Hey /his/ Whats the difference between Proto-Indoeuropeans and Indo europeans?
>>416844
The 1.0 release
IEs: Indians, Poles, Germans, Italians, Iranians etc
Proto IEs: a single ethnicity
>>416859
Were Indo europeans the first settlers or was there someone before them? For example in eastern europe?
>>416876
>Were Indo europeans the first settlers or was there someone before them?
Well there were Neanderthals before the first sapiens settlers came at all.
>>416880
And to put it incredibly simply, when humans came from African and interbred with them, Europeans were made?
>>416844
Neanderthal Interbreeding
>>416888
'European' spans a lot of different and distantly related groups, like 'Asian' or 'African'. They were European in the sense that they were some of the first homo sapiens to be born, live and die in Europe. Would they be recognizable as modern Europeans today? Probably not.
>>416859
This.
Proto-Indo-European is the final common stage before the group fractured into Helleno-Armenians, Italo-Celts, Balto-Slavics, Germanics, (Indo-European) Anatolians, Indo-Iranians, Illyro-Thracians, and Tocharians.
These represent language families and in some cases only loose cultural groups since many divided early on (Helleno-Armenians, Italo-Celts, Indo-Iranians, for example).
>>416876
Europe was inhabited by a diverse number of pre-Indo-European peoples. Basques in Iberia are the most well known example.
The incoming Indo-Europeans assimilated the locals in most cases or drove them into isolated pockets.
>>416888
Haha, it goes to show that humans try to breed with anything that moves.
I have read somewhere that someone lived in europe before them, but since IEs had horses while locals didn't, IEs had military advantage, because of this they were able to conquer huge territories and assimilate into the societies that lived there effectively.
But I cannot find by googling any articles which say if someone lived there before them. Maybe there's not enough evidence?
>>416915
yo im balt actually, we split from slavs centuries ago.
>>416920
I think the latest theories have said that IE spread more peacefully and simply assimilated with the natives who slowly adopted their languages, instead of all outright conquests. Think of how influential say, French was just a few centuries ago that a lot of people learned the language without having to be conquered first.
>>416876
>>416904
PIE homeland is widely believed to have been in modern Ukraine, just north of and between the Black and Caspian Seas.
>>416920
>>416920
Indo-Europeans are not that old. 9000 years or something. Human remains and settlements found in Europe are over 40,000 years old.
Also unlikely that Indo-Europeans assimilated INTO native cultures, given the fact that it was their languages that became dominant and given the prevalence of common IE cultural features (werewolves, sky-fathers, etc).
>>416915
What's wrong with Slavs?
>>416952
>>416943
Not to be rude or anything, but I think when two very different cultures met I don't think back at that time there was much room for debate.
>>416955
>>416960
Genuinely curious.
>>416961
People who lived thousands of years ago weren't a whole different hyper-aggressive species. There would have been peaceful trade and migrations into empty territories, cultures becoming more popular than others, etc. Think of how influential black culture has been in America despite a lack of military conquest.
Of course there still would have also been raids and wars, but they just weren't the only mechanism.
>>416899
PROOF
WE WUZ PROTO-INDO-EUROPEANS N SHIT
>>416972
That is true, but I can't possibly imagine how conquest back in the day wasn't the main assimilation mechanism. There must have been a lot of conflicts between two vastly different tribes who just met. Language barrier could have brough confusion, frustration and with that - anger, and that tends to lead to conquest.
>>417000
Trips don't lie?
>>417000
Every culture is different. Some of them wouldn't be in any position to fight because they knew it would destroy them, so they submit from the start to avoid a war, or sometimes both sides will be more cautious with each other because they don't know how large the other is, so they also try to avoid escalating something. The Carthaginians were able to trade fine with Saharan peoples they had just met simply by throwing their goods to the ground while the Africans threw their gold down to trade, no need to understand each others' language.
>>417066
Genetic turnover is almost certainly a result of the fact that there were more incoming Indo-Europeans than native northern Europeans.
>>417066
>>417118
I see this posted all the time, what is it supposed to signify?
>>417118
Interesting
>>417091
The IEs were pastoralists living at a generally lower density than the farmers they replaced, so a peaceful-immigration/demographic-swamping model doesn't really make sense. It also looks like the population of northern Europe actually declined dramatically when they came in. Also notable is the really dramatic turnover in Y-DNA, which is much more total than with autosomal or mtDNA. Sorry.
>>417136
That the poster you're quoting is autistic.
>>417118
/x/ pls go.
>>417136
That is a fresco from Minoan Knossos, the largest Minoan Palatial centre.
The diagram alleges that the bull is a map of the Mediterranean region.
Story of Europa is one of the myths of Zeus raping her while he was a bull. Or at least carrying her away while a bull.
She wasn't actually the bull.
Fuck me if I know why it says 'Trojan Horse'.
>>417149
Wait wait wait.. you are saying that pre-indo europeans were actually agricultural already ?
I though agriculture came only after bronze age. Does this mean that pre-indo europeans were ahead of their time?
>>417149
Population can't decline too dramatically when settlements were all under 200 people to begin with, buddy.
I like how pastoralists are suddenly equatable to technologically superior war mongering horse riders though.
No evidence in Southern Europe of forceful displacement or subjugation of natives by incoming Greek speakers, who arrived before Italo-Celts and Proto-germanics, either. Destruction of sites is inconsistent and new pottery forms and norms appear alongside old ones suggesting cohabitation and assimilation.
>>417160
It is one entity you stupid retard, it is a political mechanism.
....she stands upon the beast...
ONE ENTITY
You people are so fucking stupid............
>>417149
Or do you mean farmers as in farming animals?
>>417175
Considering sedentary agriculture appears no later than Greek-speakers arrival to Greece, it would be logical to assume they brought it with them or that they got it from the Anatolian Indo-Europeans.
It'd have spread north and west.
Paleo Europeans wouldn't have had agriculture.
>>417183
Please kill yourself and stop posting your bullshit in every single thread where gods and mythology crop up.
Thanks.
>>417159
How is this /x/? I am completely grounded in the natural world, /x/ is Supernatural.
>>417198
Political Entity
>>417198
>>417160
MINOAN DNA
>>417216
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
>>417225
>>417229
STOP SPEWING NONSENCE
>>417175
Sedentary agriculture came in a few thousand years before the IEs, accompanied by a large demographic turnover. This is what the whole "Neolithic" category means--farming with stone tools.
The IEs were originally pastoralists, living on the fringes of the civilized world and adopting some agriculturalist practices without making a full transition. It looks like they had a fair amount of admixture from the northern Middle East, mostly female-mediated. (Too early to really say whether this part was peaceful or not.)
>>417193
This is simply not true. Agriculture appears in Greece around 7000 BC--three to four millennia before the IE expansion:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesklo
>>417179
The evidence is overwhelming that the IEs had a strong horse culture, associated with warfare and the elite strata, and that they were among the first peoples to use horses other than as a food source.
The same difference between the Latin tribe of central Italy and everyone in France, Romania, Spain, Portugal, South America, Central America, Mali, Niger, Senegal, Mozambique, Angola, Gabon, Chad, Congo, Ivory Coast, and Cameroon
>>417261
>NONSENCE
nonsense
>>417264
They exploded out of Mesopotamia/Anatolia in all directions.
I believe the bible calls the event, the Tower of Babel.
>>417270
I'm dumbp nendardarlian, pls
>>417278
The Bible is not a history book.
>>416876
>Were Indo europeans the first settlers or was there someone before them?
Genetically the R haplogroup is the Indo-European haplogroup that came from India over eastern Europe, to the west. The haplogroup I however is considered the proto-european one, evolving in Europe before the Indo-Europeans came. Today all Europeans have mixtures of both, however eastern slavs, germans, french and spanish have more R, while norse people like scandinavians and the south slavs like the serbs and croats have predominantly the I haplogroup. According to some geneticist, the I haplogroup developed in the area around the vistula river in poland or more southern towards southeastern europe, then migrated in two opposing parts one to the north the other to the south, the one in the norh mutated into the I1 strain while the one in the south to the I2 strain, some ages after that split the R haplogroup came to the continent from India and mixed with the I haplogroup thus creating the modern european people.
Bear in mind haplogroups are not nation, this happend ages before people developed unifying cultural traditions like language and religion which would later form individual ethnicities and nations.
>>417299
It is though. (OT)
>>417328
cont-
SUMERIA = SHINAR
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinar
>>417319
GREEKZ
WAZ
KANGZ
just give that to merkel so we can switch EU membership between them and turkey.
>>417319
We don't really know much more than that I looks like an Old Europe lineage and that R1b1a2 and R1a1a have Indo-European associations. Your map also implies a lot more regional uniformity than there actually is in most places these days. Other than in Celtic areas where there was strong paternal-line prestige until very recently, there's a lot of lineage diversity and the map only really tells you the plurality lineage in an area.
>>417328
>>417338
Adults are talking, dear.
>>417360
>Adults are talking, dear.
I encompass religion, history, and genetics. You are a moron.
>>417319
>came from India
No.
>>417216
>show me yours
>>417319
that is correct, haplogroup I are the descendants the Cro-Magnons of Europe. Only thing false is the development from the Vistula basin. The IJ haplogroup carried by the Cro-Magnon entered Europe from the the Middle-east 30 000 to 40 000 years ago via the Balkans, there it mutated into the I Haplogroup which expanded throughout Europe after the last glacial maximum. Haplogroup I is Europe's oldest major and only haplogroup whose point of origin is in Europe.
A genome of a 13,000 year old Cro-Magnon from Switzerland (Grotte du Bichon) from was sequenced, his haplogroup was I2a, the same one found predominantly in the Balkan Slavs (Croats and Serbs respectively) today.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M170#Origins
>>417358
Greeks are not haplogroup I, most of them are E-V13. Only Nords and Serbocroats are haplogroup I.
>>417225
>hey kid, wanna /ss/?
>>417360
Are you going to say that early myths, legends, and religions, many of which are more histories than anything, aren't useful for exploring the era? Even when new discoveries are finding the cities and places once thought to be myths but were lost under the sands?
>>417319
>>417383
not India, but present day Iran.
The SNP defining this haplogroup is believed to have arisen during the Upper Paleolithic era: about 19,000 – 34,000 years ago.(Hallast 2014) (Karafet 2008) The most likely geographical location for this is Central Asia since the immediate ancestor, the Haplogroup P is most often found at polymorphic frequencies in north Central Asia.
>>417430
>The greatest density of Haplogoup I is to be found in Bosnia and Herzegovina 65% -73%. Other higher than average densities occur in Serbia 48%, Croatia (mainland) 38%, Norway 40%, 23.6% of German males carry the haplogroup I mutation (highest frequency in Northern Germany 37.5%), Sardinia 37%, Sweden (North 26%, Gotland & Värmland 50%), Denmark 39%, Montenegro 38%, Iceland 33%, and West Finland 41%, though the figure drops in East Finland to 20%.
Interesting
>>417430
The original Greeks (EEF) were in the G group.
You guys underestimate the little guys:
T and G
>>416904
Apparently Basques actually represent a hybrid of (mostly) PIE and early IE. Like 75-25, but not 'pure'. I mean, obviously Basques today have even more Spanish admixture, but early Basques were likely pushed from somewhere further east (within Iberia or France), picked up a bit of Indo-European genes and then hunkered down in their isolated valleys. But even they are not 'pure' pre-Indo Europeans.
>>417421
>>417319
>>417497
>tfw remove kebab are genetic ancestors of the nordics
>>417000
Ever heard of cargo cults?
Also, total human populations were very small, and sparse. It would have been fairly easy for a agrarian IE village to 'co-exist' when their next nearest 'indigenous European' neighbours were nomads doing their own thing 60 km away. Trading fur pelts, amber and nubile teenagers for wheat pita-bread and horses and gold or whatever would certainly have existed.
I really don't think it's a whole lot different to modern humans... some violence, sure, but also some trade, inter-marrying, etc.
Can anyone challenge the veracity of this R1a migratory map?
>>417430
Why are you bringing up haplogroup I at all? I didn't reference it, or Germans. Clearly I meant that Greeks have no place in the EU since they are African.
This haplogroup image is also bullshit, as it merely represents the most dominant group in the region while Greece is incredibly diverse (as are most places)
Greeks also contributed 37% of the lineage of Sicily and yet your image insists that Sicily is primarily J2a.
>bullshit
Tell that to the authors of this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2985948/
>The genetic contribution of Greek chromosomes to the Sicilian gene pool is estimated to be about 37% whereas the contribution of North African populations is estimated to be around 6%.
I can find many other studies and genetic surveys that contradict the claim that 'most' greeks are E-V13. Here is another website with genetics for all regions of Greece:
http://gnosticwarrior.com/greek-dna.html
Which agrees that the 'largest' % is E variants, but also demonstrates high %s of J2.
>Eb1b1b
26%
>J2
21%
Another study, reported on by the BBC, indicates that (Minoan) Crete was European in origin and not Near Eastern, contrary to your image:
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22527821
>>417542
By PIE you mean Proto-Indo-European? If so, they'd represent the first break from the PIE group and then there is the question of why their language is not Indo-European.
Or do you mean Pre-Indo-European (Paleo European is a better term)
>>417543
>remove kebab meme
Serbs were literally the biggest kebab enablers in the Balkans. The only people to have massive conversions to Islam were the Serbs (Bosniaks) and the Albanians. They were Ottoman vassals and fought with the Turks for centuries against other Christians. The Serbs were one of the first to breech the walls of Constantinopol.
>>417661
Ya I don't know how that is relevant to some idiot claiming that a 3400 year old Fresco with half the paint missing thats is actually a map of the Med.
I am agreeing that Minoans were native (paleo) europeans but disagreeing with his ancient alien equivalent 'all cultures are worshipping the same god and all culture comes from the jews' bullshit.
>>417684
>some idiot claiming that a 3400 year old Fresco
I have a MSc level of education.
>>417638
I meant 'pre-Indo European'.
Early on, they had a slight admixture of Pre/Paleo-Indo-European. My guess is that this is more from their likely experiences further east or north before moving into their current area. But it's possible they were 'always' Iberians in their current area and allowed some early IE in, but then it seems hard to explain why they wouldn't 'allow' any more admixture over the next thousands of years... More sensible to me is that once they were settled in their forests/valleys and remote coasts, no one else showed up en masse.
But after this, there is no more great influx for thousands of years -- not until modern times, really. So they are not 'pure' in origins, but on the other hand are a very old and distinct lineage. Obviously, they kept the pre-IE language too.
>>417684
>I am agreeing that Minoans were native (paleo) europeans but disagreeing with his ancient alien equivalent 'all cultures are worshipping the same god and all culture comes from the jews' bullshit.
That has to be the most retard sentence I've ever read, that is fallacious projection, content that I never associate with.
>>417698
yet you're still a retard.
>>417707
cont-
Step Pyramid and Obelisk, you see the same in Brittany in France, Step Pyramid structures and Obelisks.
>>417702
There is no Paleo Indo European... you are either confusing terms or confusing me.
Paleo European is used to designate the inhabitants of Europe before the arrival of Indo-Europeans. Indo-Europeans are members of the IE language family.
PIE (Proto-Indo-Europeans) occupied the Black Sea/Caspain Sea/Ukrainian region.
When they fragmented they because Indo-Europeans, which just means that the PIE language spread to Europe and India.
IE groups are celts, greeks, germans, slavs, iranians, indians, etc.
Basques seem to be from France/Spain, and yes they concentrated to the west. Probably because of the celts.
As for not allowing more admixture, Iberia was notoriously violent. No reason to assume the celts and Basques got along, or whatever other native Iberian populations existed. Just how isolationist were they... well they fought the Romans for 200 years in Iberia.
>>417707
>>417718
Are you not the idiot advocating that the bull fresco is a map?
Are you not the idiot who yesterday insisted that Ahkentaten was Moses?
And that egyptian religious elements we can date to pre-unification egypt are semitic?
PIE is Yamnaya culture desu.
"Massive migration from the steppe was a source for Indo-European languages in Europe"
This paper talks about how europe was initially populated by hunter gatherers, then an early wave of neolithic farmers entered from the middle east.
Then a third wave entered rapidly about 2500bc. Genetic studies in the paper suggest they came from the yamnaya culture of southern russia, and the corded ware culture were about 75% similar genetically
>>417645
>Serbs were literally the biggest kebab enablers in the Balkans.
You mean Croats, they fought with Turks, they even wanted to establish an islamic state in Bosnia (picrelated croatian islamic soldier) in WW2. One could argue Croats are just a splinter group of Serbs like the Bosniaks, but they are not Serbs per se, also that would probably insult them since they are a very nationalistic people.
>>417768
This genetic chnage happened about the same time as the spread of the chariot, from more or less the same area.
Heres the full article.
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1502.02783.pdf
It also has nice graphs showing exactly how much of each of the 3 main european settler populations many current nations are made up of.
>>417756
>Are you not the idiot advocating that the bull fresco is a map?
Yes
>Are you not the idiot who yesterday insisted that Ahkentaten was Moses?
No
>And that egyptian religious elements we can date to pre-unification egypt are semitic?
No and Yes.
pic related
1 / 3
>>417815
2 / 3
>>417817
3 / 3
The tale of Isis and Osiris (same entity of masculine and feminine) is literally based in Byblos, Lebanon.
>>417822
3 / 3
forgot image
>>417797
They're the same people, just different religions. Croats = Venetian collaborators, Bosniaks = Ottoman collaborators, Serbs = Russian fanboy collaborators.
>>417812
Here you go you autists, the exact ratio of each european group of modern populations. No ned to argue bullshit about who is what based on bullshit your teachers told you any more.
There is a little bit of all three in each nation. No european country is completely hunter gatherer, or neolihic, or yamnaya (indoeuropean)
>sardinian over 90% early european neolithic, even more than basque
You cant make this shit up
>Scotland and estonia have some of the highest levels of yamnaya genes
Dat viking invasions
>>417851
Here's a hypothethical situation:
I'm a British white male European. I marry a Black woman from the Congo, I move to the Congo, and 6 of my descendants also marry Congolese women. Then my descendant moves to Germany and marries a White German girl.
What group would my descendant be in after marrying the German girl?
>>417879
your paternal haplogroup stays the same, even if you fuck niggers, your descendants would be by their paternal haplogroup, their genetic ancestry european (picrelated).
>>417922
I mean which group would I be matched to? EEF? CHG? WHG?
>Western Europeans nowadays are 10% African/Arab
Fucking lol
>>417930
>Welfare recipient.
I meant these groups here
>>417929
>>417815
>>417817
>>417828
Your source makes very good arguments for transfer of industrial/agricultural knowledge from the East into Egypt.
Unfortunately it doesn't take into account a few things, which I will touch upon briefly:
1) Buto'Maadi culture was contemporaneous with Naqada and subsequently displaced by it. Though I do not doubt that Naqada adopted pottery styles and techniques from the east, as you suggest.
That said, pottery does not signify a meaningful exchange of culture.
Naqada burial techniques are a continuation of middle egyptian practices that pre-date anything you've posted, and are (literally) opposite to what the Buta'Maadi did. Buta'Maadi burials faced West, while Badari and Naqada burials faced East.
East was where the Egyptians believed the Land of Reeds (afterlife) to be, and this carried on into unified Egypt.
2) Upper Egypt was the entity that unified Egypt and the original capital was Thinis, by Abydos. Thinis was the capital for at least 300 years.
After the old kingdom collapse it was once again Upper Egypt that reunified the nomarchs, and again the capital of that dynasty was Thinis until they retook Memphis.
The capital shift is almost certainly a result of trade and agriculture, as the delta is the most productive part of Egypt and closer to the sea and trade route with the Levant and Mesopotamia.
>>417970
>The tale of Isis and Osiris (same entity of masculine and feminine) is literally based in Byblos, Lebanon.
None of your images suggest that. Abydos was the chief cult center of Osiris and Hierakonpolis was the chief cult center of Horus. They are 2 of the 3 biggest Naqada sites. Abydos was the royal (and desu national) burial site of the first two dynasties because of this. Horus appears on the very first piece of Egyptian state iconography (palette of Narmer) along with Hathor, who another anon insists originates from sub-saharan and per-desterification traditions.
>>417970
Why would Egyptians use resin from the Cedar tree of Lebanon on their mummies?
Why would they use cedar trees from Lebanon for their doors?
Early Egypt and the Levant are the same culture.
>>417992
If you are the same person I responded to, I regret wasting the time to type anything.
Trees were Lebanon's largest export, they supplied everybody with trees. Egypt had a startling lack of trees and I can't imagine why that would be.
Your image is gibberish bullshit since the Egyptian burial isn't even facing the right way.
>>417992
>people this stupid are trying to argue on /his/
Has it occurred to you that the crook between knees and angled forward chest of a corpse represents a rather obvious 'free space' to lay shit in a grave? The pots are obviously totally different.
>>417976
You really need a drink.
> that's a metaphor in case you're too retarded to understand
>>417851
I suspect that the hunter gathers and early neolithic probably contain quite a bit of neanderthal dna too, but the paper doesnt go into that
>>417879
They probably wouldnt qualify as any, but youd have to look at the methodology. I think it used single nucleotide polymorphisms snps which are just random mutations in dna which may or may not have any effect, but are inherited and maybe are a good way of estimating time
>pic related
>why is lithuanian closest to pie? And also kept pagan until the 1400s? How come there is no records of lithuanian sncient religion even tho it survived so late?
>>418076
kek
> http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v18/n7/abs/ejhg2009231a.html
> http://dienekes.blogspot.ie/2010/01/r-v88-and-migration-of-chadic-speakers.html
> http://bellbeakerblogger.blogspot.ie/2014/10/origin-of-r1b-v88.html
>>418098
Maximum c.uckhold in effect
Early neolilithic migration was quite neanderthal i think
>>418076
>crook
GOAT HERDERS FROM THE ZAGROS MOUNTAINS
> Flail
EEF from Anatolia and Mesopotamia
>>418109
>Maximum c.uckhold in effect
South America, Mexicans?
>>418109
>c.uckhold
You can just say cuckold. Smh 2bh.
>>417812
>This genetic chnage happened about the same time as the spread of the chariot, from more or less the same area.
>the chariot
It's far from certain whether chariots first appear in the Near East or the steppe. The chariot itself is also so useless, its significance in any context it's used (mobile conquest or the chariot part cognates) is so overrated.
>>418098
Seriously, the possible spread of R1b is still so fascinating to me. I can't wait for more ancient DNA.
>>416899
They need lotion on them feet
>>418077
I don't understand your metaphor, nor the purpose of your image.
And in case someone decides to say that the names Byblos and Abydos are etymologically related, they are not.
>Byblos from Phoenician Gebal, Gubla in ancient Egyptian
>Ancient Egyptian name of Abydos is Adbju
>>418098
Burial is still not characteristically Egyptian buddy.
>>418118
Or cück
>>418163
>I don't understand your metaphor, nor the purpose of your image.
>>416844
I really want to fuck the one on the right
>>418473
Meh, same shit today.
>>416920
>Haha, it goes to show that humans try to breed with anything that moves.
OOGA BOOGA WHERE THE NEANDERTHAL WOMAN AT
I have some questions about Europe first homo sapiens
>how did they look like? Did they resemble black africans or already had caucasoid features? Maybe something in between?
Also are PIEs more closely related to pronto Semitics? Since they all share similar fenotypical features like prominent noses and more squared faces.
When did Altaic and Sino-Tibetan peoples split from these other branches?
Australoids, who are their closest relatives? East Africans, Madagascar peoples, south Indians?
This topic is fascinating
>>418427
yeah me too
>>416899
>confident manlet neanderthal
>skinny jealous sapiens
>>419936
>madagaskar peoples
They're half austronesian-half african.
>>419936
It's fascinating that the previous presidnet of Madagascar looks like he could as well have been Chinese.
"Indo-European" refers to any of the languages posited to descend from Proto-Indo-European. These are linguistic terms.
>>418473
Yes, but they were both the second (and smaller) wave of Slavs to arrive in their new areas. They were preceded by a larger first wave who were just Slavs without further differentiation. It took several more centuries for the first-wave Slavs to start thinking of themselves as Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, whatever — most modern members of these groups are largely descendants of the first wave, who historically saw themselves as just Slavs.
>>417638
What about haplogroup J2a? It's been found among all major populations (ancient Sarmatian, Scythian, Pand modern Persian, Kurd, Anatolian, Levantine, Italian, Caucasian etc...) Is this Indo-European as well?
>>416947
Spotted the hohol
>>423230
J2a is a y-dna haplogroup and has been found at high numbers in CHG (a recently disvoered group that was once a mystery genetic component in IE) which is half the autosomal ancestry of the IE(the other half being EHG, a group related to WHG), this a recent and major revelation and people are still coming up with theories of how to explain this as it was thought to be unrelated and J2 in Europe doesnt seem to match IE expansion
Some theories is that J2 males werent successful so there haplogroup disappeared over time in Europe but its unknown why they arent as common in Europe as R1b or R1a which are aslo IE related haplogroups groups which were more successful
J2 in the middle east(or Europe) inst associated with any specific ancient group yet because we know to little, any theory is a VAST assumption
>>416844
Indo-Europeans are any people who speak Indo-European languages
Proto-Indo-Europeans are the people from modern-day Russia and Ukraine who spoke the first Indo-European language
>>416876
Yes.
All of the world (except for Greenland, Iceland, and some Pacific Islands) was inhabited by the time PIE people began expanding outward.
The current line of thinking argues that the PIE-era cultures and aesthetics of Ireland, Spain, and Persia existed even before those areas became Indo-European speaking.
The material culture of those places doesn't change much after Indo-European languages arrived.
>>424397
The cultures changed greatly after IE contact, I would argue they are the single most influential group of people to have ever existed
