>Russians are only good at zerg tactics
How did this meme start?
>>366181
It started in 1941.
>>366181
Wehraboos needed to manufacture a reason as to why they lost the war in the east despite muh German supersoldiers and muh German superscience.
>>366189
>Russian numbers is just a fallacy used by Wehraboos
>>366189
>Russian numbers is just a feel good lie used by Wehraboos
>>366189
THIS.
>>366189
The fact that Germany had better soldiers and equipment is pretty indisputable. What they lacked was logistics and manpower. That's what cost them the war.
>>366193
>>366195
Consider. According to Rutiger Overmans work, the Germans lost about 5.5 million soldiers. About 80% of that was on the Eastern Front, so we're talking about 4.4 million German losses.
Soviet military casualties of WW2 are estimated to be 8.5-11.5 million, depending on who you ask.
Barbarossa alone accounted for 4 million.If you take away the massive losses due to surprise, the ratio for the rest of the war is 1.01:1-1.7:1.
They weren't drowning the Germans in their own bodies when they started winning, they were fighting, fighting hard, and actually winning battles.
Endless waves of Slavic soldiers running on until they buried the Germans under a tide of bodies is just revisionist bullshit.
>>366181
German smokescream, as most military sterotypes
>Beaten by Soviets
But they used human waves!
>Defeated in WWI
Why was Italy not my ally?
>Defeated in WWII
Why was Italy my ally?
>Surrender in both WWs
Look at France and laugh! They surrendered in WWII!
>>366181
I'd blame the barrier troops for it.
>>366186
I'd argue it started when Fredrick said it is easier to kill Russians then to defeat them. But in context, he was highly praising them.
This kinda thought died by the time of Napoleon, but was revisited after The Russo-Japanese war (despite the fact that this wasn't done).
The idea was forgotten then in the beginning of Barbarossa, Russia seemed to do things similar to this (like how Poland is often claimed to have used Cavalry swords against Germany's tanks) but it was often done by units unaffiliated with the military (aka Militia).
But yeah, that became the popular idea afterword when in reality they were writing the new book on mechanized warfare with Bagration and the Dneriper offenseive.
Daily reminder that Germany çucked the Soviet Union way harder than the Soviets çucked Germany.
>Germans raped way more Soviet women than the other way around
>Germans killed way more Soviets (both military and civilian)
>>366207
Say what you will about the Germans, they never needed to threaten their troops with death just to get them to advance.
>W-we only lost b-because there were too many of t-them
t.wehraboos
>Commies can't fight they only one because they had more people lol totally
t.anti coms and burgers
really it's just to try and stop any sort of praise or validation for the USSR
of course during Barbarossa it happened a lot but by 43 it was pretty much gone and the USSR was no longer using desperation tactics.
>>366223
Of course not.
Germanys national virtue is obedience.
>>366228
>they only one
Back to your çuckshed, illiterate russiaboo
>>366219
>Half your country gets occupied by commies as a literal Soviet satellite state for 50 years
>You keked the USSR
Nice try Franz
>>366234
>east Germany
>half of Germany
Holy fuck you are dumb. The Soviets basically held on to the shit part of germany
well when their top general says that a bullet is shit and waves of bayonet charging retards is the way to go, no wonder that people start laughing
>>366242
And the other half was keked by Anglos.
German women were sucking off Irish dudes in one half of the country, and Russian dudes in the other
Germany was kek central
>>366242
>Prussia and Bavaria
>Shit part of Germany
kek
>>366181
>>366181
>>366181
The primary source of the meme are memoirs of the German generals and their apologists line that liar Paul Carell. They wrote that German soldiers were basically superhumans led by the most brilliant minds who ever walked this earth. Thus they explained the miserable failure of the German army with two things: 1. Hitler's interference and 2. Russian zerg rushes. Both factors are debatable at best. They were mostly complete bullshit. The Soviet Union had for a time much lower manpower at its disposal than Germany and the size of both armies on the front was comparable. The whole German armed forces were actually larger that what the Soviets could muster.
As the war progressed, the Soviets became masters of offensive tactics. They were great both in disinformation (which led the Germans to believe that the Red Army was much larger than it really was) and in achieving very local superiority (which made the Germans to believe they were overrun by innumerable hordes).
>>366250
Bavaria wasn't part of east Germany retard. And yes, prussia was shit
>>366250
>Bavaria
U wot m8?
>>366250
>bavaria
>>366223
No but they needed to threaten them with death to hold positions on their own land
>>366249
Epic meme. One thousand upvotes
>>366233
grasping at straws the post
>>366255
>>366257
>>366258
>>366261
yeah I'm stupid, my bad
>>366266
>b-but le Soviets were ubermensch
Why are russiaboos so pathetic
>>366232
>Germanys national virtue is obedience.
There is a lot of truth to this, even today. They've just gone in the opposite direction.
>>366242
>implying thats all they lost
>>366284
>le national stereotypes
Yes, and Russians are all bear wrestling, vodka chugging, ak47 wielding commies :^)
>>366299
>Most russians AREN'T bitter alcoholics
>>366277
>The only thing that matters is K/D ratio :DDDD
real life isn't Call of Duty you autist
>>366181
I'd argue it started from Russia's unforgiving geography.
When crossing literally thousands of kilometers of flatland, grand strategy and the use of natural barriers to mount a defense goes out the window. So the Russians have to resort to raw manpower and drive forward until they reach a barrier to defend.
Russia's entire geographical strategy is to expand until they reach a place worth defending, such as the Carpathian mountains in Europe, the Tien Shan mountains in Central Asia, and the Pacific Ocean.
When those barriers are broken, it's just a long march to moscow, and all that's left is your soldiers and armor to fight off an attacker, which usually resort to human wave attacks or scorched earth policies to bleed the enemy into defeat, and it fucking works.
>>366313
>:DD
>cod
>autist
>muh meme buzzwords
That's not an argument, dipshit. I never said it was all that matters. But it does have a lot to do with how well you manage what you have. The k/d supports the argument that Russians were only good at throwing men at the Germans , without caring about casualties, meaning they had inferior tactics and strategy
>>366277
>Hurr, Ima another kid who does not know that these differences come mostly from different ways each side counted causalities.
>Hurr, Ima gonna play some more games.
Germany:
Lightly wounded - not counted.
Medium or heavily wounded, including crippled - counted as wounded.
Soviets:
Any wound - counted as wounded.
Heavily wounded - counted as "irreversible causality" together with the dead.
severally wounded - counted as
>>366334
Cool green text and 'hurr' strawmens buddy. Not so good on the damage control tho. Try again
>>366329
>operation Bagration
>Kursk
>the invasion of manchuria
>human wave zerg tactics
you're empirically wrong
>>366353
Yes and each time they had at least double the numbers as their enemy and still more casualties. What's your point Ivan?
>>366345
The differences in causality rates DO stem largely from different ways of counting causalities.
>>366375
Even if you just go off kills, 45k vs 4.5k speaks for itself
>>366362
what does that have to do with anything?
it still wasn't ayylmao rushes and human waves
also
>manchuria more casualties than the japanese
>>366206
Well, that was before and after Stalingrad, once the Russian factories had been relocated they could arm and supply their forces as well as the Germans.
>>366388
>1.5mil vs 700k
>demoralized, basically defeated enemy that has already been nuked and just wants to quit
>LE EPIC SOVIET VICTORY
>>366362
Bagration didn't have more Soviet losses than German losses, quite the reverse. Same as with Kishniev, Belgrade, and quite a lot of other battles in 44 and 45.
>>366405
it's actually a little more than 900k since the manchukuo and mengjiang supplied troops for japan as well
>>366412
Point is moot since they had overwhelmingly larger numbers in all of those. Not to mention Germans fighting a two front war and Hitler with his shitty 'stand your ground' strategy
>>366421
So, when the Germans outnumbered the Soviets like in the opening days of Barbarossa, that doesn't count to explain the huge Soviet losses?
With the Soviets having a shitty "attack at all times, no matter the odds", similar "stand your ground" orders, and often keeping units like artillery away from their organic transport?
I'll just write off a big 4 million Soviet losses now, since that obviously doesn't count.
>>366207
look at the casualty rate of both world wars the germans dominated battle to battle against every opponent. Yeah they lost but if germany had the man power of it's enemies it could have easily won.
>>366435
Samefag, actually. The thread after them had 4 posts not counting OP and 4 posters.
>>366441
If you didn't notice, the Soviets DID allow tactical retreats while Hitler strictly prohibited them on ideological grounds
>>366455
June 23rd, 7:15 AM, Stalin issued NKO Directive No. 2, an order to attack German forces wherever encountered.
9:15 pm, same day, NKO directive No 3, keep attacking, go into their territory to do so.
June 29th, exhibiting "panic or cowardice" or yes, ordering a retreat, got you shot, at least on paper.
They only "allowed" retreats in the sense that pocketed units tried to escape after the fact, and usually didn't make it.
>>366193
Well, if you add the Axis numbers, it certainly is. After the successes of Barbarossa, they were evenly matched. Only problem is that the Axis had to divert some troops to the West and South.
>>366201
>germany had better soldiers and equipment
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Kyiv University, and I’ve been involved in numerous sniper raids on Wehrmacht, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire Red army forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of NKVD spies across the GroBGermanium and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in history and the Hmelnitsky rebellion, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Red Army Rifle Division and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
>>366484
>one instance
>reflecting the whole war
>>366455
The Germans were the masters of a costly retreat.
Stalin did order his troops to stand ground ("no step back" or something like that).
>>366519
>Single largest accrual of Soviet losses
>Without which the casualty ratios drop to less than 1.2:1
>Irrelevant.
If you do not have Barbarossa, you literally have no indication whatsoever that the Germans overall fought a better war than the Soviets, zip, nada, nothing.
When Glorious Shining Wehrmacht (PBUH, Never Done Any War Crimes (tm)) spearheaded by the Professional Prussian Junker Gentlemen-Lords and Masters of Warfare aided by the Germanic Superscience, Superior Engineering, Best Tanks of the War and indomitable Spirit of Destiny and Glory amasses more men than the enemy to break through the frontline and exploit it, it's Strategic Superiority, Operational Outfoxing, Tactical Toughness.
When the soviet untermenschen (with probably mongolian blood as well) who only have one rifle per two, nay, per sixteen men, and possibly no bullets, and who are watched over by blood eyed commissars with judeobolshevik death ideology running in their veins and aiming a minimum of seventeen machineguns at every single conscript/penal platoon, gunning them down at the slightest hesitation in movement forward do it, it's russians zerg rushing.
>>366405
>"hey, why are we sending twice the number of their men, why not hold back and go for honour and stuff, you know, maybe Yuriy would appreciate dying for the motherland in a sideline offensive"
>"but Grigory, what will that do to our K/D and wiki article"
sure is 12 year old in here
>>366589
>>"but Grigory, what will that do to our K/D and wiki article"
lel
>>366545
I'm done. This shit speaks for itself
>>366589
lol
>>366181
The Russians fought a huge number of wars where they had extremly high losses and lost many battles, but won in the end, for example the Napoleonic Wars, WW1, the Winter War and WW2 and suffered high casualities in other conflicts like the Russian-Japanese War, the Russian Civil War and the failed Invasion of Poland 1920.
In the end some people came to the conclusion that Russia was just throwing meat into the grinder, because they could afford it.
>>366405
Well, one could say that for the U.S. victory during the Gulf War under very a similar context (Iraqis are outnumbered and are pretty much demoralized when the ground war started), yet many people credit the Americans with winning a "well-deserved victory"
>>366681
if you have 5 tanks and the enemy has 1 you don't fucking send in 1 tank at a fucking time
>>366512
...beautiful
>>366405
>Demoralized
The Manchuko region was considered prize and most well defended part of Japan. The Emperor and Imperial War Staff was going to move there if the US actually did do a Land invasion. While in US-Japan battles were still heavily weighted in the US favor, there was never a huge dissonance.
August Storm was considered amazing attack, and is what the Emperor said was the reason for their surrender.
The USSR did a military invasion on what was considered a military fortification the size of Western Europe in a week and dispersed and destroyed an entire Army group.
>>367668
>and is what the Emperor said was the reason for their surrender.
Sauce?
>>366181
The Russians have historically been qualitatively inferior soldiers to other European powers like Britain, France, Poland, Germany, Prussia, and Austria. Notable losses despite vastly superior numbers include the Crimean War, WWI, and the Polish-Soviet War.
Russia/Zerg: Cheaply produced units that need to establish spread as quickly as possible, are less mobile and powerful off the spread, try to assimilate other cultures for the greater empire, have an Overmind who is willing to throw forces into an unwinnable battle, they like to pit themselves against harsh climates, it's all in the wiki.
>>366207
The Germans beat the Russians in WWI, though
This could have been the USSR after WWII
>>366445
Not really, the Americans wildly outperformed the Germans. The Germans only won two battles against the Americans (Hurtgen and Kassernine), both of which were relatively minor. Axis forces took 3,500 dead during the Invasion of Italy, the Allies only took 2,000. Post D-Day, the Germans took 263,000 dead while the Western Allies only took 164,600. The Americans and British lost only ~12,500 tanks on the Western Front after D-Day, the Germans lost over 17,000. It seems pretty clear who did better
>>367668
"Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should we continue to fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation"
Yeah, that sure sounds like Hirohito was attributing Japanese surrender to Soviet Invasion. What's your source?
>>367772
b-b-but those were the bad troops! All the good troops were on the eastern front!
D-deutschland deutschland uber alles...
>>367791
I hate that fucking meme, most of the Volkssturm and Volksgrenadiers were battle hardened vets from WWI or at least fucking trained soldiers
>>366512
>trained in gorilla warfare
>gorilla
>>367881
Hello there new friend!
I would like to congratulate you on being the 20th million visitor to 4chan!
If you just take your time to post your bank account details and your SORT code, we will wire you the prize monies.
>>366666
>>367881
Is this literally your first day?
>>367705
>>367790
>Aug. 9th, Japanese Domei News intercepted a radio broadcast of the Russian declaration of war and Tokyo learned of it. Early in the morning Togo and top foreign ministry officials met and decided there was no choice but to accept the terms of the Potsdam Proclamation (197). Togo then secured the agreement of Navy Minister Yonai and Prince Takamatsu. Hirohito independently learned of the Soviet entry to the war and summoned Kido at 9:55 am, telling him "The Soviet Union declared war against us, and entered into a state of war as of today. Because of this it is necessary to study and decide on the termination of the war," according to Kido's Journal (198). Hearing this, Prime Minister Suzuki deferred to the Emperor's wishes and convened the War Council. Clearly, among the peace party, Soviet entry to the war swayed them to end the war not through Soviet mediation, but by accepting the Potsdam proclamation.
>The war party was also shocked, as the diary of Army Deputy Chief Kawabe notes considerably more shock regarding the Soviets than it does regarding the bombing of Hiroshima. Nonetheless, Army Minister Amami was not ready to surrender.
Tsuyoshi Hasegawa Racing the Enemy.
TL;DR the Japanese intended to hopefully make it not worth it for the Allies to either invade or make more bombs. And would call for Soviet mediation and surrender that way, rather than allow an unconditional surrender and be split between nations in military jurisdiction. Instead they refused to respond to the Soviet Deceleration and still tried to ask them to mediate before the Emperor decided he needed to make a deceleration of surrender.
>>367772
not a wehrboo but the germans were also fighting on a 5th of the material and were running out of experienced soldiers by late 43.
wehrboos may be retarded, but that doesnt mean the opposite is true. i think the fact that they were able to put up effective resistance against such overwhelming odds even in early '45 proves a point in itself.
>>367668
Actually, in 1945, the Kwantung army became a shell of what it once was because the majority of its elite units had already been diverted to Pacific or SEA theatre thanks to the Japan-USSR neutral pact. A lot of troops were instantly conscripted Manchurians to make up the number.
