Has anyone here even read Herodotus? It can't be believed. Any of it.
1. Book 3.102
>Here, in this desert, there live amid the sand great ants, in size somewhat less than dogs, but bigger than foxes. The Persian king has a number of them, which have been caught by the hunters in the land whereof we are speaking. Those ants make their dwellings under ground, and like the Greek ants, which they very much resemble in shape, throw up sand heaps as they burrow. Now the sand which they throw up is full of gold. The Indians, when they go into the desert to collect this sand, take three camels and harness them together, a female in the middle and a male on either side, in a leading rein. The rider sits on the female, and they are particular to choose for the purpose one that has but just dropped her young; for their female camels can run as fast as horses, while they bear burthens very much better.
Is it apropos that the "Father of History" seemed to just reiterate stupid stories he heard from a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy that knew the wife's cousin of some other guy who says that this thing happened?
The 300 at Hellespont is taken for true history; nothing could be more ridiculous. Thinking people can not believe it.
>>430456
>Is it apropos that the "Father of History" seemed to just reiterate stupid stories he heard from a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy that knew the wife's cousin of some other guy who says that this thing happened?
But anon, Ibn Khaldun railed against exactly that
>>430472
Go on.
>>430483
>>430456
Herodotus is massively entertaining because you're literally reading 2500 year old bar stories sorry about your autism I guess
By the way they found a species of marmoset that digs up gold dust in India that slightly resemble large ants so you got BTFO
>>430509
Although this list misses a lot of what's charming about the text, where Ibn Khaldun is griping about specific stories that are obvious bullshit like Alexander the Great building a submersible and shit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold-digging_ant
>French ethnologist Michel Peissel claims that the Himalayan marmot on the Deosai Plateau in Gilgit–Baltistan province of Pakistan, may have been what Herodotus called giant "ants". Much like the province that Herodotus describes, the ground of the Deosai Plateau is rich in gold dust. Peissel interviewed the Minaro tribal people who live in the Deosai Plateau, and they have confirmed that they have, for generations, collected the gold dust that the marmots bring to the surface when digging burrows.
>n his book, The Ants' Gold: The Discovery of the Greek El Dorado in the Himalayas, Peissel conjectures that Herodotus may have confused the old Persian word for "marmot" with that for "mountain ant" because he probably did not know any Persian and thus relied on local translators when travelling in the Persian Empire. Herodotus did not claim to have seen the gold-digging "ant" creatures, he stated that he was simply reporting what other travellers told him.
>>430514
>your autism I guess
He's the chief image of this board. He's regarded as the "Father of History". More people believe 300 is real than don't. How is this autism?
People were smaller back then so ants seemed bigger.
Fuck off to Reddit OP; Herodotus simply presented the information he acquired, as that was part of his methodology. He even states when he does not trust the source.
You've got to be a retarded autist to not enjoy Herodotus and see his worth.
And remember those flying snakes he said were in Egypt?
https://youtu.be/HMs8Cu8PNKM
>>430532
Herodotus literally says it was 300 Spartans and 7k other Greeks. He doesnt say only 300 Spartans fought 6 gorillion Persians you twit.
>>430532
Because who gives a fuck about accuracy you autist, just read what the man who traveled the ancient world and wrote down all the funny and crazy stories he encountered has to say.
Herodotus doesn't say it was only 300 against the Persians, he says it was about 5000.
I bet you haven't even read Herodotus.
>>430524
Entirely absurd. If you believe this, you will believe anything.
"Ethnologist" earned his grants.
>>430551
That is literally what "history" meant back then, too.
"Herodotus' account of the battle, in Book VII of his Histories, is such an important source that Paul Cartledge writes that "we either write a history of Thermopylae with [Herodotus], or not at all" "
>>430551
He never left his home.
I just wanna know cwho the fuck the fish eaters were
>>430556
>it proves me wrong, so I'm going to ignore it
Take him down. He should not be the symbol of this board.
Take it down.
>>430561
That's not true.
>>430568
Fuck off OP
>>430558
Exactly, like nigga what did you think the guy was gonna do? Hit up the local university faculty lounge and chat about western imperialism with snooty cat women? All you could do was ask descendants of those who were alive for historical event X and hope the truth survived the intervening time in one piece
>>430574
People seem to forget he was one of the first prose Historians
>>430564
>because he probably did not know any Persian and thus relied on local translators when travelling in the Persian Empire
This cannot be believed by thinking people, that somehow marmots were confused with ants with ant bodies. It is too ridiculous to believe.
>>430568
He stays, shut up fag.
>>430581
>i have no idea how linguistics work and im proud
you
>>430578
>prose Historians
You mean novelists.
>>430588
His History isn't a novel, and it was written on Papyrus.
Modern history all started with Leopold von Ranke, but Herodotus can't be ignored for Western history.
>>430591
It's the first novel, predating Cervantes.
>>430598
You're trolling right
>>430611
Fake shit begone.
Repeat after me, fake shit begone. Herodotus wasn't any more an "historian" than Nabokov.
>>430617
he recorded things he heard about and which was to him and others for all intents and purposes a fact
if anything it gives us a look at how people back then saw the world
ie. history
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>>430617
Even if it was all false it still wouldn't be a novel you dense retard. And Cervantes wasn't the first novelist you illiterate pleb.
And it was a history, by the definition of the Greek word. You pleb.
>>430617
>he wasn't a proper historian who was the first to interview people and get a sense of the larger global community the Greek city states were only a small part of because anecdotes aren't always true
ayy lmao
>>430628
So long as you realize it's fake. He's the image of this board, like he actually recorded history. It's fake.
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w/e who gives a fuck, herodotus recorded idiocies.
>>430641
Fuck off to /mu/ or /fa/ you wetty
>>430532
300 constantly shits on Herodotus.
>>430532
300 constantly ignores and shits on Herodotus.
>>430641
>He's the image of this board, like he actually recorded history.
yeah
it's a history board
fucking cretin why are you even here
>>430660
Why is Herodotus even here? Might as well have Aeschylus on the sticky.
>>430669
Because he was a historian. Aeschylus was a playwright.
>>430675
"historian"
>>430641
How was he supposed to record history in his times, when he was the first? He didn't have the eases of our time or any time cose to us.
>>430641
>idiocies
>beep boop the stories, customs, oral history, and exotica of another culture don't merit recording because they might be embellished or exaggerated beep boop
>how cultures viewed themselves in the classical period has no historical value because we can't verify it 100% beep boop
Fuck off
>>430669
Because this is 4chan, where meme is supreme. Herodotus was a meme historian, just look at the OP.
>>430680
>meme this
>meme that
counterculture redditor please leave
>>430677
Yes, a historian.
>>430679
"historical"
Yeah, sure, kid.
I guess memes are 2015 "history" to you?
>>430677
full circle now aren't we
>>430688
Putting things in quotes isn't an argument, bub. Just stop posting already, you're just being a bit sad now.
>>430688
History literally means an "inquiry into" you absolute cretin.
>>430581
>This cannot be believed by thinking people, that somehow marmots were confused with ants with ant bodies.
He's saying the WORD "marmot" got confused for the "mountain ant" you spaccer.
>>430688
I have no arguments, I have probably not read Herodotus outside of wikipedia quotes and I have never found myself working with a limited amount of sources, so I'm just gonna put "" on words and hope all it's ok because "le father of lies xD rite guys?".
>>430696
I'majustagonna ignore your arguments bub and justagonna disagree witha your methods a there a bub.
>>430706
Okay
>>430703
Is that Greek?
Persian Fire by Tom Holland actually convincingly argues that a lot of what was disreagarded in Herodotus works by historians of the past can be trusted or at least it can be explained why he said that.
>>430706
Memes are a historical record of current Internet culture, if that's what you're asking. Just as the Three Hares or Kilroy Was Here are historical records of the culture of the culture of their times, even if all it says about the culture is "they liked this design" or "they thought this was funny enough to pass it along".
Every thing that happens is history, you dingus. You picking your nose and then scratching your ass is a historical event, even if nobody takes the time to record it.
More chosen pieces of herodotus books, like this gold digging ants?
>>430859
That's the only major criticism I've heard of Herodotus beyond the same blowing up of army numbers that practically every historical source from antiquity to the middle ages does.
>>430878
I'm not talking about critics, just interesting stuffs, stories or surprising things. The gold digging ants have been explained, it seems.
>>430859
Flying serpents in the red sea.
>>430592
Gibbon
>>430886
Oh. Well I'm currently reading it, but haven't gotten terribly far.
How about
>guy who was king(tyrant) gets kicked out of Athens
>next guy sucks massive dick
>someone goes to guy 1 and says he needs to come back
>dude gets some tall chick, dresses her up as Athena
>has some bros go running into town yelling "holy shit Athena herself is bringing the old king back"
>chick rides in with guy 1 in tow
>Athenians buy it and make him king again
I'm terrible at recalling Greek names desu
>>430886
I really loved the whole Croesus saga.
So you've got this King of Lydia right around the time the Persian empire is first getting on its legs. Croesus is your usual puffed up royalty, thinking he's the shit because his kingdom is fabulously rich, the whole deal. One day, the renowned Athenian statesman and sage visits his kingdom and Croesus decides to take him on a tour of his estates.
After Croesus shows off the last of his riches, self satisfied, he asks Solon 'so am I pretty much the happiest man on the planet or what?' And Solon's like 'nah nigga, I can never call a man happy who is still alive because it only takes an instant for fate to rob you of all your possessions and leave you miserable and destitute'. Then he tells Croesus a story of two young Athenian lads who did such a great service to their mother one day by hauling her into the market themselves after their mule had died, she prayed that the gods would grant them the greatest boon a mortal could receive: incidentally, they died peacefully in their sleep.
This really pisses Croesus off but he can't deny the wisdom behind it. Still rankled, he dismisses Solon and retires to his chamber.
There's more to the story, but eventually, convinced by a conveniently ambiguous declaration from an oracle that an "empire will fall" if he takes up arms against the burgeoning Persian empire, Croesus goes to war with King Darius.
Eventually he gets his shit pushed in and after witnessing the children of all the Lydian noble families murdered before him, he is about to be burned alive in full view of Darius and his entourage when he thinks back to what Solon said about the fickleness of fate and happiness. He cries out, "oh Solon! Solon!" which intrigues Darius and postpones his execution to ask what he meant by those words. Croesus tells him what the sage said, and Darius, recognizing something of his own bearing and wisdom in the man before him, calls off the execution
>>430886
Oh, also cyclops and griffins living north of Scythia:
>Herodotus also wrote that the 7th-century BC poet Aristeas wrote of the Hyperboreans in a poem (now lost) called Arimaspea about a journey to the Issedones, who are estimated to have lived in the Kazakh Steppe.[4] Beyond these lived the one-eyed Arimaspians, further on the gold-guarding griffins, and beyond these the Hyperboreans.[5] Herodotus assumed that Hyperborea lay somewhere in Northeast Asia.
>>430934
And has Croesus serve as an advisor of his war council from that point on. He pops up from time to time after that point, advising Darius on many difficult decisions and (maybe) even undermining his war effort right under his nose
>>430934
I was going to bring up Croesus after >>430916
Then there's the king whose bodyguard is his best bro. One day they're hanging out and he's like, "Lemme tell you, my wife is fuckin BANGIN" and his guard is like "I bet," just being polite.
King says "no really you gotta check this out" and sets up this whole scenario where the guard is hiding in the closet watching the queen strip, even though he does pretty much everything to get out of it.
The queen figures it out while it's happening, is fucking pissed, and calls the king in. She turns to the guard and says, "Either you die, or you kill my asshole husband and take his place."
Long story short, a new dynasty happens.
>>430943
One of Xerxes' most valued advisors was a certain eunuch who came from Phrygia, I think it was. Now this eunuch was abducted as a child and castrated by a man who did this for a living. The eunuch nursed his raging thirst for vengeance for decades as he worked up the ranks in the Persian court.
Eventually, right around the time Xerxes is about to invade Greece, this eunuch pays a visit to his hometown and incidentally runs into the man who castrated him. The guys like 'hey, shit, you turned out all right didn't you? I'd almost say you owe me a thank you lmao and the eunuch, playing this guy like a fiddle, starts gushing about how grateful he is and how he wouldn't be where he is now without what happened to him etc.
Eventually the he invites him and his family to move to the Persian capital of Susa where he will be rewarded for his service. The guy has no idea what's coming so he packs his shit and moves to Susa with his wife and sons.
Long story short, at the dinner party on the first night, the eunuch gets up and pretty much calls him the scum of the earth for making a living off castrating boys. He calls his sons into and forces the father castrate his own children, and then castrate himself.
Don't fuck with Persians ayy
>>430986
Yes, Cyrus, my fault
>>430947
Croesus is actually pretty loyal. Cyrus dies against the masagetae because he doesn't follow Croesus advice.
>>431011
I swear I remember reading Herodotus implying that Croesus seems to have an ulterior motive once or twice, but on the whole his advice does turn out to be sound
>>431005
There's something kind of spurdo about this.
>Aren'd you glad I cud off ur dig and bölls :DDDDDD
>>431025
It may be, it's been a long time since my last read of Herodotus too.
If any of you guys enjoy good literature and Herodotus, read Latro in the Mist by Gene Wolfe.
>>430515
>stories that are obvious bullshit like Alexander the Great building a submersible
that's honestly not impossible
>>431128
>Students often happen to accept and transmit absurd information that, in turn, is believed on their authority. Al-Mas'udi, for instance, reports such a story about Alexander. Sea monsters prevented Alexander from building Alexandria. He took a wooden container in which a glass box was inserted, and dived in it to the bottom of the sea. There he drew pictures of the devilish monsters he saw. He then had metal effigies of these animals made and set them up opposite the place where building was going on. When the monsters came out and saw the effigies, they fled. Alexander was thus able to complete the building of Alexandria
>It is a long story, made up of nonsensical elements which are absurd for various reasons. Alexander is said to have taken a glass box and braved the sea and its waves in person. Now, rulers would not take such a risk. Any ruler who would attempt such a thing would work his own undoing and provoke the outbreak of a revolt against himself, and be replaced by the people with someone else. That would be his end. People would not wait one moment for him to return from the risk he is taking.
>...
>All this throws suspicion on the story. Yet, the element in it that makes the story absurd for reasons based on the facts of existence is more convincing than the other arguments. Were one to go down deep into the water, even in a box, one would have too little air for natural breathing.
>>430703
>spaccer
I have not heard this word used properly for too long. Thank you anon
>>430859
He says nobody lives in Northern Europe because he heard that the land is literally covered with bees. He says that he can't believe this though, as bees abhor the cold, so he thinks instead the land is covered with bears.
So nobody lives in N. Europe (false).
>>431853
He also BTFOs the Scythian belief that the farther north you traveled in their lands, the more the landscape becomes shrouded by a "storm of feathers", which Herodotus conjectures is just snow
that's why I love the Histories, it sounds like some shit out of lord of the rings but it's how people genuinely believed the world was like.
>>430598
>predating Cervantes.
Are you implying Cervantes is credited to write the first novel?
