ITT: The Second Indochina War
The War in Vietnam ended the way wars would be fought in the modern world, it seemed to strip the "innocence" of the US and manage to suck countries like South Korea, Australia/New Zealand and the Phillipines.
Let's discuss the pivotal event in History, share stories and any pictures from the conflict
possibly the worst modern war to be a veteran of
>most average in-combat fighting hours per infantryman of any war in the past century
>hot, humid jungle, always raining, bugs and animals everywhere getting in your shit, disease
>booby traps and a silent, hidden enemy that didn't want to fight in the open often
Basically the perfect recipe for a special brand of PTSD
and then you come home and have people spit in your face and go homeless
>>380164
>Suck in
The ROK was fucking EAGER to go at it.
>>380178
Commie gooks are wiped off while gook women love you long time amirite?
>>380178
Conditions were similar to that of the philippine-american war, though I don't know about fighting hours per infantryman in that particular war.
idk what seems most unique about it was simply how publicized it was in comparison to previous wars.
>>380197
The constant media stream of battle footage, the wounded-dead, etc. on the TVs of Americans nationwide no doubt played a role in accelerating the conclusion of the war prior to a favorable result
>>380178
I did some jungle warfare training in Malaysia, I'm not an infantryman but my platoon worked directly for them (AAVs) but I decided to volunteer for a "patrol" in the jungle. It was absolutely hellish, the heat and humidity feels like its choking you, the terrain is the very definition of hostile and you had to do it with your combat load and weapon. It dawned on me that I was hating my life in TRAINING, how horrible mustve it been for those poor bastards, both America and Vietnamese, in Vietnam who had to do all that and fight?
>>380213
Are you Singaporean soldier?
>>380213
The vietnamese were raised in such conditions, so it wasn't as bad for them.
That aside, it's funny you mention Malaysia, the brits fought a very successful insurgency there. If I recall correctly, they didn't just send in any soldiers, only certified hard-ass motherfuckers, since yeah it would have been horrible for anyone else.
>>380254
It's certainly worse, but it's a matter of how worse. Compared to previous conditions, it's not as bad as going for cushy american suburban life to the jungle.
>>380254
What is like stationed in those kind of weather? I always thought it would be more comfortable fighting in the tropical weather since it only have one season.Plus you don't have to worry about being froze to death like in Russia
>>380276
There's actually two seasons, none of which are desirable.
>>380276
>one season
It is usually at least 6.
>>380276
I was only there for two weeks training with the Malaysian marines in some uncharted part of the country they had recently "liberated" from Islamic terrorist but I had to live on ship for months in the southeast ocean while having to work in the welldeck of the ship where all the heat and humidty seemed to pool up in, needless to say I was very miserable in both places.
Other marines who have been stationed to place like Okinawa will paint a better picture of having to live in a hot and humid location. I personally cannot do the heat and humidty coming from the high desert, Kuwait and the middle east was easier to deal with for me.
>>380164
>The War in Vietnam ended the way wars would be fought in the modern world, it seemed to strip the "innocence" of the US
Wrong. Vietnam didn't change how wars were fought. It was the book "Ugly American" that came out in 1963. JFK loved it so much he gave a copy to each of his colleges. Unfortunately, a year later he was dead and LBJ proved incapable of figuring out how to fix it.
America's "innocence" was lost in the Civil War by the way. However, in the 20th century the confidence that built up in the government under FDR (via his democrat consensus) was utterly, completely, destroyed when LBJ chose not to run for a second term. The DNC suddenly had their pants down and crumbled between three candidates in '68 meanwhile a literal riot happened outside the convention hall.
Then up came Nixon, Eisenhower's veep who promised Peace With Honor. Nixon was smart and well liked, he bombed the shit out of Cambodia and forced the NVA into a peace deal that got the US off the hook. Despite a breakdown of relations with OPEC (causing the oil crisis) he confidently bailed out all the railroads in the US by creating Amtrak, and created the EPA to give teeth to pollution laws (which is why LA's smog problem isn't a third of what it was in the 60s).
But, it all came down with Watergate. That completely smashed whatever hope people had left in the ability for the government to fix things. Nixon himself chose to resign, effectively admitting guilt. His replacement, Gerald Ford, was about as clueless as Carter and not suited for the job.
Compare Nixon's resignation speech, where he calmly and confidently self-destructs his entire career and his legacy, to Ford's inaugural address and pardoning where he nearly comes to tears:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLHc8NR_v-8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phrIdrQScr0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM9dGr8ArR0
The result was the closure of the postwar consensus, and the rise of modern neoconservatives and neoliberals
>>380287
>>380307
>There's actually two seasons, none of which are desirable.
As someone from northern Canada,marching here could mean death if you're not properly dressed.Tourist who hike mountains around here die all the time because of cold.Tropical weather on the other hand is way more comfortable and easier to move.If you're feeling hot? open your shirt.If you're bitten by mosquito,put some lotion.
Sometimes I'm just pissed at how some people say Tropical warfare is so difficult and uncomfortable while the weather is paradise compared to our weather.There's a reason why Bahamas and Thailand is a famous tourist attraction compared to Iceland
>>380276
Not him but,
>in dry season sometimes you find yourself drinking more than 2 liters of water in the day
>in the rain season you put your poncho on to keep yourself dry, only to find yourself drenched in sweat within an hour
>your feet won't be dry at any weather
>the mud love to stick on your boots, adding a pound of weight
>>380229
>malaysia insurgency
malays love to slaughter the chinks/commies.
>>380308
Fucking Christ Nixon was such a good president
Why did he have to be so petty and small-minded? He had a good thing going and he fucked it up by being no better than a street-corner smut peddler.
>>380324
The grass is always greener on the other side. Edmontonian here, winters prob aren't as cold as yours, but even just vacationing in the tropics feels shitty. Humid heat is not like our dry heat, shade and stripping does nothing for it. It's a sensation that's all encompassing, totally inescapable.
>>380332
Ah, well, that was part of it, you're right.
>>380308
Thanks for the links,Yea innocence wouldn't be the right word, confidence describes it better. Its always been painful for me to watch Nixon just blow it all, he had so mich going for him and he seemed like the right guy to pick up the US after the unholy clusterfuck that was Vietnam. I always wondered how informed the regular infantryman in Vietnam was about the politics behind the war
>>380337
maybe I've never been to tropical country and feel their humid weather,so I can't really comment on that.But how uncomfortable did you mean by that?
>>380334
He got paranoid, as people like him tend to do. The only thing is that he got caught. And Watergate wasn't like the NSA scandals in 2006 or 2013, Nixon was directly connected to the actual break-ins and tapings via CREEP. And the result was the GOP shattering as hard as the Democrats did, though they recovered sooner thanks to Reagan. The Democrats were aimless until Clinton came around.
>>380324
>Tropical weather on the other hand is way more comfortable and easier to move.If you're feeling hot? open your shirt.If you're bitten by mosquito,put some lotion.
If you're thirsty, drink the water.
>>380340
>I always wondered how informed the regular infantryman in Vietnam was about the politics behind the war
Same as today, soldiers are given guns and told to shoot bad people then they go on leave and fuck strippers and spend all their money making downpayments on mustangs. Boots aren't paid to be smart, they're paid to shoot people.
>>380350
Its suffocating is the best way I could describe it, you can never get comfortable and being out there in a training environment meant having that constant feeling of being wet. Absolute misery if you cant try your best to be comfortable
>>380350
Your body can't cool itself by sweating in weather where humidity is over 60%.
>>380360
It always boils down to survival for the infantry and combat arms dude, unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and there will always be militaries and men of different calibers who will go and join these militaries, I would know. It all boils down to taking care of yourself and your friends, since Vietnam they realize their cause was never worth, all that mattered to them was to get out alive of this situation they got themselves into or, for those who were drafted, got thrown into and thats how its been ever since for the infantry.
>>380350
You know those moments where you feel like you've sweat out a bit, and a cooling sensation washes over you?
That never happens ever in humid conditions.
You're probably used having one side of your body feeling hotter than the other, or simply go into the shade to get a nice cool. Nope, your whole body is the same hot temperature, shade feels exactly the same.
Your clothes all feel strange since they seem to adhere to your body so closely and rigidly, since your body has become sticky. Not wet, sticky.
>>380389
Er, that said, don't let this discourage you from considering travelling to a tropical area, after a week you're adjusted enough to not feel like dying, and air conditioning is pretty prevalent in urban areas.
>>380383
wut
Most soldiers, especially post GI bill, are in it for the benefits and ideology (ie their parents were 11b so they have to be an 11b too). Vietnam was no different than Iraq or Afghanistan except it was a jungle instead of a desert. In every war all soldiers want to do is "get out alive" especially early on when they get their first taste of combat.
>>380413
What I meant was that whatever reason you had for joining up or being there for always goes out the window for guys who have to take the brunt of the fighting. The soldier doing audits in an office or a military police officer whose never left a major military base in the states isn't going to have that deadly reality check like the infantry is. Politics, ideology, money, its all moot when you're faced with the possibility of coming home in a box, the only thing there is is the you, the man left and right of you and an enemy, who you're not really sure what he did to you or your country personally, determined to kill you.
>>380337
>Edmontonian
Same, I would rather be in 35C heat here than 25C in Ontario with humidity, I can't even breath in that shit
