How do you think the Mid East should've split up.
How will it be split up in the future?
>>404321
map reminds me of this
>>404321
that map is shit tb.h
>>404695
The map doesn't have anything to do with the thread and is not proposing political borders.
>>404711
I know, I can read filenames
its "cultural zones" are shit
>>404720
There's indeed some weird things and the small one in the corner makes indeed more sense. For example I don't understand why would he put the two iraqs together or what is this gigantic "caspia" region supposed to be.
>>404321
Should have been split up on ethno-religious lines. Sunni Arabs in one country:
Saudi Arabia (minus Jizan and the Shia bits of the Eastern Provinces)
Yemen (Mahrah, Hadramawat, Shabwa, Abyan, Lahij, Taiizz, Mahwit, Hajjah)
Iraq (Anbar, Salahuddin, Nineveh [West side of the Tigris only], Najaf and Muthana)
Syria (Deir az-Zur, Raqqa, plus whatever Sunni Arab bits you can cut out of Hims, Idlib, Aleppa, Hasaka provinces, and so on)
UAE
Kuwait
Qatar
Jordan
Palestine
The remaining Shia parts of Iraq form their own country, same with the Shia parts of Yemen+Jizan. Eastern Provinces+Bahrain maybe get their own government?
All of the Alawites and Druze and other assorted minorities in Syria just get absorbed by Lebanon.
Kurds cut out a country from Turkey (most of their South east), Iraq (Dohuk, Kirkuk, Arbil, Nineveh on the eastern side of the Tigris, Sulaimaniyah, a bit of Diyalah) and bits of Syria.
Armenia gets a sliver of Turkey back too, because why not at this point.
Eastern Thrace goes back to Greece so that we don't have to put up with Turkish bullshit to control the Bosporus. Fuck it, have the Greeks win their war against Turkey with better British support.
Iran adds Harat from Afghanistan since there are a decent amount of Persians there and the Iranians have their shit together, so they could govern it.
Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan eat up the northern part of Afghanistan, making it smaller, closer to homogenous and hopefully less of a pain to govern.
Oman stays the same since everything is alright there.
>>404321
Let God sort them out
>>405035
Nobody apart from the sunni arabs would want your gigantic sunni arab country. It would also be a constant threat for the small shia and other minority countries of your proposal, making the actual shia-sunni conflict worst.
Your proposed "sunni arab" state should be further divided, not necessarily according to the modern borders.
>>405109
Have the Hashemites absorb the Syrian and Iraqi Sunni Arab parts (and Palestine, since they already house half of them anyways), while Saudi Arabia gets all of the gulf monarchies minus the Shia parts then.
As it stands, Sunnis and Shias are constantly fighting each other anyways, I just wanted to end the insurgency bullshit and have it as formal governments carrying out this century-old blood feud in a more controlled fashion.
>>404720
They're historic zones, like the way Europe has places like Pomerania, Silesia, Burgundy, etc. They're not ethnic or linguistic zones. Most of it is pretty accurate.
Best Middle East
pic related
>>405159
No, that would still be awful. Let the gulf monarchies alone and separate Nejd and Hedjaz. That's for Arabia. Out of it, at least a division between Iraq and Syria should exist.
>>404321
>Iraq and East Syria to Iran
>West Syria to Lebanon
>Assyro-Kurdistan in South Anatolia and North Syria
>Split Saudi back into Hejaz and Nejd
>Jews get Jordan
>Glass the coast south from Tyre to the Sinai
tbqh Iran has done a pretty good job of keeping its shit stable despite how much everyone has tried to fuck their assholes
World Wars: Arab Edition
>>405162
no they aren't
the fuck's Caspia? Piedmont? "Pontica" is too big, how is Karaman different from the rest of Anatolia and why is it exactly called Karaman and not something else (I'm aware of the eponymous dynasty/beylik), why are some of the Kurdish populated areas called Zagros and why is it divided into 2 parts etc
it's pretty weird to say the least
>>405222
Why do these other GCMs need to exist in the first place?
Why split Saudi Arabia up, they're fairly stable.
Syria and Iraqi Sunnis wouldn't function well as independent states- they're too small and have essentially nothing going for them (not many large cities, no sea access, not enough oil, not much worth visiting), and no legitimate government to put in charge. Attaching them to Jordan at least gives them a legitimate sovereign who can hopefully stabilize them, and who is also an established ally of the US.
>>405352
>Saudi Arabia
>stable
kek
>>405400
They export the worst of their troubles to Sunni areas in Syria and Iraq right now. Can't imagine what would happen if they didn't have that luxury any more.
>>405449
Then again, if they stopped wasting money on terrorism, they could spend that money improving the lives of their people instead.
>>404321
It should have been a borderless shitshow where we let tribes just kill eachother off over resources
Fuck the states over their half of them are made up with an old name to justify their existance. Hell id rather have them live like mud hit nigs or worse yet gypseys
>>405352
>Why split Saudi Arabia up, they're fairly stable.
1) They're not.
2) Saudi Arabia suffers from ethnic tensions to the point that it affects business.
3) Hedjaz and Nejd have been historically separated entities.
4) Separating the Wahhabi core from the holy sites of Islam can only prove benefical for the rest of the religion and it's relationship with the rest of the world.
>>405193
Under full israeli rule that entire region would become prosperous.
>>405035
Why not just combine all of Iran, Azerbaijan, Afgahnistan, Eastern Iraq, and Tajikistan since those are Iranian/Iranic heartlands?
middle east is tough. There's still a strong tribal presence. They may define themselves as Arabs, Kurds, Farsis...christian, muslims and jews. But besides an ethnic affiliation there are many tribal affiliations that form subgroups...and they are always warring with each other.
>>405609
I wanted to keep them ethnically homogenous. Eastern Iraq is all Arab, they don't really fit.
I gave the Persian areas of western Afghanistan over to Iran already but I didn't want to overburden them. Just leave the Pashtuns to their own devices and ignore them. Plus, I don't know shit about Tajikistan and little about Azerbaijan.
>>405490
Do you know where I could read up on KSA then, if it's really that bad?
And on the Wahhabis, they're smack dab in the middle of KSA aren't they? How do you give them their own state and have it be functional? I feel like they just need to be marginalized.
>>405656
>Do you know where I could read up on KSA then, if it's really that bad?
Newspapers, lots of them. Of different ideology and, if possible, different countries. I'm sorry but for the specific case of KSA my knowledge is modern politics rather than /his/ related.
I've been monitoring this thread >>404272 too, but I suppose you're the OP.
>How do you give them their own state and have it be functional?
You don't. Let them stay in their unfunctional state in the middle of the desert, or let them adapt to the ways of the other regions as low rank immigration and not rulers.
>>405609
>>405656
It would make all the sense in the world to annex Azerbaijan to Iran if it wasn't because the soviet experience of the former made it very difficult. With things are they are now, Azerbaijan is too secularized to fit inside Iran without important friction. Also Turkey would oppose it as it clashes against their cosmovision of turkish unity.
I also think that pasthuns should be left to be their own polity, but persians in Afghanistan do not get along well with iranian persians. The sunni/shia clash complicates things again.
1. allow turks to genocide kurds
kurdish problem solved
2. allow shias/sunnis to genocide other sect until one is completely cleansed
sectarian problem in iraq/syria solved
3. stop backing gulf states and instigate war between them and iran. wait until one side has destroyed the other
iran-gulf problem solved
>>405979
>Newspapers, lots of them. Of different ideology and, if possible, different countries. I'm sorry but for the specific case of KSA my knowledge is modern politics rather than /his/ related.
Damn, I was hoping for more. It's hard to get any decent perspective on the internal workings of Islamic countries in the US, and probably all of the West. So few people seem to know ANYTHING about them, including our politicians.
If you could just elaborate a tad on Hedjaz and Nejd I'd appreciate it, I'm ignorant on KSA beyond that they used Wahhabi tribesmen as a significant part of their conquests, and thus rely on being ultra-religious to be legitimize their rule.
>>406208
4. Let the Syriacs reclaim Assyria.
>>406313
Here have my two cents, based on general knowledge of world history:
Hedjaz was part of the Ottoman Empire and the Mamluk Empire before it. The Ayyubids of Saladin also controlled it, as did the Fatimids during a period of time. It was a region conected with the world, placed in important trade routes, with an history and tradition of urbanism.
Nejd was more isolated and mostly uncontroled by foreign powers, even the ones that claimed rule over it (included the Ottomans themselves) outside of military interventions more destined to prevent the rise of dangerous policies than to establish an actual control.
The Saudi state has it's roots in Nejd. The first one arose from the alliance between the founde of Wahhabism and the founder of the Saud Dynasty. From the center of Arabia they conquered most of it, including the modern KSA borders plus Qatar and the Emirates. But the conquest of the Holy Cities was too much and the Ottomans sent Muhammad Ali of Egypt to crush the Saudis, which he did. But the control of the area didn't last for long.
The current KSA is the third Saudi State, because there's a second but was defeated by another dynasty of the region that was pro-Ottoman. With the fall of the Ottomans during the WW1, the Saudis were able to establish themselves as rulers of Nejd first and then conquer Hedjaz, that had declared it's independence from the Ottoman Empire some years before. The rulers of Hedjaz were Hashemites like the ones that rule Transjoardan, by the way.
>>404321
The Middle East should have never been subjected to arbitrary border formations.
Here's an imaginary map I made based on ethnicity, linguistics, and religion.
>maghrebi state
>levantine state (maybe called syria)
>sunni arab state (maybe called mesopotamia)
>shia arab state (maybe called iraq)
>nejdi state
>ibadi state
>egypt
>black arab state
>north & south yemeni states
>>405598
>prosperous
Before or after the people who live in the region are removed?
>>407203
>Saudia Arabia still a thing
You had one job
WW1 is still the worst thing to have ever happened.
>>407203
>those borders
I love you
>>407254
In this imaginary world, Saudi Arabia would be powerless since almost all of the oil belongs to the Shia Arab state
>>407203
I would probably give the eastern persians a separated state and give them azerbaijan again. I'm still to hear about a single modern azerbaijani irani that wants to separate, let alone about a majority. Azeris are well integrated in Iran and some of them are even pretty powerful and influential. The only ones that would have a problem would be the ones influenced by russian and soviet values (aka modern independent azerbaijan), those could be made independent still.
I'm adamant of giving kurds and balochis, peoples without tradition of managing actual states, so much land.
Also no point on having this gross-maghrib when states like Morocco have a long history of being independent well stablished countries.
>>407329
Oh, also at the point you're going Pakistan should be separated between Punjab and Sindh. Them both being muslim indians proved to be not enough to make them get along.
>>405193
ITT: people who don't get Middle Eastern society at all. There is no set of borders that would create total regional peace.
ITT: Give Kurds all the Assyrian land.
The Treaty of Sèvres gave us a good way to divide Anatolia.
Like this.
>>407203
>Balkanizing Iran
Plebeian
>>408900
ayy
>>409023
How
>>409033
greeks being incompetent as usual
>>409033
Greeks being shit, Allies exhausted after WW1 and refusing to really commit to war.
Also, huge genocide by the Turks.
>tfw no qt Megali Idea Greece
>tfw no Republic of Pontus
>tfw no Wilsonian Armenia
>>409058
Shit map but the brown splooge is good representation of Kurds.
>>409119
every time
>>407203
Is that a landlocked Yemeni state, though?
Also, no Saudis pls.
Rest looks pretty good. Although landlocked Iraq is a bit strange.
>>406208
>not backing the winner
For what purpose?
>>404321
here you go
>>409058
idk it worked out pretty well for the Turks
>>404321
>No Armenia
Undercover Turk?
It's too late to save the middle east. Places like Kuwait have spilled blood to secure their riches. Countries like Iraq are permanent shitholes and everybody except the oil workers should leave.
It is the saddest casualty of the cold war. N.A.T.O. set the clay lines in stone too soon.
I always liked the King-Crane comission, they basically interviewed people that lived there about what they wanted and then made this map.
Also,
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/the-middle-east-that-might-have-been/385410/
>>410346
I don't think the Saudis and the 'moderate rebels' would accept that
>>409016
>no independent Ireland
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
SAXONS GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
people itt seem to forget that the people living in those areas were promised the Great Arabia and would be pleased to live in a baaz state with all the ethnicities inside it rather than giving each ethnicity a country
