What role did Islam have in ushering in the Dark Ages in Europe? Would you say it was directly and solely responsible or only mostly responsible?
In 632, Mohammed dies and his followers continue spreading his teachings. 711, the Moors invade the Iberian peninsula, and continue their advance on Europe until they are stopped by Charles Martel at the Battle of Tours in 732. The Reconquista doesn't begin driving Muslims out of Europe until the 13th century, and finishes expelling the final hold-outs from Iberia in 1609. Meanwhile, as the Black Death, a disease imported from the Middle East, gripped Europe, Constantinople, crippled for hundreds of years from attacks by Islamic extremists, fell in 1453 to the Ottomans; there wasn't a shining city on the hill to lead the developed world anymore, and the continent descended into barbarism for hundreds of years.
>Dark Ages
>>373879
There certainly were what could be called a "dark ages", just not nearly as long as commonly depicted and less-expansive in topics it affected. Specifically, population and infrastructure suffered greatly.
I can tell you right now the Muslim presence in Iberia was a major benefactor for Christian Iberian technology. The christian refugees that migrated from the al-andalus brought with them lots of agricultural and technological advances.
Also, do you believe what's in your post? Because "islamic extremists" is about as damning as saying "the tyrannic sultan" considering there had been 9 crusades by that point.
And by 1453, we were already close to the renaissance, in 1514 Portugal took Ceuta which was the start of the Age of Discoveries.
>>373868
>What role did Islam have in ushering in the Dark Ages in Europe?
None.
>Would you say it was directly and solely responsible or only mostly responsible?
Considering how the Western Roman Empire fell in 476, the only way Islam could have caused the Dark Ages was if Mohammed had a fucking time machine.
>>373913
Are you saying that they weren't Islamic or that they weren't extremists? I'm confused. Or are you implying that the first nine Crusades came before the Islamic encroachment into Europe, in 711?
>And by 1453, we were already close to the renaissance
>>crippled for hundreds of years before 1453
>>373929
I'll take that as a "mostly."
>>373929
Well, Justinian had taken back much of the West. Granted, his successors had lost a good bit of that progress, but the Eastern Roman Empire was still playing a role in Western Europe.
Jesus Christ, what ignorance and bias.
>>373942
What ignorance and bias?
>>373931
The Muslims were invited into Spain
Black death did a lot of good for Europe. The surviving peasants had never had life so good
>>373913
Muslim conquest of North Africa, Spain and raids into France&Italy certainly had an effect in keeping europe down and hampering recovery
>>373952
You mean they invaded Spain.
>>373868
Same as today.
>>373961
You left out the bit where the Goths invited them to settle a dispute
>>373931
>Constantinople, crippled for hundreds of years from attacks by Islamic extremists, fell in 1453 to the Ottomans; there wasn't a shining city on the hill to lead the developed world anymore, and the continent descended into barbarism for hundreds of years.
They were just as hardcore religious extremists as were european peoples.
You are also suggesting Constantinople or the Byzantines were head of a medieval European Union which they were not.
>>374010
it was literally a military campaign
>>374038
That's not entirely accurate. Christians of the time were more extreme than today, but at its core, Christianity was a religion in which forgiveness was possible. Islam was - and still is today - a religion that kills non-believers and stones even believers to death for minor transgressions.
>>374063
Just go back to /pol/, you ignorant ape.
>>374072
>the moors were invited to spain
>islam is the religion of peace
>the crusades were totally unprovoked
>islam isn't an extremist religion
Got anymore lies?
>>374094
I've said none of those things.
>>374100
Yet you don't reject them.
>>374102
10/10 ruse bro, you totally memed on me hardcore.
>>373868
islamic al andaluz was one of the wealthiest cultural centers in the entire world. islamic iberian intellectuals like ibn-rushd were largely responsible for the reintroduction of extremely valuable ideas like those of aristotle back into western thought.
>>374267
>islamic
>intellectuals
>Holy
>Roman
>Empire
>>374286
>>373941
Justinian's Plague had more to do with the loss of the recovered Roman territories then his "successors" being at fault.
>>373941
Justinian was a fucking useless cunt, he spread his armies thin in a vain attempt to see all of the roman territories reconquered in his lifetime, then when he died they got smacked down by the persians because their garrisons were spread all across North africa for pointless reasons.
Justinian was an utter failure who looked for enemies in the wrong places.
>>373868
>What role did Islam have in ushering in the Dark Ages in Europe? Would you say it was directly and solely responsible or only mostly responsible?
If anything Islam helped Europe's rise from the 'Dark Age' into its various renaissances. The period between 400 - 700 was one of decline in almost every front imaginable for the continent. But starting with the Carolingians and the newly reformed ERE in the 8th century, the continent's demographic, social, and economic development was on the rise. The pope in describing the wars and the plagues in 600AD sounded like he was witnessing the apocalypse. But by 800 he crowned a new Western Emperor.
>>373868
>Constantinople, crippled for hundreds of years from attacks by Islamic extremists
Constantinople was crippled only once, and that was when the Fourth Crusade sacked it. Before that it remained a capital of trade and diplomacy. What the Ottomans took in 1453 was a shell of its former self.
The sack of Constantinople, and even the earlier Muslim conquests, forced many to flee west. Where do you think the wise men of Constantinople went after it fell?
Also, Prince Henry the Navigator's navigation school was full of people running from the mooslims, iirc
>>373868
Heavily responsible, parts of Africa, Spain and most of the Byzantine Empire were still heavily urbanised and had a city culture, the invasion transformed the world from Late Antiquity and turned it into the Medieval Period with the destruction of dozens of formerly major cities like Carthage which was completely and totally destroyed.
As much as I dislike Islam, your knowledge of history is completely fucked. I think you need to start over.
>>375012
>muh wise men of Constantinople
>muh secret ancient knowledge
>>373868
>All this bs...
The moors didn't invade Hispania in 711. They had just been kuked by the arabs, which had taken Carthage just a few years before. They were hardly even muslim yet. The invasion force of 711 had 2 contingents, one of arabs, mostly syrians, and one of recently kuked berbers, with the arabs in overall command.
Le meme battle of Tours didn't stop muslim incursions into France, Italy and Switzerland. They continued on until the X century. But the main responsible guy for preventing a permanent, large scale settling and occupation of clay beyond the Pyrenees by muslim forces was Duke Odo of Aquitaine.
Also, by the mid XIII century the only part of Spain under muslim rule was the kingdom of Granada, and as a vassal of Castille. The main turn around and push of the Reconquista happened in the XI.
>What role did Islam have in ushering in the Dark Ages in Europe?
Well they did give the finishing blow to the Great Library of Alexandria. Kind of ironic given that Arabs really seemed to like Greek literature.
Aside from that I can't think of anything.
>>373868
Black Death was the best thing to happen to Europe for a long time t: Malthus pro
>>373868
>and finishes expelling the final hold-outs from Iberia in 1609
What? You know that the moriscos expulsed were christians, right?
>>375679
Moor in the Iberian context means north african muslim and by extension just muslim from whatever place. Tarik, Musa and all their troops were moors.
>>374044
He is right that they were invited, he just explains it like shit since he probably has a limited knowledge to begin with.
The goths of Spain were having yet another dynastic war, and one of the sides invited the moors calling for help. The moors used this pretext to enter the peninsula and conquer it.
>>374543
Not to mention that his generals campaigns completely ruined Italy.
>>373868
Considering that the Dark Ages (If we're going to use that term instead of "Low Medieval Period") date from Roughly the coming of Attila the Hun to the Crowning of Charlegmagne, the muslims had nothing to do with it. They weren't even on the scene until the Dark Ages were coming to a close.
>>373929
GOTHED
>>373868
It has been suggested that the Islamic conquests finally ended the antique, Mediterranean-centred economy and started the medieval trade networks in northern Europe because it forced powers like Frankia to look to the north for trade rather than south
>>374267
WE WUZ PHILOSOPHERS N SHIT
This thread reeks of /pol/ faggotry desu
>>377524
They were, yes. There was a lot of hype from Scholastics in England and France about the works being translated then in Spain.
>>377472
My personal opinion: Islam caused the end of the late Classical Period in Mespotamia and the Near East, kind of like how the collapse of the Western Roman Empire ushered in the end of Antiquity in Western and Northern Europe, the fall of the Persian Empire did the same over there.
So more less the fall of WRE and SPE in the late 5th and late 7th centuries ended antiquity for good.
>>377472
That was Pirenne's original thesis. Since then archaeology has pushed this shift back about a century before Muhammad was even born.
>>377524
But that's true
>>377541
You can't cause the end of something that's just a term someone made up centuries later to arbitrarily separate one span of time from another. Besides, there was a lot more continuity in culture and society between the Sassanids and the Caliphates than there were between the WRE and the HRE.
>>373868
literaly a-chronological
as in not according to chronology
as in the event claimed to have caused an event occured centuries AFTER the event its claimed to have caused
moron
moron
you are a moron
>Dark Ages
>>377573
>there was a lot more continuity in culture and society between the Sassanids and the Caliphates
No there wasn't. There was no continuity at "all" until the Abbasids came to power.
>>377606
The Umayyads were very hands off when it came to culture and society between their elite Arab circles and the Roman/Persian masses. And it lasted only about a century. Compared to the gap between the last sack of Rome and Charlemagne's crowning, that's almost nothing.
>>377636
And that changes nothing of what I said, there was no cultural fusion or continuity between the Caliphate and Persians until the VERY Persianized Abbasids come to power more then a century after the fall of Persia.
>Charlemagne's crowing
>HRE
Don't do this senpai.
>>373868
Holy motherfucker what a bunch of stupid inaccurate bullshit smashed up together I cant even what the fuck is this what they are teaching at american shools?
>In 632, Mohammed dies and his followers continue spreading his teachings.
yeah, except thats 200 years into the dark ages already
> 711, the Moors invade the Iberian peninsula, and continue their advance on Europe until they are stopped by Charles Martel at the Battle of Tours in 732
well good for them, nothing to do with the cause of dark ages
> The Reconquista doesn't begin driving Muslims out of Europe until the 13th century, and finishes expelling the final hold-outs from Iberia in 1609
hundreds of years AFTER the fucking dark ages
>Meanwhile, as the Black Death, a disease imported from the Middle East
black death ravaged europe long before and long after the dark ages
>Constantinople, crippled for hundreds of years from attacks by Islamic extremists
Constantinople was besieged 10 times or so, once by Avar/Slav/Persian coalition, twice by Arabs, once by Bulgars, three times by Rus, twice by a pretender Emperor, etc. and it got barely even touched but the most damage was from a derailed crusade in 1204 by fellow christians who sacked the city for 3 days
>and the continent descended into barbarism for hundreds of years
yeah fuck you and your stupid shit
>>375733
The Library of Alexandria was either gone by the time the Romans arrived, or Caesar himself burned it to the ground. Since then the three or four incidents of the library's destruction is just speculation with little evidence to support either the destruction event even occurring or whether the things that burned down constituted the Great Library of antiquity to begin with.
Muslim conquests disrupted Mediterranean trade, which was crippling. Though to be fair, Western Europe never was that advanced, East was where the wealth resided.
Important Christian centers like Africa, Egypt and Levant fell to Muslim conquest.
>>378491
>Muslim conquests disrupted Mediterranean trade
It was already disrupted by the collapsing Sassanid Empire's infighting.
Only normalized when Abbasids and T'ang Dynasty met in the middle of Afghanistan, fought, and withdrew to their separate Hegemonies.
>>378506
While that was a setback, Muslim conquests was a bigger one.
Besides, like half of Christian world (and a richer half) fell into Muslim hands.
>>373868
this might be the single dumbest thread running right now
>What role did Islam have in ushering in the Dark Ages in Europe? Would you say it was directly and solely responsible or only mostly responsible?
is this a serious question? if yes, kill yourself. if no: nice bait thread 10/10 i'm mad
>>373868
>Dark Ages
>Muhammad born 200 years into them
>Continuing to overstate the Battle of Tours when the Muslim expansion had ended well before then
>Black death being imported from the Mid East
>Constantinople crippled by Muslims and not the 4th crusade
>Calling Constantinople a shining city
>Continent descended into barbarism for hundreds of years
Can someone get this retard's wrangler? I don't know how he got onto a computer but this shit is just shameful
>>373879
>There were some inventions during the dark ages
>Therefore there wasn't a huge lull in advancement between Rome and the Renaissance
Nice leap frogposter
Constantinople was basically a shitty bunch of yurts surrounded by a wall when the turks conquered it. They had to rebuild the entire city because it was in an appalling state of disrepair.
>>378679
Eeeeeeexcept for gunpowder, spectacles, clocks, hindu numerals, the printing press, the compass, the astrolabe, artesian wells, windmills, wheelbarrows, horseshoes, horsecollars, moldboard ploughs, stirrups, longbows, full plate armor, etc.
>>378630
That's debatable. But yeah, op is dumb as a turd
>>379220
But half those things weren't invented in Yurop.
>>378491
>Muslim conquests disrupted Mediterranean trade
By the 6th and 7th century, Mediterranean shipping was completely dominated by Syrian and Egyptian merchantmen. Nothing about that changed with the Arab Conquest. Furthermore, throughout the 7-10th centuries, diplomacy, trade and pilgrimage from Italy to Constantinople was mostly undertaken by sea (aboard Muslim ships no less) more than by overland roads through Greece as the Slavic migrations in the Balkans were more disruptive than Arab piracy.
>>374010
like the native brits invited the anglo saxons to fight for them?
Most people refer to what the anglo saxons did as an invasion
'the dark ages' only apply to Europe. Shit was popping everehere else
>>382035
Western Europe*
