>He thinks a finite crime is worth infinite punishment.
>he thinks hell is a place and not a metaphor for the soul's alienation from all that is good and holy
>>389450
>He believes there is an objective thing that can be considered "good and holy".
>>389474
>and then he said evil's just a word!
>God wants us in heaven
>Puts us on earth
Great logic, christfags
>>389435
>he thinks he understands Christian theology
>>389497
>mooooooooooooooom why dont you just give me the ice cream first and then ill mow the lawn
>>389483
>My definition of evil is anything I don't like!
>>389512
>Why mom? Why did you throw me into the furnace for not mowing the law?
>>389515
>morality heh
>a lion does not concern himself with the opinions of sheep
>>389512
Why did mom create the lawn in the first place?
>>389522
>he thinks hell is reserved for petty thieves or whatever instead of those souls that are so mired in depravity and ignorance they tell the Good to go fuck itself
>>389526
Thanks for agreeing with me
>>389531
to be an objective arena for the development and demonstration of virtue
>>389512
Your mom may want the lawn mowed, but all God wants is you. A reward for the human (ice cream) is irrelevant because we aren't talking about what humans want, we're talking about what God wants
>>389497
>Heaven
>not merely a spiritual state caused by being close to God (i.e. following His laws)
>>389535
Define depravity and ignorance
>>389544
>>389544
>Muh set of morals
Why not just believe in the morals and ignore the book entirely?
Unless it muh community
>>389546
ignorance of one's true nature as being part and parcel of the divine - as well as the rest of reality - which prevents him from realizing that when he hurting others out of anger, lust, greed etc. he is also, essentially, hurting himself
depravity: go to /d/
>>389585
>go to /d/
Do already
And how does ignorance in "being part and parcel of the divine" Prevent me from not being a dick?
What about nice atheists or perverts?
do they go to hell because of what they believe or do on their own?
what even is being part and parcel of the divine?
>>389611
no truly divine being would give a shit what you really believe, or even if you formulate the good how i formulated it just now.
it only cares if you act selflessly for the good of others. such a god would not begrudge a pervert his inclinations, as long as he knew they were wrong.
there are tons of near-death experiences where the person is asked "what did you do for others?" or moments where the light beings rejoice over a completely inconsequential moment in the person's life they had forgotten about, such as the time they decided to be nice to the bullied kid or whatever.
it means realizing your essential nature is inextricably tied up with the universe. this universe, this reality, is you, and you by the very virtue of the fact you exist as a being inside it, are it as well. just a very small expression of it.
>>389634
>no truly divine being would give a shit what you really believe, or even if you formulate the good how i formulated it just now.
>it only cares if you act selflessly for the good of others.
Now THAT I can agree on
Except
>such a god would not begrudge a pervert his inclinations, as long as he knew they were wrong.
Unless you mean rape, stalking and pedophilia, which can harm others, and what is wrong with being perverse?
>>389661
being lewd and perverse is an over-excitation of lust.
but there's a difference between having perverted thoughts and BEING perverse. the first is just a mechanical cascade of nerve impulses that have been sensitized to be that way, ie if you're a footfag seeing stiletto heels or whatever in a un-pornographic setting might set you off even if sex is the farthest thing from your mind. but if you keep thinking about it, and thinking about it, and eventually indulged it by doing something creepy, ya dun goofed. but it's not like that's any way comparable to rape or worse stuff
>>389567
Because the basis of the morals is in the book. The basis of all Christianity is the understanding of what is owed to god, first and foremost.
When people say they want you to just keep "the morals" the mean only the moral obligations we hold towards other people. Not the basis of those obligations, or the moral obligations we owe God.
>>389611
Here's the problem: The moral standard of 'not being a dick' is really easy to achieve within the span of your lifetime.
This is /his/ though, and you'll find loads of people who through the circumstances of their time, fail that in painfully obvious ways to us.
To give a rough idea of it, about 90% of people, given the circumstances, would participate in the holocaust.
The thing that keeps us from being huge, awful dicks most of the time isn't virtue, it's circumstances.
And secondly, and just as importantly, you're neglecting your moral obligation to yourself. And I say this as a fellow /d/eviant: that shit is not the best use of yourself. It will not make you happy in the deep meaningful sense. It is not what our minds or organs are made for. It does us no good.
>>389774
What obligation?
I'm not saying that we should just stop trying and just fuck each other in one big hedonistic orgy, but literally anything you do is for your own good. Think about it, you only really do things now so that you can one day reap the rewards of doing so. While masturbation does make you feel good, it does so in a very small amount of time that can even be not enjoyable at times, while doing something like, say save a life can give you a lasting sense of joy for much longer. Like you said, it is also circumstantial. Humans have the magical ability to exaggerate things that pleases us while ignoring things that do not. If you were in the position of assassin, you wouldn't think about the families you ruined on your yacht with your beautiful and loyal wife.
Even the most altruistic actions occur out of a sense of selfish pride in oneself for doing so, and usually it not only that if you are helping a local community.
Unless there exists the most miserable atheists who works his ass off for others and never gets anything from anyone and never expects it either, while also not getting any joy out of help other either, there can never be such a thing as true altruism
>>389903
>what is a mother's love for her child
There have been many times in my life I've done something for an animal or person for the sole purpose of reducing their suffering.
>>389917
and you feel good about that don't you?
that feeling is what I'm talking about.
that pride of helping another will last longer than even the most powerful orgasm, and you will long to feel it again even more so.
>>389935
You have a really cynical view of the world. And I only felt good insofar as I mitigated suffering
>>390147
>insofar
eh?
>You have a really cynical view of the world.
How is that cynical?
Its realist. the reason you did that was to feel good. If you felt horrible afterward (Emotionally, physically doesn't necessarily matter) and regretted it forever, you wouldn't do it, would you? Even if you saved a life, after every time you did so, it came back and made you worse off, you mean to tell me that you keep doing it, even after you stop feel pride from doing it, and instead dread?
>>389551
if you are evil you aren't going to be in heaven
>>390174
Uh, yeah? Because my personal discomfort is secondary to the life of someone I want to save? But keep telling me more about myself, freud
>>390199
No, you see, you still assume that you'd feel good about it afterwards.
Stop that.
If you didn't get anything, even the narcissistic "you owe me your LIFE" feeling, how would you act?
Tell me, if a guy had no emotion and saw no way in which saving someones life, would he do it?
If he would, why?
>>389435
>He thinks he gets to make the rules
>>390221
>and saw no way of benefiting from saving someones life
Fixed
Sorry.
>>390221
Are you for real? You need to go outside man, be around people some more. I think edgy 4Chan shitposting has got you thinking we're all coldly logical final fantasy villains or something
Read mother Teresa's diary. She starts to question gods existence and wonders if she even is making a difference after all. You can sense her physical, mental, and spiritual exhaustion through the text but it didn't stop or slow her down at all
>>390252
because she still felt pride in doing so
Look man, I'm not some suicidal cynical bastard that does nothing all day, I enjoy myself and have fun. Just because I see the reality of the situation doesn't mean I cant enjoy it. and just because it makes you sad doesn't make it any less right.
Honestly, its kind of because there isn't really a point to anything that I feel good about the world. Everything just kind of is, and because of that I get to make my own purpose.
>>390242
>I have to stand for some douchbags policies because he said so.
>>390284
>I think I can beat God
>>390284
Who are you to say what other people are or aren't feeling?
>>390306
He "gets to make his own purpose" remember?
Anon is master of his own little brain sized universe and in his universe he knows exactly how Mother Teresa felt. Just like he knows that he has never been wrong and God is a just an imaginary sky-daddy :^)
>>390198
Of course there's no evil in heaven
>>390302
>I can't judge things I dislike
Fuck off
>>390306
Maybe because that is how humans work.
If Mother Teresa's faith wavered, its because she felt what she was doing was for naught, Am I correct?
If so, then that is because she felt no gain from it, nor from anyone around her. She felt as though nothing she did made a difference and all thing hard work she did, didn't matter. Am I correct?
If I'm not, sorry, I guess I look into it, but even if I am wrong, you have yet to answer my question: Would a man with no emotions and nothing to gain save someones life if it were a determent to him?
>>390320
lel
what does this have to do with anything?
>he thinks hell is punishment
>hed rathet be gods lapdog for eternity than keep his free will for eternity.
>>390333
Judge however you want, just don't expect the universe to respect your personal opinions.
Rage against the machine all you want but despite all your rage you're still just a rat in a cage.
>>390333
You're pretty much asking me if a genetic freak born with no emotions would bother saving someone's life. Probably not, but does that disprove true altruism? Does the fact something makes you feel good somehow invalidate it? What does it mean if what makes me feel good is precisely the fact that, say, I prevented the further suffering of an innocent animal or child? Not my pride, not the fact that I saved someone's life.
Your argument is that no one has ever done something selflessly, which is fucking ridiculous. Was the Buddha a narcissist? Was St. Francis just hopped on his status as a healer and a saint? Was it all just a show? Come on.
>>390338
>le you can't tell me what to do moooooooom maymay
LHP fags are nauseatingly tryhard
>>390355
OK?
What repercussions do I have?
Some empty threats for all I currently know?
Why are you even here?
>>390361
>Does the fact something makes you feel good somehow invalidate it?
Never said that, just said that people do it to feel good, and that they would probably not do it otherwise.
I love altruism, I want to help everyone I can. I'm aware that this is because It makes me and everyone else feel good. This doesn't invalidate it and in fact is the only reason it exists in the first place barring completely unreasonable reasons.
You may do something selflessly, but you HAVE to admit its for a selfish reason
Buddha was selfless for the selfish reason of enlightenment
St. Francis was selfless for the selfish reason of salvation
But the act they did are still good because the benefited the people whom they helped.
There is no such thing as "True Altruism" but that doesn't mean anything bad, just that we like a reward from doing something good.
Humans are a virus, but we are damned determend to be the nicest and most successful virus ever known
>>390402
Why you're so sure the threat of damnation is "empty" is a mystery, especially since God has a perfect track record of making good on His promises.
I'm here because God sent me.
>>390429
>track record of making good on His promises.
Aside from the obvious source what track record aside from things to generalized to matter?
>I'm here because God sent me.
Be sure not to get buggered like the last two who came here
or nailed to a cross
And make sure to keep your head on your shoulders
>>390402
>Buddha was selfless for the selfish reason of enlightenment
Nope, he was selfless after attaining enlightenment. He made the decision to remain the world instead of passing into parinirvana. Read about the religious figures you're slandering. You think they haven't considered this stuff? Time and time again, they'll say the greatest action is when one gives without there being an 'I' to give or another 'self' to receive. When there's no subject and object, no duality or distinction, only then can true generosity occur.
In a way it supports what you're saying, but it's not nearly as fatalistic as you are about it
>>390442
Well the Jews are still around for one, and Lord knows only divine intervention can explain why they haven't been exterminated yet.
Also Jesus fulfilled the messianic promise.
If I got nailed to a cross, it would be an honor.
>>389435
>he thinks that not being rewarded is the same as being punished
>>390452
>Nope, he was selfless after attaining enlightenment.
Yeah I realized that mistake after posting, and was hoping you wouldn't pounce on it too hard, but it seems I was wrong there.
If Buddha wanted to be enlightened, he could have just kept it to himself.
No one would have cared, and he would have been free. Here's the thing though, he still had something to gain from what was left of his mortal life. From helping others he felt better and was able to spread the word, therefore helping more people than he could have possibly done alone. This probably made him very happy.
If you say that he already gained infinite happiness or whatever from being enlightened, you should know can have different levels of happiness. You can be at peace with the world, but still enjoy it if someone offered you a piece of candy
>>390468
Ok, that can be said for the Armenians, the Kurds, the Sikhs, the native Americans, and literally any other minority group with heavy hostilities towards them.
>If I got nailed to a cross, it would be an honor.
I bet you praise Brian's name every day, eh?
>>390503
Of course the Buddha would feel joy, happiness, and exaltation at helping others, but it would not be a selfish joy. His ego was totally purged. There would be no self for him to be selfish for. That's that.
>>390526
>but it would not be a selfish joy
I trying to say joy itself is inherently selfish
It must be tough being religious, having to perform mental gymnastics while continuously moving the goalposts on every principle they have. always dodging the reality that their beliefs are as nonsensical and irrelevant as a children's fairy tale. Must be exhausting.
>>390552
>>390470
what do you think hell is?
>>390503
None of those groups you named are as old nor as universally maligned as the Hebrews.
>>390537
I don't think you understand what ego death is. Or emotion. Just because you are experiencing an emotion does not mean it is "selfish"
>>390569
Have you not been reading my posts?
Joy is both a selfish emotion and altruistic one because without it we wouldn't do anything that didn't strictly help our own survival, but its the only reason we do it in the first place.
>>390568
Source?
I'd argue Armenians were pretty hated wherever they were, and have existed for about as long.
>>390587
The joy intrinsic to an ego-less state is just not the same as, say, feeling joy over the fact you scored some booze and good weed for the party later. It just doesn't compare. Mystics would say that state of exaltation is actually our default state, before our dualistic ego programming kicks in and we're mired in the world.
>>390599
Again, Read my fucking posts.
If the only reason someone does something good is because it made them feel good, its still fucking selfish because they wouldn't have done it otherwise.
How do you still not get what I'm saying?
>>390618
because you're still trying to bring divine ecstasy down to some anime-tier pavlovian response. hurr, dis feel good, ima keep doing it hurr.
and no, the joy was not the "only" reason these individuals did what they did, if that was even a motivating factor at all. to argue otherwise is ridiculous. you're trying to project all these schemes and motivations on people who were only motivated by reducing human suffering
>>390596
Yeah we all know about those dang Armenian philosophers and academics who have been so influential! And don't even get me started about how the Armenians control the media and constantly push pro-Armenian propaganda! When I was in middle-school we had to go to the Armenian museum and listened to an old Armenian women tell us about the horrors she experienced just for being Armenian! I mean just think about how influential the ADL (Armenian Defamation League) is!
>>390639
>>>/pol/
>>390635
You miss the point yet again
READ
MY
POSTS
I said that they are not comparable, In fact, I outright denied that here >>389903 and described why.
The joy of helping the tribe is long lasting and can feed itself if the others feel gratitude, but the fact that this is the reason to do it in the first place, the fact that doing something good mean you will feel good in return is why anyone does it. they may not consciously think about it, but thats how things works.
Motivation is the belief that there will be a reward to reap, even if you actually can't because your dead, it will help the tribe over all, which will be a net gain.
Thats another magical thing about humans is that they will sacrifice themselves for the masses to prosper. this is still selfish because you feel pride from helping your tribe even if you die, because thats how human brains work.
>>390669
And once again, you think feeling good is the only or prime motivation. Which it isn't. Why do you deny this fact?
>>390684
What is it then, motivation?
Motivation is the expectation of later joy.
>>390689
... the motivation to reduce suffering, heal people, whatever. every being strives after its own good. for some, that's the selfish pride they feel in giving the homeless man a dollar. for others, it's union with the divine. is seeking the good always selfish? should we seek the bad instead? if your point is that people always seek the good, fine, we're in agreement. doesn't mean it's a bad thing. if you're argument is that people SELFISHLY always seek the good, then nah
>>390706
>it's union with the divine.
eh?
>is seeking the good always selfish?
This is why I tell you to read my posts
I never said that doing something good is bad, just that our intentions is always rooted in emotions. We should strive to make our world a better place so that everyone can be in a good place. Being good is inherently selfish, but that is ok, so long as our intentions bring others joy as well.
>>390727
if you exist, you have a self that is impossible to extricate yourself from, either in thought or behavior. the only way to transcend the self is through spiritual purification. is this "selfish"? Maybe, but it is selfish for exactly the right reasons: the motivation is to never have to feel ego-centered motivation again
>>390596
you're wrong
>>390355
>you're still just a rat in a cage
>he's proud of being a rat in a cage
>he's proud of being the keked slave to god
L
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