I think that the problem of evil is, in itself, a perfectly good reason not to worship a monotheistic god.
Any counter-arguments?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo [Embed]
The only tenable theodicies:
1. Evil as the absence of good
2. Gnostic cosmogony
3. Plotinus' metaphysics (only airtight theodicy I've ever encountered)
>>383584
>"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. --- Isaiah 45:7
The problem of theodicy really isn't a problem at all, because God freely admits that he is the one who creates evil.
>>383620
>god creates evil
>sends people to hell anyway
It still doesn't make sense
>>383635
Your problem is that you are looking for coherency in religion, which you're not going to find.
>>383620
The question was why worship a monothesistic god given the problem of evil, not does it exist, if he is a cunt then why bother to worship it?
>>383685
The question of why doesn't appear in the mind of someone who believes that a supernatural entity that owns them exists.
You actually have to imagine believing that there is a being that can condemn you for eternity to a pit of fire where you will be tormented for ever, if you do not submit to it's authority.
When you actually grasp that fact, that these people actually believe that this being is real, then you will understand that it's not a matter of "why bother worshipping" it's a matter of "I need to fear God because he will judge the sinner".
>>383696
Sure, but if it isn't benevolent then why would it even bother heping its worshippers.
If it it just an evil contrary, cunt it could do anything.
>>383608
This epic meme falls on its face when you consider heaven, the higher realms, whatever, as just a place where those who only freely what is good congregate
>>383718
>Sure, but if it isn't benevolent then why would it even bother heping its worshippers.
Because if you submit, you will gain a reward.
>>383724
Not really, because if free will can exist without people being bad then there wasn't any need to create bad people in the first place.
>>383732
>Because if you submit, you will gain a reward.
There is no way of knowing that if god is an evil cunt that isn't benevolent.
>>383736
Your projecting human failings, namely sense-lust and all the failings and excess of the ego, onto supernal beings whose natures are self-sufficient, self actualizing, and eternal
>>383724
Nobody has ever only done good
So either people are free to occasionally fuck up, even in heaven, or people in heaven aren't free to act
Or they've been fundamentally altered in some way to only ever desire to do good, which begs the question of why you don't just do that to everyone from the get-go
>>383584
God is benevolent, omnipotent, omniscient and ubiquitous.
But God is irrational.
>>383584
Well, this returns to potentials and actuals for good and evil. To get rid of evil, God would have to destroy potential and actual evil- both of which are found in man. However, man is also naturally good (see beginning Genesis 1:31) and God doesn't take pleasure in death (Ezekiel 19:32) so God is patient, wishing for us to repent and accept his gift of salvation (2 Peter 3:9). But, even so, God will act. Whenever it is will be too early, and it will come like a theif in the night (Revelation 16:15).
>>383835
one cannot be wholly benevolent and irrational at the same time
>>383819
>speculating about the logical consistency of metaphysical realities
>>383584
If evil did not exist, choosing to do evil would be impossible. If choosing to do evil was impossible, free will would not exist. If free will did not exist, existence would be pointless. Additionally, when people talk about the problem of evil. They often talk about things like natural disasters and diseases. Those aren't evil. They just are.
>>383620
Evil there is used in a sense that isn't used any more. It would me more accurate to translate thag as fortune and misfortune.
>>383606
> Judging someone for something they haven't done yet
That would be bad.
>>383597
>3. Plotinus' metaphysics (only airtight theodicy I've ever encountered)
Give us the one post description, then.
Thanks, anon. Thanon.
>>383620
It's just that some people define all of gods actions as good.
As though god invented morality.
Why do we often hear about how we are living in secular non-religious times but here we still see people debate the idea of "God" existing?
>>383952
Because religious observance is down and religion has little influence in daily life/governance
>>383584
>disproving a poorly defined god with another poorly defined term
You are playing right into the hands of theists.
>>383966
>implying theists don't rely on the definition of god remaining poor
>>383939
All multiplicity, dualities, subject and object emanate from a primordial unity known as the One. The One is pure and infinite consciousness, the potentiality for all residents and Ground of Being.
The One emanates the world much like a sun cannot help but give off heat. In other words, it is a natural process. As the divine is filtered down successively more imperfect grades of reality, with the originally unified divine substance splitting into modality much like white light contains all colors of the rainbow, we arrive at the material universe. Matter, after all, is just slowed down energy. It blindly obeys laws of its own, which manifest in us as bodily drives and appetites, and the ego. The indifference of the material universe, coupled with the blind desires of the body, explain the presence of evil. QED. No omni benevolent thinking, feeling God to account for, just pure Light naturally filtering down until it becomes less subtle and more subject to gross physicality and its laws.
>>383584
2, 4, 3, 1, 5, in that order.
>>383635
it could make sense if you see hell not as punishment, but as the fate of the unlucky
yes, god doesn't cause evil
>>384168
my man
>>383606
this flow chart tries to force you to think in certain terms without actually trying to explain anything
god permits evil to exist ('permissive will') but it has been given a finite timeline in which it can exist, before the second coming of christ. you can say that he hasn't done anything to prevent evil from occurring, but he actually has, by giving his son to us, so that we could be saved when the time comes. the image of sin was destroyed on the cross and satan defeated. time since then has been a playing out of the end of evil and a return of mankind to the image of god, as containers for him through the tree of life -- the life-giving spirit of christ
get BTFO by the emperor himself
>>384359
A valid view to have on life.
Much better than this Richard Dawkins bullshit I have to endure from the neckbeards.
>>384359
Based Marcus BTFO of hedonists.
>>384359
OP here.
That quote 100% agrees with me.
You do know what BTFO means, right?
>>384359
Now we only need to know what a good life is, and then to live that life, and we're set.
>>384359
...only he never said that
>>384359
>>384548
>>385115
Actual quote:
"Since it is possible that thou mayest depart from life this very moment, regulate every act and thought accordingly. But to go away from among men, if there are gods, is not a thing to be afraid of, for the gods will not involve thee in evil; but if indeed they do not exist, or if they have no concern about human affairs, what is it to me to live in a universe devoid of gods or devoid of Providence? But Gods there are, undoubtedly, and they regard human affairs; and have put it wholly in our power, that we should not fall into what is truly evil."
>>384359
So instead of one person telling you to be good and just, you'd rather listen to this guy telling you to be good and just?
>>383972
Yeah, that's my point. Call them out on that instead of using further wishy-washy terms like evil.
>>385148
>So instead of one person telling you to be good and just out of fear, you'd rather listen to this guy telling you to be good and just for the sake of being good?
FTFY
>>385128
Because Marcus used words like "thou"?
>>384168
4, 2, 5, 3, 1 is the superior order
>>385338
Thou is just a polite way of saying 'you'.
People speaking English forget that because they are rude little shits.
>>383584
Normal for the spider, chaos for the fly, etc.
Try a real argument next time
>>383584
evil isn't real
