Was Soviet Occupation really that bad for the other Slavic countries?
>>405483
>Estonia
>Latvia
>slavic
Was French Occupation really that bad for the Maghrebi countries?
Depends on how bored the soldiers were
Was Japanese occupation really that bad for Korea?
>>405533
Nope.
A japanese poster on int/ once told me it actually greatly improved Korea
>>405560
>a Japanese poster once told me
Kenji, this is Suk Hwan, pls go.
>>405526
>desert
>harbor
wut
>>405585
are you retarded?
>>405483
Compare East and West Berlin. Look at Poland.
There's a reason that sane people outside of Moscow don't miss communism.
>>405533
>>405483
Really depended on who was controlling policy at the time. As one might expect, for anyone that wasn't part of the RSFSR, Stalin's regime was all manner of shitty. Beyond that, it had its ups and downs.
>>405483
Yes. Nobody should be subjected to communism, that's just horrible.
>Colonialism is bad except when we do it
Marxists, ladies and gentlemen.
>>405483
Estonia was barely richer than Finland when soviet occupation started. Which one was richer in 1990?
Same shit happened with Koreas. Norks were for like 20 years the richer part of the peninsula and then glorious Juche manifested itself in material realm.
>>405483
Was American occupation really that bad for Germany?
>>405560
it may have left technology and infrastructure that the Koreans used to rebuild
it was still brutal and oppressive and attempted to destroy the Korean identity
>>405603
I get the feeling this picture is leaving something out and lying about other stuff
>>405680
Korean identity didn't exist until the Donghak rebellion, though. I agree with you, but you sound like someone complaining about 'muh Palestine' when the Palestinians never had a state. The Japanese were acting within their rights when they tried to elevate the unconscious>>405679
gooks to Japhood.
>>405652
Ehh, Spanish colonization was arguably shit.
>>405483
No
>>405652
oh c'mon their were actual ancient civilizations and Empires in Mexico and Peru.
>>405652
Not really. Well they did build cathedrals, but that's just poor use of infrastructure.
>>405706
>they don't have a state by the narrow Westphalian definition of the term
>therefore they're not really a proper nation
People aren't this stupid in real life, are they? I always thought this was something Jews just pretended to believe in order to justify their destruction of Palestine.
>>405746
That's how international law works. Do you have e a better system? They should have established a state on their own before the Ottomans lost a war.
>>405483
Considering Latvia and Estonia had a higher standard of life, literacy rate and lofe expectancy before occupation, and a functioning market economy to boot -
Yes.
And those countries had schools, hospitals and universities. And factories. And a middle class - both enterpreneurs and farmers. Which the Soviets ruined/bombed/murdered/forced to flee. And then built crappy soviet boxes, which plague those countries today.
Unless you're a retarded Sovka spouting "we brought culture" nonsense.
>>405652
Damn took the bait...
Spanish colonization push back many advancements that native civilizations already achieved. Both the Aztecs and Incans had elaborate systems of irrigation, canals, and farming. The Spanish, being as Spanish as they were, thought that instead of farming with terraces in the Andes, like the Incans, let them fall apart for the shittier farming on the side of a mountain method. Being Spanish, obviously the best thing to do was take all of their culture, architecture, and diet to the New World because surely if it worked in Spain it'll work in the New World.
Building shitty colonial buildings in earthquake zones despite having superior indigenous buildings that could easily withstand this. Having the great idea of filling up much of the lake around the Aztec capital in order to build a Spanish town, despite being an important source of clean water and agriculture. In conclusion, Spanish fucked up a lot in order to feel at home.
>>405777
oh, I get it: you're Jewish
>>405794
No, I'm mostly b8ing you with the Israel/Palestine stuff, I'm surprised you bit.
But my claim about the Donghak rebellion is still one I've heard multiple times: there was no Korean identity prior to the Donghak rebellion. There was a Korean culture, but it wasn't the same as Japanese identity or German identity. Korean nationalism was a product of Japanese imperialism and the Korean War, more than anything. I'm equating identity and national identity, since we're specifically talking about Korean identity.
>>405693
Japan bankrupted it self developing Korea. So that they could fully integrate Korea as part of the empire and not just some colony/territory.
>>405679
Germany did that to themselves.
>>405679
not fair mate, this ain't our fault, krauts were fags to begin with. you can blame us for the turks, but the fag thing is solely german.
>>405679
Germans are so ugly dammit
That boypussy is not one of tap
>visit Russian Karelia 8 years ago
>housing there was basically entirely pre-war Finnish houses with soviet commie blocks and satellite dishes
Shit was disgusting yo.
>>405708
>>405792
It did stop the whole ritual sacrifice thing which was big over there.
So there is that.
>>405708
Pre-colonization was arguably shit too
>>407414
pre colombian civilizations were always collapsing from crop failures.
>>405853
>tfw mostly german heritage and want to trap
>tfw my entire face is ultra manly even though my body is tiny
fuck this gay earth.
>>407659
>tfw delicate features and soft skin and naturally wide hips
>have strong qt slav bf who will protect me
Feels good man
>>405792
sort of this... only the aztecs and the incans were at that level
the huge rest were nothing more than savages uninterested in advancing and only intersted in semi-primitive warfare
>>407682
Is good genes a zero sum game?
>>407747
When you're qt, yes
>>405483
For baltic countries it was. Under stalin hundreds of thousands of people were deported to death camps in siberia, up to third of each countries population, and replaced with ethnic russians to destroy national unity, there was a decade long anti-communist insurgency after ww2. During ww2 special destruction batallions were set to terrorize the population to keep them subjugated. And estonia is only now slowly regaining its place as a first world country, which it would have been decades ago if not for communism.
>invade a more developed country
>leave it economically and socially fucked beyond reason
When evaluating Soviet occupation, don't think about the European powers that brought some sort of civilization to the Americas. Think of the Mongols burning down Baghdad instead.
> occupation is okay if you build infra
>>405863
Finns burned/destroyed most if not all infra and housing in 1940 and 1944 so as not to allow it to fall to Soviet hands.
>>405483
yes, gdp per capita barely changed in countries behind the iron curtain from the end of ww2 to the end of the cold war, while at the same time greece and other countries which were left more or less equally backwards and undeveloped after ww2 were undergoing their "miracles"
>>408791
The only things of value the Baltic countries have are what the soviets built. If it wasn't for the "occupation" the Balts would be Mongolia level.
>>408990
Baltics were a haven of Baltic Germans who developed the region way more than whatever Soviets ever did. Stop trolling.
>>405483
'no'
>>408990
t. Albertov Barboskovich
>>409074
That's not really a Russian sounding name, you know.
>>407313
kek'd a little
>>409090
haha lol
TOP KEK, as they say
amirite
>>408990
Have you ever been in Mongolia? It's more developed that your Russia.
>>405483
What you have to take into account when discussing any sort of occupation and colonalisation is not only the physical consequences (shit being built, etc) but also the effects on said nations' culture. The communist occupation thwarted cultural development for half a century in every country it touched (including Russia, of course, though I guess bolshevik culture was less alien to Russians than to the rest). Western political and economical systems are failing in most post-communist countries because the people there are simply behind in terms of cultural development. They have not yet learned the social mechanisms and basic principles that are necessary to properly run a democratic (or any) state capable of growth. I'm from Hungary and I see the effects of the Soviet occupation in my countrymen's behaviour everyday. Also what's really ironic is that the vast majority of the older generations claims to hate the Soviets and communism, but after growing up in it, it's the only system they know and can enjoy living in. Old (and a shit load of middle-aged) people in Hungary generally vote and fanatically cheer for the quasi-return of the bolshevist regime and political culture - courtesy of Viktor Orbán - with the only difference being that it's wrapped in red-white-green and not plain red.
>>405617
Who's that guy?
>>408990
What valued things are you talking about? All those abandoned militarybases? The houses they had to build that would not be needed in the first place if they didn't overpopulate cities by massively moving russians into baltic cities? Do you thing there weren't any schools hospitals and libraries before?
>>408990
Yeah Im sure they wouldnt have built anything on their own given they had independence.
Just look at how fast Finland went from agrarian to one of the most developed nations in the world, thats how Baltics wouldve progress if it wasnt for communism.
For Poland it wasn't as much of an occupation, but up until 1970 people were fairly content with their lives. After all, commies had taken over the country, which capital looked like pic related, where in 1920s there was a governmental programme for building outhouses and actually managed to turn it into fairly functional state. Almost all of industry, infrastructure, housing was build by communist, and until the generation that remembered war was still the domintant one - they had support. Only when the young came, who compared the life to the West, that was when the dissent started. Even in 1968 workers protested when the Party told them to, not to mention the resurgence of support during Gierek's administration. Heavy downhill was from 1975 onwards.
>>409248
a finnish comedian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOu_On_6vMY
Look at development of European countries. Now look at the Iron Curtain. Does anything feel familiar?
>>409347
Modern infrastructure and idustry was built by the Soviets. Of course they schools and libraries before the Soviet Union they were built by the Russian Empire.
Yes
For example the Czech Republic was one of the most industrialised affluent sophisticated societies before occupation.
>>405483
How did it work out for the Soviets themselves?
>>405680
this
they built up Korea but they treated Koreans as a people as subhumans
>>409234
>Western political and economical systems are failing in most post-communist countries because the people there are simply behind in terms of cultural development.
As if not knowing the entire Epic of Manas by heart has a consequence towards the economy of Kyrgyzstan. Of course "cultural development" has exactly 0% to do with material development. The problem ex-Soviet nations have is the collapse of the Soviet Union left behind millions of skilled, educated workers with no infrastructure ready for Western backed oligarchies to introduce their "democracy". Disregarding your silly sarcasm (Viktor Orbán a Bolshevik, lmfao) older people in the ex-Soviets do tend to be nostalgic for the Soviet Union, and precisely because even if the Republics weren't perfect the alternative has proven worse.
>>405560
>>409418
To be fair when the majority of your country is completely destroyed by Germans, Anglos, and Russians anything afterwards is gonna look pretty nice in comparison.
>>410881
oh my fucking god that's grand
>>405622
There's a difference between colonization (extracting resources, exploiting labor, forcing your beliefs on people) and funding and helping socialist movements within countries that desperately need socialism.
The Soviets spread their ideas and funded their missions but they never forced communism anywhere, because you simply can't force that. Democratic control of the means of production is something people (especially peasants and workers) desperately want.
The Soviets voluntarily left Korea, Vietnam, China, Cuba, Chile, and other countries once their revolutions took off.
>>411184
>countries that desperately need socialism.
No country ever needed socialism.
>>411197
Russia under the czar had something like 40% peasantry and China under it's provisional government had something like 60% peasantry. When most people are dirt poor and they get shit for all their hard labor, it's time to start cutting heads and massively changing the economy so that it benefits everyone who works (and ensuring that everyone that can work has a job available).
>>405483
*Fixed
No need to thank me ;)
>>409418
no shit they rebuilt cities destroyed by the war, any government would, doesn't make it good
>where in 1920s there was a governmental programme for building outhouses
that's also thanks to russian occupation tbqh, interwar Poland was one of the fastest developing countries
>>411278
As a Hungarian I hereby
/thread
>>411225
Russia and China were mostly poor peasantry for the last 1500 years yet they didn't mind. Also socialism in the USSR was technically a revert to serfdom so not sure how that helped.
>>411405
>thanks to russian occupation.
Learn your facts m8. Russian partition was by far the most industrialized of all and it's hard to really find out what would happen if you cut out 123 years of rapid change. Just remember that Poland was underdeveloped as fuck well before 1795. Right before WW2, there were around 33% unemployed in Poland. Still around 50% of GDP came from agriculture and only 30% of all employed were industry workers. Country was effectively a military dictatorship, where you could get first brutally beaten and then sentenced to jail for calling Piłsudski "Cabotin".
By comparison, commies managed to perform an agrarian reform, eliminate minorities and developed industry so Poland became in top 5 coal and copper producers worldwide. Blocks were built, roads were paved, villages electrified and unemployment eliminated. In 1946 there was a referendum. Around 30% people voted as the communist party told them, in traditionally anti-communist region of Poland.
I'm not trying to whitewash them, but give the devil it's due.
>>405693
Yeah, the second one is after they shot like half of Korea to death.
>>405483
Nice try.
>>405483
Colonization or occupation that rapidly advances the technology of a backwards society often causes the society to go through serious instability and uncertainty until it catches up.
