Now that the dust has settled, can we all agree that the Vietnam War was [spoiler]unjust[/spoiler]?
no you fucking commie
>>40978
yea
>>40978
>unjust
History is about "is"es not "oughts." Read Hume.
p.s.: The VWP utterly hegemonised justice in French Indochina and the DRVN and RVN with the exception of the revolution in the RVN until 1968 when the VWP destroyed the revolution's capacity for self-defence more out of incompetence (Giap was on the outer and came in too late to cancel the "general uprising" component) than malice.
Fucking yanks. Learn more about Vietnam itself.
Opposition to the Vietnam War was legitimate but unfortunately the anti-war movement was hijacked by and gave birth to the New Left, the most cancerous movement of the latter twentieth century.
>>40978
No, and people like you were reason we lost it
>>41211
>calling others commies
>doesn't know the John Birch Society was against the war
>>41449
Put your dolchstoßlegende to bed.
>>40978
Everything in the cold war period was pretty unjust. Vietnam was just another one of those skirmishes to piss of the Ruskies.
We just focus in on Vietnam because the media made it seem like we were losing when in reality we were military kicking their ass. Basically, Vietnam was just yesterday's Iraq/Iran/Middle East desu
Now that the dust has settled, can we all agree that the anti-war movement was [spoiler]basically made up of a bunch of hypocrites who criticized any American action but didn't say anything when the communists won and began killing everyone[/spoiler]
>>40978
I don't have that feeling. The Vietnam War was just a war. People fought in it and died. Nothing is unjust because morality isn't real. It's literally just feelings.
>>41677
What about the people who didnt want to go and die at the other side of the world for some dickwaving against the Russians?
>>41327
>hegemonised justice
You know this makes you sound like a prat right?
>>41843
Have you not seen the other posts by this guy? He's the most pretentious pseudo-intellectual poster I've ever seen.
uncle Ho talking about american balls
>>41843
If using Gramsci, based on some of the finest works of Italian bourgeois history to his time, makes me sound like a prat then I would rather sound like a prat than be imprecise in describing the VWP's methods in the RVN.
Why don't you tell us about the two lines in the VWP?
>>40978
>unjust
It was just silly and improperly fought. It was literally Korea 2.0 from a moral standpoint and no one bitches about that one.
>>40978
>be american
>get your aircraft carrier inside north naval territory
>get shot
>declare war
I don't see how people defend this.
>>40978
It was entirely just.
So was Senator Joseph McCarthy, General George S. Patton, MacArthur in Korea, Bay of Pigs, CIA actions in South America, and so on.
![1409238950096[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/fI8C1Ra.png "1409238950096[1].png")
>>41915
>>41900
>>41843
And there he goes, effortlessly proving us right.
>using Gramsci
This isn't an undergraduate seminar you know. There are no cute girls with short hair to be impressed. Your liberal professor won't be giving you any brownie points for repeating his views.
>>41677
I feel like I'd have been against the war, but in support of propping up South Vietnam.
(Even though it was a shitty dictatorship.)
>>41988
The Gulf of Tonkin Incident was completely fabricated.
>>41327
what are the VWP, the DRVN, and the RVN?
>>41999
Mate, you've got the wrong end of the stick for where I sit in the classroom.
>>42156
Vietnam Workers Party
Democratic Republic of Vietnam (North Vietnam)
Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam)
>>40978
It's just one of many places where shit went bad in the combination of decolonization and the Russian/American pissing contest that followed WWII. Ultimately the concept of just war is ultimately just something used to justify actions after the fact or to legitimize them as they are happening. People with the power to do so will always do whatever they want.
![1392127658452[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/q0Mcsos.gif "1392127658452[1].gif")
>>42217
Sure thing sempai!
Enlighten us more with some ontological dialectic
>>41988
It's a bit more complicated than that.
>South Vietnamese conduct commando raids against North Vietnamese
>standard MO is for South Vietnamese to ride in on little pontoon boats, infiltrate the North Vietnamese coast, and then all die
>US brings along electronic warfare ships to these little get togethers to see North Vietnamese radar capabilities when they turn on their radars looking for the South Vietnamese boats
>North Vietnamese torpedo boats end up attacking one such ship, the USS Maddox
Now the second one was just a jumpy sonar operator getting false positives.
>bitch about American imperialism
>...
>as the soviets are dumping billions into the North's war effort
Every commie "intellectual" ever.
The commies selling every bit of their expansion as some sort of self determinism thing was one of their biggest coups.
>>42325
>some ontological dialectic
Ontological doesn't mean what you think it means.
>>42372
A bit deeper than that. Despite all his problems as a primary source in English try the Australian journalist Burchett (1965) Vietnam: The inside story of a Guerrilla War, International Publishers. US advisors were present in regimental operations in 1963 which the PLAF*1 were winning, against US armour and helicopters.
*1 People's Liberation Armed Forces, the "Vietcong", the military wing of the NFL, the National Front for Liberation, a multi-party national liberation movement which was controlled through the VWP faction.
>>40978
>Eisenhower admin floats domino theory
>Cambodia goes full gommie as Saigon's falling
>Laos goes full gommie 8 months later
Nah, it was just lost.
![1434369883458[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/Slq4TTK.png "1434369883458[1].png")
>>42564
>I am a big boy now! On the internet!
>>42719
Well, the US elite in the Eisenhower era was more concerned with Thailand and Malaya and Indonesia and the Philippines.
Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia were a backwater, and the RVN only turned a profit through having the US dump vast amounts of treasure into it. Even then, most of it was offshored into Thai, Chinese family network and Catholic Comprador graft networks.
Read up about the US's attempts to introduce American pigs into the RVN.
