To this day we can see that the Sunni/Shia debacle is heavily politicized, where Shia is concentrated in Iran and their historical sphere of influence.
Under what political circumstances was the schism created and what does it have to do with Persians? Is it a coincidence or were there ethnic undertones?
>>395673
>Under what political circumstances was the schism created and what does it have to do with Persians? Is it a coincidence or were there ethnic undertones?
Yes. 100%. Persian Islam is completely different from Arabic Islam and that's both because of ethnic and cultural differences, and the fact that Persians had a great empire before the Arabs came along and subjugated them so the Persians resented the Arabs greatly which is why they devised their own philosophy on Islam.
>>395673
The Sunni/Shi'a split is nearly as old as Islam itself. Sunni's favoured Abu Bakr as the first Caliph and believed any one of the Quraysh tribe could be Caliph, Shi'a favoured Ali and believed that only members of the prophet's family could be Caliph. History deepened the divide and many theological differences developed over time.
The Persians had practically nothing to do with the split. The reason Iran is mainly Shi'a is because an Azeri Twelver Shi'a dynasty called the Safavids took power in the 16th century and set to converting the populace.
tfw my family is twelver shia
A little bit weird with all the hidden imam shit.
>>395732
Just thank the lord you're not Sunni. They're the protestants of Islam
>>395673
I'm pretty sure oman isn't sunni or shia they're this ibadi which is apparently a really old version of islam. From what I understand about Oman's government and Ibadi it sounds a lot more tolerant and progressive than sunnis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibadi
>>395858
The only groups who believe anyone can be Caliph are the Kharijites who are long extinct and were very brutal, and the Ibadis who are quite irrelevant and insular.
The conversion to Twelver Islam was enforced by the Safawids so I doubt many people chose it. (though there were already many Shi'a in Iran)
>>395686
>persian islam
>arabic islam
?????
>>396018
Every different culture changes the beliefs of teir chosen religion in order to fit the said religion easier into their life.
For example turkish islam is known to be more liberal wherein saudi arabians are more hardcore. This is not only with islam btw this applies to any large religion which encompasses several cultures.
The split is mainly political. Later on, in an effort to preserve Persian culture, Shia'ism was more developed to separate them from the more loose Arabian muslims. This structuring eventually spurred the Abassid empire to also structure Islam which is why collected works of hadiths started appearing more often.
>>396018
>Italian Christianity
>English Christianity
>Greek Christianity
???
>>396077
Basically this. Shi'a Islam started out as basically a continuation of the tribal tendencies of the Arabs but it was quickly co opted by the Persian ruling class because they saw in it an opportunity to preserve their identity/place in society while adhering to the social demands of the Caliphate.
>>396226
>that kurdistan
disgusting
>>396226
>Greater Jordan
I can live with this
>>395673
>To this day we can see that the Sunni/Shia debacle is heavily politicized, where Shia is concentrated in Iran and their historical sphere of influence.
Iran was a historically Sunni country. It was converted to Shi'ism by force in the 17th century.
>Under what political circumstances was the schism created and what does it have to do with Persians?
Originally it had absolutely nothing to do with the Persians. It was a dispute over which Arab should succeed Muhammad as caliph.
>Is it a coincidence or were there ethnic undertones?
It only gained ethnic undertones after the aforementioned forced conversion of Iran.
Well, Shi'ism was originally a political ideology in which there were no theological differences from the other Muslims.
"Shia" means "Party" in Arabic, and the Shi'ites called themselves "The Partisans of Ali" whereby they stood with Ali against any usurpers to his legitimate power.
As >>396384 said, only after the Safawid dynasty forcibly converted the Persians to Twelver Shi'ism did it take on an ethnic tone. It's also worthy to note that Twelver Shi'ism is the youngest of the major Shi'a branches, with the others (Zaidiyyah and Ismailiyah) not being influenced by as many opinions.
In fact, Ali would definitely not recognise Twelvers or Seveners, as they've become deviated in their theology. Infallibility of humans is incompatible with Islam, for example.
Zaidiyyah (Fivers) do not have this error, they are much closer to the truth than many sects.
>>396226
>Kurdistan
>keeping a Saudi state
>keeping Turkey
>no Palestine
>no Greater Syria
The solution is a single Arab confederation.
>>396226
Shit map
t. enlightened western expert
>>396561
>that Slovenia
Shia Islam is just a vessel for the continuation of pagan traditions in an Islamic framework, so it's no wonder it got popular in Persia, where Islam is heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism.
See these guys, for example
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qizilbash
>Qizilbash or Kizilbash (sometimes also Qezelbash or Qazilbash) is the label given to a wide variety of Shi'i militant groups that flourished in Azerbaijan,[1][2] Anatolia and Kurdistan from the late 13th century onwards, some of which contributed to the foundation of the Safavid dynasty of Iran.[3][4]
>Connections between the Qizilbash and other religious groups and secret societies, such as the Mazdaki movement in the Sasanian Empire, or its more radical offspring, the Persian Khurramites, have been suggested. Like the Qizilbash, the latter were an early Shi'i ghulat group[3] and dressed in red, for which they were termed "the red-haired ones" (Arabic: محمرة muḥammirah) by medieval sources.[8] In this context, Turkish scholar Abdülbaki Gölpinarli sees the Qizilbash as "spiritual descendants of the Khurramites".[3]
>>396598
>The solution is a single Arab confederation.
>>396598
I think you meant "new Byzantium."
>>396598
Gee, something like...an Islamich Caliphate?
>>396226
After all the land Iran and turkey have lost in the past few centuries I don't think either one or even any country in the M.E what's boarder changes and country building anymore
>>395673
soo much cancer , i hope the chemo came soon
>>395751
People mistakenly try and make an analogous comparison between Sunni and Shia.
It is wrong and not appropriate at all - both theologically or historically in comparison.
>>395770
It's tolerant, but not really progressive. Ibadis are actually very conservative when it comes to their own religion and the laws derived from it, but they do not expect or demand members of other faiths to follow those rules.
Since when the fuck is India muslime?
>>395751
>sunni
>protestant islam
m8, they're the mainstream since beginning. Salafism is the protestant of islam.
>>399433
Wahhabis are the Protestants of Islam
>>396018
He's talking out of his ass. The entire concept that Shia Islam offends Wahabai/Suuni purists is that Persians bring in Pre-Islamic Iranian culture, folklore, and methodology into Muslim Orthodoxy.
Its not "Persian" Islam via being Shiite, its "Iranain" Islam. And the whole celebrating and focusing on Ali is a very Iranian cultural thing.
>>396226
Iran is never going to give any land to the Kurds for a free or autonomous Kurdistan and Iran is the most sympathetic country in the Near East to the Kurds out of virtue of Iranian kinship. Also anschluss between Iran, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, and Azerbaijan when?
>>396226
Afghanistan, Balochistan, Kurdistan, Shia Iraq, Kuwait, and Azerbijan should all be part of Persia. Greater Lebanon, Israel, Jordan as it exists today, and the part of Syria around Damascus should be the Levantine Republic. Eastern Syria and Sunni Iraq can be left to the IS, let them have their shit hole and if they think about expanding again just bomb them some more. Turkey, Greece, Cyprus, Georgia, and Armenia should be Basileiea ton Rhomaion. I literally do not give a fuck what happens to the Arabian peninsula. We should build a shit ton of solar panels in the American southwest and switch everything to electric as fast as possible so that dump can collapse back into its natural pre 20th c. state.
Shia hadn't been the main religion of Persia/Iran until the 1500s.
For hundreds of years, Egypt was the center of Shiism under the Fatimids and the Abbasids. However, witht eh advent of the Turkish and Mongolian invaders- the Mamluks and the Ilkhanate and Tamerlane's Empire left Shiism without a real central state.
It was in Tamerlane's empire that kid called Ismail was born and declared himself a descendant of Talib and led a revolt establishing a Shia state.
Believe it or not, Iran with the Safavids was not exactly the most zealous state- the state religion changed between Shiism and Sunnism several times in its history. But the rise of Imperial states made the Safavids more strictly control its people and put it all on Shiism to turn Persia into a more absolutist state.
>>399484
Wahhabi's are salafi's.
>>399498
This is bullshit, Shiism precedes the Persian mass converts. Celebrating Ali isn't Iranian, Iranians adopted celebrating Ali. What is Alevitism, what is aliwitism. Two different currents of shiism that aren't persian at all, and focus on Ali even more.
>>396226
>bitches don't know about my third temple
>>399545
>We should build a shit ton of solar panels in the American southwest and switch everything to electric as fast as possible so that dump can collapse back into its natural pre 20th c. state.
Soon. 2030 if we follow exponential trends, which make sense with such a disruptive technology like solar.
>>400761
Solar energy is garbage. Not only is it inefficient, it releases toxic fumes. All we need to do now is sit and wait for the Krauts or someone to pull off nuclear fusion and we're golden.
>>400801
>Not only is it inefficient
Grabbing ~20% of light energy from a near unlimited source is not inefficient.
>it releases toxic fumes
Oh, your just an idiot. Please give me some of these 'toxic fumes'.
