to deal with you."
Plus, there was always the threat of "If we get rid of him, those fucking Communists might set up shop."
>>431184
No
Probably
Because politics of keeping Japan under heel post occupation
"We were ordered to go die for victory. . . . Who gave the orders for that stupid war? The closer you get to the emperor, the fuzzier everything gets."
-Saburo Sakai, Japanese fighter ace
>>431214
I might also add that MacArthur, that fucking genius, convinced Hirohito not to kill himself and not to abdicate. Whether it was genuine or not, MacArthur placated the hell out of Hirohito. In the end, it worked out well for both Japan and the United States.
They're doing their thing, we're doing ours. We're both doing well.
He was complicit, but there was also a sort of gun to his head. If he'd been too outspoken or attempted to interfere in the war prematurely, he'd have been placed under house arrest and muzzled by the general staff. Nobody's going to depose him or anything but he could certainly be silenced. Even on the point of total ruin there was an attempt by fanatics to stop him getting involved as he was preparing to broadcast a surrender.
As for leaving him in power, it was a moment of uncommon empathy and genius. It's difficult to understand the Japanese relationship with their emperor but it transcends head of state and even religious awe. Removing him would have been a monumental mistake. It would be like abolishing the papacy after WW2. He was as sacred a cow as they come and having the wit to understand that was pretty impressive, given the mindset of your average 1940s American.
>>431184
He was a yesman to his own advisers. He wasn't a puppet monarch and he maintained a large amount of political power but he didn't use it. He was above politics so to say and thus he was allowed to remain as such.
>>431250
There was no "gun to his head". He wanted to kill himself for being DISHONORABRE; MacArthur said chill the fuck out, I got you. MacArthur arrests all these higher-ups that were either calling for Hirohito to commit harakiri or trying to do it themselves.
>>431279
I think he meant the gun of the Japanese military. They were pretty rabid and it isn't unreasonable that they'd have muzzled him as the guy said.
'Gun to his head' probably implies a worse fate than he might have expected, though. I doubt they'd have murdered him. But he was the only one with the (theoretical) power to tell the military what to do and it's feasible that a military with ambitious leadership would make moves to ensure he didn't.
>>431305
>>431279
"Gun to his head" referred to his not being at liberty to really oppose the war even if he wanted to, because if he'd tried to do so, he would have been silenced. Not likely deposed or killed, because as I said such a thing was unthinkable for even the most rabid Japanese militarist. He could be kept from speaking out, however.
So while he was complicit, there is a component of duress. I do not think he could have stopped it, even if he wanted to.
>>431305
I think it was very clear from their first meeting that MacArthur told Hirohito he wasn't going anywhere and he actively made sure no one contested that. MacArthur was very vigilant in going after the troublemakers.
>>431315
>he could be kept from speaking out
Well that probably explains why both interviews he gave to American journalists after the surrender had questions submitted before hand and the responses were written, not spoken.
>>431251
Not really. Him swinging over to the side of the militarists after the death of the Taisho Emperor pretty much cemented their superiority in Japanese politics and their path towards War. if he had done nothing like his dad (or his son right now), it would not have destabilized Japanese politics to the point that politicians were getting killed by military officers and the public was agitating for war with China.
>>431315
>He could be kept from speaking out, however.
He was openly supportive of the Japanese military. Before then during the reign of his father (who was incapacitated) there was a delicate balance between the civilian and military that was slowly being eroded. His ascension tipped it over all in favor of the militarist factions as he used his imperial authority and power to openly support and pardon people who were assassinating public figures deemed pacifists or anti-military (as in not wanting the military to start wars they might not be able to win or work within the existing international framework).
>>431336
Fair enough. As I said he was certainly complicit. However being a rubber stamp because what choice have you got is a bit different than being a driving force.
My point is more that he couldn't have stopped it if he wanted to. Perhaps he didn't, but that still complicates the moral picture.
>>431343
It would have helped if he didn't just pardon people who had successfully killed publicly elected figure just because they didn't agree with them. The Emperor of Japan doing that was a big deal, it showed everyone what side he was on and people still supported the position as above politics (because of the Meiji Emperor) and he dragged the position down into what was early 20th century Japanese politics. Both his grandfather and his son (right now imo) both did a much better job at being above the fray and representing the position of Emperor rather than being an Emperor-politician like Hirohito.
>>431184
remorse over the atomic bombs lead the americans to try to hold japan together post war and not let it devolve into chaos. an important part of that in the mind of mcarthur was preserving the strong image of showa leadership that had given the nation its unity and purpose basically since the meiji restoration
>>431184
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Yasuhiko_Asaka
>this nigga was directly involved in the Nanjing massacre and never got tried for warcrimes because ROYAL FAMILY IMMUNITY
>Hirohito did nothing wrong
>>431213
one of his uncle, Prince Akasa, was most likely the man who issued to the order to execute all PoW after the battle of nanjing.
on the other hand you have people like his youngest brother, Takahito, who was not only opposed to the war, but also wrote indictments of the Japanese army's conduct in China (which was censored by the military) and even called for his brother to take responsibility and abdicated after the war, in favour of his son (which was shut down by MacArthur)
that family was a mixed bunch
>>431626
>xecute all PoW
wholesale rape and murder of civilians - not POWs
>After the defeat of Japan in World War II, many members of the imperial family, such as Princes Chichibu, Takamatsu and Higashikuni, pressured then Emperor Hirohito to abdicate so that one of the Princes could serve as regent until Crown Prince Akihito came of age.[7] On 27 February 1946, Prince Mikasa even stood up in the privy council and indirectly urged the emperor to step down and accept responsibility for Japan's defeat. U.S. General Douglas MacArthur insisted that Emperor Hirohito retain the throne. According to Minister of Welfare Ashida's diary, "Everyone seemed to ponder Mikasa's words. Never have I seen His Majesty's face so pale."[8]
Holy shit can MacArthur be any more of a cunt seriously?
>>431184
He should have been taken to Nuremberg, tried and hung.
>>431648
not denying that. But there was a specific order to kill all captives taken in the battle issued before the battle. There's debate about over whether Prince Akasa issued it himself, or whether it was issued in his name by his ultranationalist aide, but either way he was the commanding officer at the time (General Iwane Matsui being sick with malaria and not being present at the time)
>>431184
The question of whether or not he was guilty was immaterial by the end of the war. If we were interested in justice, most of the Japanese officer class and chunks of the imperial family would dance at the end of a rope after the war and we would have let the world know about the practice of cannibalism as an official policy directed at cut off troops. Yes, this is something that the IJA actually did.
However, if we had done that, we risked rebellion and post-war reconcilliation would have been impossible. If your goal is to keep a cock-up this massive from happening again, it follows that you would then stay your hand. So, yes. Some legitimately bad actors got away with horrible things.
But it's never about justice. It's about practical killing. Who do you take out of the gene pool as a means of securing peace, prosperity and stability that will keep more people from dying?
>>431230
>I might also add that MacArthur, that fucking genius
2/10 bait. Report to /b/ for remedial training.
>>431184
Anyone dumb enough to attack America with limited resources when the guy in charge of the military knew they were going to lose probably wasn't much of a threat anyway. Or if it wasn't his call, then he's a useless puppet.
>>431184
Nah, the Emperor was a puppet as he had been since the Tokugawa Shogunate.
>>431673
>Yes, this is something that the IJA actually did.
Let us be honest the IJA's had almost an non-existent conception of logistics that entailed their troops live off the land by eating grass to survive. Really the organization like most Japanese institutions was dysfunctional.
>>434330
You have to understand most of the top IJN officers (not just Yamamoto) or anyone of their people who had spent any time in America knew it was ridiculous. Yet the dysfunctional politics of the era that saw Britain and America as the enemies of Japan because of the Washington Naval Treaty or wanted to one up the Army that was in China pushed for it.
>>431184
Innocent and I don't understand why there's a recent surge in anti-emperor propaganda. For what purpose is it for?
>>434529
Aside from any horrors like that, it just boggles my mind how for such an isolated and import-dependent nation the Japanese seemed to have no concept of modern logistics during WW2. They never even set up a naval convoy system, which let tons of supply ships be sunk by the allies.
>>431184
He gave legitimacy to Japan's surrender and the occupation government (so did the nukes). Japan was already willing to conditionally surrender before the nukes. Letting him live was just capitulation to some of the terms of surrender.
There's also a huge strategic reason to keep him in place, this is often overlooked. The air base on Okinawa. This is a huge one, it's America's primary interest and military base in the region. It's at least as important as having a post-war ally in the Cold War.
>be okinawa
>be vassal of china
>get invaded by japanese who make you into a puppet state
>be okinawa
>get annexed by japan
>forced to wear wood placards identifying you as okinawan
>active efforts to stamp out your culture
>"encouraged" to leave japan and okinawa, which is why japanese out of japan tend to be okinawan
>be okinawa
>japan declares war on america
>be given bamboo spears and grenades
>bear the brunt of american attack
>be told its better to grenade your children to avoid being raped and tortured
>be okinawa
>want independence after wwii because you never liked japan anyways
>occupation government stays longer in okinawa than japan proper
>american martial law
>americans sign secret accord allowing okinawa to be part of japans post war territories
>as long as america gets an air base
>need emperor because theres no one else that can make a legitimate claim to okinawa being part of japans territories
>be okinawa
>to this day japanese discriminate against you when applying for jobs
>americans blame you for wwii because battle of okinawa
>american soldiers rape your children but japan dont give a fuck
The only guilt His Majesty had was not winning. East Asia would be a far better place if he had.
>>434583
cont.
Keep in mind, Okinawa was only part of Japan during the modern Imperial era when it was annexed during Meiji, and was only officially part of Japan for less than 70 years. Taiwan (Japanese Formosa) was actually a Japanese territory longer than Okinawa was. The only way to claim Okinawa was an integral part of Japan's territories and could not be given up was admitting the Imperial lineage was legitimate. The occupation government stayed in Okinawa 20 years longer, it ended in Japan in 1952, but ended in Okinawa only in 1972 (parts of the archipelago were turned over earlier though). Documentation of secret negotiations with the emperor to return Okinawa to Japan in exchange for the right to bases are found in letters dated 1947, and possibly could have existed prior. To this day, it is one of the more important air bases for America, and vital to projection of power in the region.
>>434583
>Occupational government stays longer in Okinawa than Japan proper.
wat
Japan annexed Okinawa 1879
As half Okinawan, in Okinawa, I would say the Okinawa-Mainland relationship is love-hate. Okinawans indulge in mainland culture in entertainment, food, language, etc.
Okinawans overall hate the Americans more than Japan.
>>434690
>Occupational government stays longer in Okinawa than Japan proper.
>wat
1952 vs 1972.
>Japan annexed Okinawa 1879
During the Meiji Era, 66 years prior to 1945. I did get the Taiwan dates mixed up though.
>Okinawans indulge in mainland culture in entertainment, food, language, etc.
There's a reason for that. That's because Okinawa underwent vast forcible Japanization efforts to diminish Okinawan culture. Hougenfuda were a thing.
>Okinawans overall hate the Americans more than Japan.
Of course you do. America doesn't give a fuck, because they negotiate with Japan, not Okinawa. Popular opinion in America is that Japan/Okinawa deserves it because of WWII. Japan is happy with scapegoating Americans, even though they won't do a thing about it.
>>434858
Popular opinion in America is that no one knows or cares. The vast majority of Americans have never heard of "Okinawa". (Which is a shame, but such is life.)
>>434887
What?
Americans know Okinwa for two things. The Battle of Okinawa, and the base in Okinawa.
Read the comments section of any American news source in relation to Okinawan rapes, American soldier crime, or whatever thing leads to Okinawans being angry about Americans, and you will see tons of posts about Okinawa deserving it for WWII.
Popular opinion is ignorance is retarded. You could just as easily say there is no popular opinion on a lot of things in America because Americans in general are ignorant.
>>434529
>Let us be honest the IJA's had almost an non-existent conception of logistics that entailed their troops live off the land by eating grass to survive. Really the organization like most Japanese institutions was dysfunctional.
This meme again.
IJA soldiers had a healthy high protein diet whenever they were stationed in any region that wasn't the bumfuck of nowhere.
>>436441
How does that contradict what he said?
He said their logistics was awful. What you said is a result of awful logistics.
>>436445
>eating grass
>no concept of logistics
That's not what happened at all.
>>434858
>1952 vs. 1972
I misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about the difference between the lengths of mainland japan's reign and America's reign.
>they won't do a thing about it
They do a thing about it. I think Futenma airbase is being moved sometime, and Camp Lester is being closed down. So there is some cooperation between local Okinawan government, Japan government, and American government.
>>431184
Hirohito certainly could have done more, but he was restricted by his status and the politics of the time. When Hirohito announced Japan's surrender over the radio, it was the first time in history that the public at large heard the voice of the Emperor of Japan. His position and title are tied to the very origins of the Yamato people themselves. Although the position of Emperor has been restricted in the past, especially during the various Shogunates and after the Meiji Restoration, his position as the representation of the soul of Japan also provided an opportunity to steer the people in a different direction.
>>431649
MacArthur was a piece of shit and an incompetent commander.
