After reading endless nights about how polynesia and the pacific islands were inhabited, one question still remains completely unanswered:
How did they know where to sail? I mean they made it to very remote places like the Easter islands and Hawaii, places without a constant ribbon of small midway islands.
So, how did they know where to sail? Or was it just dumb luck, one succesful voyage in a line of hundred that perished?
>>379114
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austronesian_languages
I'll add to OPs question asking how the flying fuck this language family got so far and wide, and so long ago. Madagascar to Hawaii? Fucking ridiculous.
>>379131
They really were the most advanced non-advanced culture. Whats amazing is that it took humans 100 000 years and more than 10 000 miles of migrations to get to an island thats just a thousand miles away from the possible cradle of humanity.
Most people dont even know about Madagascar being first inhabited by Austronesians.
>>379114
IIRC some hints of where to sail were the presence of certain bird species, and slight colour change on the horizon indicating the presence of an island
Also I find it amazing that the ancestors of Australian Aboriginals were able to cross at least 90km of ocean ~50,000 years ago
>>379114
It is actually quite simple when you think about it. They just followed the birds. Birds fly towards land, they can't fly forever. Naturally, if they follow the directions of the birds, they will eventually get to land.
>>379114
They always explored against water currents so if they started to run out of supplies they could rely on the water currents to take them back where they came from.
They watched for birds while exploring and kept track of wind and ocean currents using maps made of sticks and string.
>>379257
what makes a people cross vast oceans on the assumptions of birds?
>>379271
Birds don't fly towards nowhere, they fly towards land that is close enough to them. They crossed these oceans following the birds who they knew would be flying towards land.
>>379280
Some birds don't ever go to land other than to nest
>>379286
Doesn't matter, they were still going towards land.
>>379291
wot, so birds flying from place to place looking for foods sources for years at a time before going to land are worth following
Some birds species are better indicators of land than others
>>379271
>>379114
A lot of these tribes were very exile happy. Exile you for this, exile you for that, and often at war with their neighbors. Thus a lot of Romeo and Juliette scenarios to boot, and a lot folks, just wanting to get away from it all. And lots and lots and lots of fishermen getting caught in storms.
So whenever a significant number of them happened to get exiled or lost and end up in the same place in a generation or two *bam*, and just enough folks leak in over the years that follow to quit them from genetically collapsing.
>>379257
I doubt many birds migrate out of Easter islands to Polynesia
>>379299
Birds don't fly for years at a time. They simply followed the birds until the birds stopped at a nearby island, and then they would settle there. If it was unsuitable, they either go back or follow them to the next.
>>379313
From one island to the next, this took place over the course of thousands of years.
I wonder how long some of those guys were floating around out there. How much fresh water were they able to carry with them?
>>379309
>A lot of these tribes were very exile happy. Exile you for this, exile you for that, and often at war with their neighbors.
I think you are making that up.
>>379323
Yeah but you would still need birds flying between the point of origin and the point of migration. There are no smaller islands to stop at between polynesia and Hawaii
>>379323
From wiki >Shearwaters come to islands and coastal cliffs only to breed
Also are you implying that it's possible to 'follow the birds' for potentially hundreds of km's by paddling a canoe?
It's more like a certain species of bird known to spend its life in close proximity to land crosses your path flying in a particular direction, that you would change your bearing to and hope that the bird wasn't just being a sperg
>>379345
It's true of a lot of polynesian cultures at least. Almost all Hawaiian romances and heroic tales start with an exile. Granted, even if it weren't, the remaining factors would be enough, hell, the frequency of lost fishermen would be enough.
...and then there's this thing.
>>379376
I've heard some Polenysians have sacred rocks that they claim are from the mythical home island. That makes it sound like the colonization was part of their culture. It seems odd that they would give memetoes to criminals.
Maybe it was a mix. Maybe when times got tough and food ran out the least desirable people on the island would be coerced into colonizing other known and uninhabited islands.
>>379271
Birds are smart niggers.
Btw humans are like trex and other large predators that let other species kill game(cant catch up to horses), then theyd walk up to it with 8 spearmen and do the work eating the food
>>379477
A stone from the home island is taken on the waka for protection I think, Maoris still do this
>>379114
Birds means land is relatively close, certain fish inhabit particular zones.
Tbh it was a lot of guesswork, there is a reason they sailed AGAINST the wind just in case they would get stuck with only tiny islands or juts of rocks they could quickly return home.
Cool fact, an old dude with deep his balls in water to gauge current temperatures.
>>379376
What did they make the sails of on relatively tiny islands? Did they really have all that rigging before Cook?
>>380047
>Cool fact, an old dude with deep his balls in water to gauge current temperatures.
I can't believe that. It sounds too much like a joke about saggy testes.
>>380058
Google "Polynesia testicle navigation"
>>380081
I don't want to. This is getting too silly. I refuse to allow myself to get caught up in this silliness.
>>379257
This is partly true. Watching tides, reading cloud movement patterns, certain stars in position at night. They even made maps that look like abacae that can be set for accurate currents and wind directions. If anyone goes to hawaii, there is a pacific islander museum. They have an exhibit on how they traveled. Neat stuff.
>>380109
In retrospect that scene sounds a lot like a lot of internet discussions I've been in.
>>380053
Well, if you found a few closeby islands through more primitive means, and found out there were bigger fish in deeper waters, you'd have more than enough motivation to start making better sea vessels. If anything, being on a network of islands gives you more reasons to explore better sea faring tech, than does living on a continent.
Granted, there's some controversy as to whether it was a actually a thing, but some rich hippies proved it could be done with primitive methods and materials, basing the plans on some old tales. Good as explanation as any, at least when you're not asking if it happened, but how.
>>380137
By the king's beard! You're right.
>>380159
But, like, what did they make the sails out of?
>>380201
Same shit they made clothes from I assume. Flax, hemp, cotton, canvas. Ya got sheep, ya got knives - ya work it out.
>>380109
Seriously though I'm a biologist
>>379370
Shearwaters actually don't go to land other than nesting, ever heard of this thing birds do called floating
Some birds even 'sleep' with half their brain at one time
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unihemispheric_slow-wave_sleep
>Many species of birds and marine mammals have advantages due to the capability to undergo unihemispheric slow-wave sleep including, but not limited to, an increased chance of the evasion of potential predators and the ability to sleep during migration. Unihemispheric sleep aids in the visual vigilance of the environment, the preservation of movement, and in cetaceans, the controlling of the respiratory system
>>379204
>first inhabited by Austronesians
Archaeozoology shows signs of human habitation before the Malagasy came, and their legends speak of people called Vazimba already inhabiting the island before they came.
>>380650
But anon, this goes contrary to the belief that blacks are inferior and unable to island hop.
But yes there is mounting evidence for that and it's quite interesting really.
