What'r /his/'s thoughts on the morality of uncontacted peoples in the modern world?
Everyone's first reaction seems to be 'leave them alone', but if you were in their place, would you want to remain in ignorance?
It's entirely possible the Sentinelese Islanders, for example, could remain uncontacted and unaware of the rest of the world in perpetuity, if that remains the policy of the Indian government. Humanity could be setting up colonies on Mars, and these people won't even know how to make fire.
>>364069
>but if you were in their place, would you want to remain in ignorance?
That seems to be quite clearly what they want. They question, should we care about their wishes? Does a collective have the right to maintain its integrity by preventing the individual from encountering other collectives or individuals? I'd say no, and our readiness to grant some warrior king or something the sufficient souvereignty to determine the fate of generations to come betrays a deep mistrust of our own civilization.
Interesting
but I think you are asking the wrong way, I think and I assume we all do that you would first have to KNOW you have been ignorant of something to identify that ignorance
Are these people aware they are ignorant?
Probably not
Is it morally correct to bring them to our age? well I think the answer obviously lies within your own definition of morals.
My personal feelings are that no the government should not protect them but would it benefit them?
Surely they would have longer life expectancy but they would also lose a self identity for a while which could possibly drive someone insane.
I can't put myself in their place completely because I am aware of my ignorance so The answer could only ever be subjective and in my opinion no objective argument could properly exist.
>>364069
They need to learn the greatness of anime and shitposting
>>364101
I take it back there definitely is an objective argument that exists and this is it.
>>364086
I'm not assuming that. Even if it is good for them to stay uncontacted (likely so) is it right to maintain people in ignorance for their own good?
There's a lot of dystopian sci-fi that addresses that, and usually the 'moral' of the story is that it's better to be aware of reality than live in an artificial utopia.
An analogy could also be drawn with religion: it may serve a net-positive social function, but if it's fundamentally untrue is it 'right'? My gut says no.
>>364106
But they don't live artificially or in a utopia
What your sci-fi has that these people don't is a central villain so that moral argument is moot
>>364113
"Utopia" is subjective. A lot of people would say their primitive hunter-gatherer lifestyle qualifies (I don't agree though).
But their existence is clearly artificial in the modern world. They can only continue to live the way they do because there's laws and military force protecting them. If that wasn't true anyone could show up with a loaded gun and a bic lighter and make themselves god-king.
>>364117
Utopia is of course subjective I agree
But you cannot say their existence is artificial because by that argument so is ours and we are certainly more natural at this point in time
What I mean is that someone could show up with a crazy new weapon and some kind of on the fly DNA restructuring machine and make themselves god-king also
It's relative and not a point you can make in this case.
Back in the 60s(?) the Indian government tried to contact them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJQuYKYxdVI
Since then they've decided to leave them alone. Every once in a while an unlucky figherman washes ashore and is killed by the islanders.
>>364123
If there's some alien race out there that's aware of us with wildly more advanced technology, but prefers for whatever reason to keep us in ignorance of their power and existence, then our existence is artificial. We're their pets as much as the Sentinelese are ours.
They look pretty friendly here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExdEHU02Zk0
If you ask me it's better to leave them alone. Why do we need to modernise them? They have been living like this for more than a thousand years and they aren't bothering anyone.
And I honestly hope the Sentinelese continue being protected under Indian Law. They are extremely vulnerable and they would die out like the rest of the Adaman Islanders when contacted by the outside.
And they obviously want to be left alone, seeing how hostile they are. People like you are the reason why traditions and cultures are disappearing
>>364142
>Why do we need to modernise them? They have been living like this for more than a thousand years and they aren't bothering anyone.
Because we need more people to shitpost on the internet.
>>364142
>If you ask me it's better to leave them alone. Why do we need to modernise them? They have been living like this for more than a thousand years and they aren't bothering anyone.
What country do you live in?
What if the rest of the world said your country shouldn't have the internet, since you were fine and happy for thousands of years before it existed. And besides, it's nice for sentimental reasons to keep quaint relics of the past around.
>yfw the Sentinal Islander's ignorance of Christ is the only thing preventing the Second Coming.
>>364153
I'm from Cyprus.
If I was a guy from an uncontacted tribe do you really think I would give a shit about having internet or not? They don't need things like that. They don't want to change so why force them into it?
>>364153
BUT to make your point you would have to say if he lived in a country that HAD no internet and was not aware of it
What you propose is taking something AWAY that was previously there
It's impossible once you are aware
I would want to be enlightened personally. I think about it like this. If there were aliens watching us right now that could teach us how to do so much more than we already know how, would we want it? I would say yes. Would are culture change? definitely. Would much of it be forgotten? Possibly. But is culture so important that we could not sacrifice it for something bigger? I think our culture would adapt and incorporate what we learned. Maybe even contribute something to the aliens in the process.
>>364174
>Would are
fuck its way to late for me to be posting. I'm delusional
>>364160
>If I was a guy from an uncontacted tribe do you really think I would give a shit about having internet or not? They don't need things like that. They don't want to change so why force them into it?
My point is that's an easy position to take from your position, having access to all of humanity's connective advancement. But I really don't think you'd trade your position for their 'blissful ignorance'. So why is something that's not OK for you OK for them?
A more realistic analogy could be the fact that you speak English. I bet a lot of people (inside and outside of Cyprus) would have wrung their hands over this 'regrettable loss of culture/distinctness'; they'd have preferred you didn't learn it and remained a living museum piece. But that would have cut you off from the rest of the world and it's knowledge to a significant extent.
>>364174
I love your optimism right now it made me happy even though you and I know it's obviously far fetched but I like how you have thought a little bit further about the possibility.
I think we should just drop napalm on them, desu
>>364157
I came here to post this
>>364117
>They can only continue to live the way they do because there's laws and military force protecting them. If that wasn't true anyone could show up with a loaded gun and a bic lighter and make themselves god-king.
Isn't that true for us too?
>>364186
You wouldn't think that a waste of resources for the non existent payoff?
Don't Africans have grievances about colonialists bringing modern tech to them? Or is this some kind of misrepresentation by leftists?
It's more usful to keep them around to study them. Keep in mind these people are even more sub-human than the Abbos, nothing good can come from bringing them into society. At least by letting them keep their mud huts we have an opportunity to study something rare. When we invent cloaking technology we can study them even more in detail.
>>364199
I don't care, they piss me off
the common cold would probably kill them
>>364069
>Everyone's first reaction seems to be 'leave them alone', but if you were in their place, would you want to remain in ignorance?
They know we're here and they've made no effort to contact us. I'm content to leave them be until they do. Let them decide.
>>364208
hahaha why?
>>364185
But what if we were to bring them ideas of enlightenment and the like. Surely these people must still share many of the qualities in humans we find admirable, like curiosity and empathy. Some would appreciate it, some would resent it.
>>364193
Maybe not the best way to put it.
Take the uncontacted tribes of the Amazon. Its doubtful any will exist before too long, not simply because of the forceful impact of the outside world (loggers cutting down their forests or killing them outright, missionaries, disease, etc.) but because of the draw of the outside world. Once you're aware of electric light, outboard motors, drugs that can cure previously incurable diseases, ALCOHOL... how can you ever go back?
>these people won't even know how to make fire.
Pretty sure they do.
>>364202
but DAT ASS
>Humanity could be setting up colonies on Mars
And still be miserable
Leaving them alone is the only sensible choice
>>364230
Apparently they don't.
The Tasmanian aborigines also apparently lost this knowledge.
It's interesting that technology can actually regress when people are isolated for long enough (since the people who first settled these islands - when they were connected to the mainland IIRC - certainly did have fire).
nigger Indians? keep them on their shitty island
>>364244
They're lucky they didn't get assigned to Burma.
3 thoughts
1: we should make contact, the idea that there is something inherently wrong with making contact is a fantasy for hipsters fresh from watching avatar, there are also practical reasons why contact should be made, the world isn't cupcakes and ice cream and they need to know what is happening elsewhere just in case the world goes to shit in 50 years and a band of gunmen decide to genocide them which could very easily happen if they are unable to procure arms and are cut off diplomatically and politically
2: they should be given the island as property, a kind of local government reservation type thing close knit hunter gatherer societies are ostensibly democratic, more so than some of the shithole governments elsewhere in the world
3: I am not a hippy but I recognize the modern world has a tendency to fuck shit up for indigenous peoples, so yes, they should also be warned against selling their land to loggers and avoid alcohol and drugs, though this does not mean they should not earn a little money allowing highly publicized foreign journalists and documentary makers to visit, selling native arts and crafts, gain the benefits of modern medicine and contraception so they can implement family planning or send teenage sons to be educated in the west so they can bring back information and maybe lead them in the future
>>364238
>Many produce fire by rubbing stones, fish and hunt with bow and arrow and live in leaf and straw community huts. And they don't take kindly to intrusions.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6786476/ns/world_news-tsunami_a_year_later/t/stone-age-cultures-survive-tsunami-waves/#.VmQlVvkrK00
>>364215
They seem arrogant
it is possible to give them the protection and independence they need like the tribes of papua new guinea
>>364248
>rubbing stones
I don't think the author knows much about palaeolithic methods of making fire
>>364246
Sounds good in theory, but these are the steps prescribed to 'natives' all over the world with disastrous results and/or complete assimilation.
Show me anywhere in the world where a middle ground between traditional ways and globalized modernity is sustainable? It really seem to be one or the other, and trying to artificially suspend yourself in between is a recipe for social failure (since you can no longer sustain yourselves in the traditional ways, but you can't compete in the modern world without giving everything traditional up).
>>364069
>Hey guys they don't know about [unthinkable concept] i bet they are sad about it
>We should tell them
Yeah no
>>364248
I think this is addressing the Andaman Islands generally. Also >NBC news
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinelese_people
>There is no evidence of either agricultural practices or methods of producing fire.[3]
>>364272
Also you can look at their island on Google Earth (satellite view). There's no evidence of human habitation at all: it's COMPLETELY covered in forest, which wouldn't be the case if they had fire.
>>364182
I learn English because I want to. I know Cypriots who don't know English and are fine with not knowing.
The Sentinelese don't want to learn more, they hate outsiders and they seem to be perfectly fine with their current way of living.
It would be cruel of you to force me to learn English if I didn't want to and if it wasn't beneficial to me.
>>364182
>So why is something that's not OK for you OK for them?
Because they don't have the concept of it
They cannot miss TV when they cannot imagine what a TV is. They will never go to civilisation and ask for TVs.
A deaf man can wish to hear but a deaf dog can't because the dog doesn't have the concept of it since he was not taught of it
>>364069
It doesn't really matter. If and when their society wants to develop technologically, they will. Otherwise modernizing them should be done with incredible caution and slowness, something mankind has never done or manage to do, AFAIK.
As >>364133 said, it is possible that there are ayys out there who possess technology we could only dream of. Supposing this is actually the case, in what way does it change anything for those of us who live in modern societies?
>>364272
>put down that NBC News, and pick up a Wikipedia!
I never seen such misplaced snobbery in all my life.
Also, the very same website you link states:
> Fires are maintained as embers inside dwellings, possibly assisted by resin torches.
>>364300
>As >>364133 (You) said, it is possible that there are ayys out there who possess technology we could only dream of. Supposing this is actually the case, in what way does it change anything for those of us who live in modern societies?
It means those aliens are assholes for patronizing us and treating us like a science experiment.
The gene pool must be rather small on their little island now. I wonder how much of a difference they would have from the rest of humanity after another 30-50 generations.
>>364303
Preserving fire isn't the same as starting it.
IIRC the Tasmanians were also known to preserve fire (from natural lightening strikes), but they didn't know how to make it.
>>364202
The first thing they should do, once they invent nano spy bots, is to see what the people on that island are up to. Would shed a lot of light on early humanity.
>>364321
Well i've heard that 500 individuals is good for being able to resist the effect of small population genetics.
However this population could be more genetically diverse just from a fluke genetic bottleneck, such as non Africans being more closely related to each other than Africans, while Africa contains by far the greatest human genetic diversity
>>364321
They've been all on their own there for thousands of years, although I wonder if there wasn't some gene flow between N. Sentinel and Great Andaman in the past (i.e. the total isolation of the Sentinelese might be new).
After the big Indian Ocean tsunami I remember people thinking they might have been wiped out, but apparently they were fine (they've had eons to work that problem out presumably).
>>364069
We would all kill them as soon as we sneeze on them anyway, why not just leave them alone?
http://magazine.good.is/articles/isolated-sentinelese-people
>Using DNA from the surrounding tribes and the unique isolation of the Sentinelese language, we suspect that the Sentinelese’s singular genetic lineage could go back as far as 60,000 years. That would make them perhaps some of the most direct and uniquely isolated descendants of the first humans to leave Africa that have ever been located. Any geneticist would give an eyetooth for a chance to look at Sentinelese DNA to better understand the history of the human race.
>>364326
You are correct
t. Tasmanian
>>364349
>>364321
Tasmanian replies after posts about incest
kek
It's not really an issue of morality, it's more of leading the horse to water.
Someone would already be all up in their business if (1) the island had anything to offer, such as gold, oil, or (2) they were amicable and didn't try to harm anyone that came near.
With neither one of these being the case, the risk greatly outweighs the benefit (because we're presuming—perhaps rightly—that contacting them would be for their benefit).
(1) Would be so advantageous nobody would give a shit about their benefit and I dare say they'd go in and slaughter them all.
(2) Can hardly be for their benefit if nobody can get near without someone dying.
So things are just naturally kept apart.
>>364304
Maybe, but even on Earth people patronizeyou and treat you like a science experiment.
>>364069
aren't those people citizens of india? don't they have rights under the constitution? isn't india essentially abrogating its responsibility to enforce law and order amongst them? don't they have an MP who is supposed to represent their interests to the indian parliament? don't they have the vote?
>>364432
Obviously the indian government has taken upon themselves to grant special conditions to these tribes unbeknownst to the tribes themselves.
Why did you even ask that though?
>>364069
>you will never plow a tribal woman
>>364442
because if i lived in a polity which (from my perspective) is basically a science fiction future, but these amazing amenities were denied to be because "hurrr-durr cultural integrity, we know what's good for you", i'd be fucking pissed off. especially if i was entitled to that shit.
i'll bet they don't feel terribly culturally rich when they're dying of things that even someone who shits in the street can reasonably expect to survive.
those people are essentially being preserved in a human zoo. they're deprived of all agency and the capacity to choose their fate. india has chosen for them.
>>364463
They're the ones who are the isolationists
>>364069
is that a spiderman
>>364069
They are all probably sexist cis males, we need to contact them to give the women feminism.
>>364463
>india has chosen for them.
They've chosen for themselves. If they put down the arrows and came to see what the rest of the world was all about, they could. Nobody is stopping them.
>>364432
I assume it's a reserve system (without the people there actually knowing about it), like exists in lots of countries.
>>364483
Some extension of this hyper PC logic will probably eventually lead to their being brought under government control.
>>364484
How are they supposed to do that, since it's the policy of the Indian government to keep them in isolation, and they don't have watercraft capable of navigating to anywhere else.
I suppose the outside world could kidnap one of them, take them on a world tour, showing them all the benefits and vices of modern society, and then return them to relay that information to the island.
>>364463
I see your point but I would say that their will is just as free as ours and if they do or don't know that is not important
I think the will is definitely what matters in this context, if they desired they could explore and join civilization.
Morally of course to most westerners them dying earlier is not something great but does that give us agency to interrupt their lives when all things considered they have chosen to remain isolated as far as we can tell.
I wonder how many people would volunteer if you gave them a one-way ticket back to the stone age: set them up on an isolated island without any outside artifacts and let them have a go at it without any interference.
Surely, if you believe Jared Diamond among others, you'd be much happier and healthier.
>>364069
I think some of these uncontacted peoples have the highest potential to evolve into a subspecies in the distant future. That is, if they aren't forced to eventually come to civilization because their land is getting destroyed, or if there is a plague going on, or any other event.
>>364520
also
>>364142
>If you ask me it's better to leave them alone. Why do we need to modernise them? They have been living like this for more than a thousand years and they aren't bothering anyone.
Try 60,000 years. And they barely are being protected, there are human safaris going on in the very tip of Southern India to see them in their native habitat.
>>364520
My girlfriend would really consider it. She wants to move to some of the shittiest areas of Africa.
Can´t wait to get some money and invite her for a trip. She buys way too much into the noble savage bullshit.
>>364520
>Surely, if you belive Jared Diamond
Wait, are there actually people on /his/ who pretend Diamond is wrong?
>>364534
>human safaris
Really? Citation required (I may sign up, to stare at them with binoculars from a boat or whatever; it's the closest we'll get to a Jurassic Park out-of-time spectacle).
>>364069
>Everyone's first reaction seems to be 'leave them alone'
Literally every thread on this topic on /pol/ and /k/ has been REMOVE NATIVE! and retarded declarations of how easy - and justified - it would be to slaughter them. No one on this forum gives a shit about anyone else, especially not these positivist fags who measure civilization by tech like they measure their 2 inch micropenis.
Tech =! Civilization level.
>>364202
>Keep in mind these people are even more sub-human than the Abbos, nothing good can come from bringing them into society.
That's pretty mean.
>>364546
Yes. Just as there are people who pretend to be Christians.
>>364244
>they look black
>Call them niggers
They're more related to Eurasians than they are to Africans.
>>364557
There are regular threads about North Sentinel Island on pol and k?
>>364348
Should someone sneak onto the island at night and steal some Senitelese hair and run as fast as they can?
>>364570
You'd think there'd be a way to do it with drones. It's surprising nobody has done it yet.
>>364543
Do you want your girlfriend getting killed? At least tell her to move to Cape Town, or Lagos (Nigerian city that has more people than Tokyo).
>>364551
It's really illegal, and there was a big scandal recently after a video showing an Indian police officer making Jarawans dance for food in front of tourists. You have to bribe the police and shit, they're supposed to be cracking down on it but they're not really.
>>364069
to answer OP, they should be left alone until they contact us. They know we're here. Obviously this is harder for the sentinelese because they're on an Island but they attacked people who came close before so it's best to leave them be.
>>364551
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/27/jarawa-tribe-andaman-islands-human-safaris-to-end
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdgDqrPAZcE
>Vice
Yeah I know, but it's a good watch.
And you don't stare at them in a boat, they drive through where they live. Think of people driving in your backyard, spying on you masturbate.
>>364546
>Wait, are there actually people on /his/ who pretend Diamond is wrong?
1/10, made me reply
>>364086
stop screaming you fucking retard
>>364520
It'd be like Cannibal Holocaust IRL for me.
>>364557
>Tech =! Civilization level.
No, civilization is generally measured by the degree of specialization in professions.
>>364562
Are they though, aren't they possibly a remnant of an earlier migration wave from africa
>>364581
When I was in a relatively remote part of Malawi (a place I had to hike up a mountain for hours to get to) in a little market I met a random white girl from the US. She had moved there with her brother; they bought a hostel/lodge up on this mountain totally sight unseen over the internet. Ended up staying there for a few days; was a cool place and they cooked great food. They seemed weirdly naive (they hadn't been there long at that point, and had never even been anywhere else in Malawi) but it looks like it's still open a couple years on: http://www.themushroomfarmmalawi.com
So it can be done.
>>364069
The most humane thing would be to contact them and gradually introduce technology.
By "technology" I mean the rudimentary stuff, such as soap, latrine ditches, and metallurgy, not iphones.
>>364589
That's on the governed Andaman Islands. I thought you meant human safaris to see the Sentenelese.
>>364605
From what we do know of their genetics, they're further from Africans than almost everyone else. A bunch of people that moved out of Africa 80,000 years ago into a tropical environment would only look African/dark skinned.
>>364621
...actually thinking about it, I'm depressed I've never had the balls to do something like this.
>>364497
Fucking read the wiki article. When people try to contact them they get bombarded with arrows. The British did kidnap two children and two elderly once. The elderly died of common diseases that they weren't resistant to. They gave gifts to the children and set them free on the island, but they disappeared in the jungle.
>>364623
The only way that's happening is if those Indian tourists had a death wish. Because the second a boat comes within a hundred meters of that island, arrows will come flying, with about 10 angry short people cursing at you in an unknown language.
>>364638
Keep out of arrow range.
Not saying it's a good idea, but if tours like that were offered I'm sure people would pay for it (to watch them from afar)
>>364621
That's actually pretty cool.
>>364622
>giving them useless shit like soap instead of dank twitter accounts
They can live in our new world or die in their old one
>>364581
She wants to go to the poor areas because she "feels overloaded by all the stuff we have here and the obsessive materialism of the people" and wants to move somewhere where "people are different, more focused on other people and life instead of things and technology".
I could actually see her moving with a stone age tribe and being quite happy by living with them for some time, but she really blinds herself to the fact that people are people and people are cunts.
The best part is that, at the same time, she also complains about not having enough money, and as soon as she gets some she spends it in some worthless shit and goes back to complaining.
So far I got her into the beauty of budgeting and it seems to be under control, and I´m guiding her in getting rid of all the worthless shit she has. I´m kinda minimalist myself, so it´s rather easy. I´m considering doing a shopping ban for some time to teach her self control and and show her that there´s no need to go to fucking Africa to live outside of the consumerist society. And if it still doesn´t work, then with the money saved I can take her there and show her first hand. Either she wants to stay and we break up because I´m not staying there more than necessary, or she wakes up. Or she wants to stay for some weeks or months every now and then, which I guess would be OK. I need my time alone anyways.
She also talks about going to a nicer area, maybe somewhere relatively modern but rural and getting a farm together. That honestly doesn´t sound all that bad, but still I´d rather move to a small Scandinavian town.
About the danger, she seems to be completely oblivious. She separates Subsaharian Africa in two areas: in war and not in war. Other than that, the people are all nice and good and in contact with nature and feelings.
I still think sometimes if it´d be better to break up sooner and get a girl with a more stable head.
>>364637
>The elderly died of common diseases that they weren't resistant to
And there lies the problem. Unless you pump them full of antibiotics, the second they get introduced to civilization, they're going to die of the common cold, or other illnesses.
>>364672
>She wants to go to the poor areas because she "feels overloaded by all the stuff we have here and the obsessive materialism of the people" and wants to move somewhere where "people are different, more focused on other people and life instead of things and technology".
Seriously? Then why doesn't she just move in the woods, into a self-sustaining community?
I can see why she wants to do that, and people have done it before, but she needs to know the pros and cons instead of romanticizing it all.
>>364645
They told me what they paid but I don't remember exactly (not much). The old guy they bought it from did an incredible job in terms of building everything out of local materials, and it being totally off the grid (had solar power, its own groundwater, etc.). But they had absolutely no idea how to fix anything when it broke (they were bringing electricians from towns two days travel away to fix simple stuff), and the old Land Rover that came with the place broke down and they had no idea how to fix it. They also can't be bringing much in considering how cheap it is (amazing value for the customer though). I'd be surprised if they break even, but it's still an amazing lifestyle they've bought into; would trade lives with them in a heartbeat.
>>364672
>in contact with nature
This couldn't possibly be further from the truth. People there are terrified of nature, since they know it can kill them, and really don't seem to see any value in it at all.
Has anyone even thought about the implications of uplifting a people\society that is not ready for the world we have lived in all our lives?
I'm sorry to be the prime directive guy here, but I don't think it's .. well, moral, to take people who are essentially cavemen and show them the advancements we have. They have a huge gap in their time line where we had rennaisance. Whatever your opinion may be on that, remember this; why is the intellectual quotient significantly higher for people of European descent (ie, rennaisance), and significantly lower for black people (no rennaisance)?
>>364702
That's the thing: They don't want to. Why should we have to force someone to do something?
>>364680
She´s also studying moving into something similar to a monastery and says she´d be doing it already if not for me and her two children.
But at the same time she thinks that´s be too repressed and that she wants life and activity, so she´d rather move somewhere where she can follow a more "normal" life.
She also likes the idea of the small communities (and in fact she also wanted to make a sort of "Happiness Center" where old people could do some work taking care of plants and keep what they get, and also take care of children from couples that have to work. There would also be plenty of coaching and seminars going on where everybody could take part. She then thought it´d be great to also make some homes for refugees and have them work the land in exchange of the house so they don´t get bored (as opposed to the government, which gives them house but forbids them for working at all). She ditched the whole thing when I managed to get in her head that housing a couple dozen people and providing for them is more expensive than what a few couples and old people can pay, because it also has to be small and familiar. Not to talk about how having refugees would keep away the children because people don´t like to leave their children with people they can´t even speak with in most of the cases.
She´s just obsessed with happiness and harmony and those who have less, and for some reason she idealizes everything about them to a dangerous degree.
As you say, the general idea isn´t all that bad and she wouldn´t be the only one doing it, but she´s got an incomplete worldview. I think it´s because she´s studying psychology and she feels like she´s ascending to a whole new level of understanding.
>>364687
Nature not in the hippy sense, but more in an esoteric way. In contact with your inner self, your feelings, your community, and not so much with technology.
She also has some streaks of midnless "sciencey bad natural good" that muddle it all.
>>364762
IF she really wanted to she would do it, no excuses.
She is either a bitch or you are making it sound that way. Maybe you are a bitch too.
>By the end of the eighteenth century, when they first came into sustained contact with outsiders, there were an estimated 7,000 Andamanese divided into five major groups, with distinct cultures, separate domains, and mutually unintelligible languages.[citation needed] In the next century they were largely wiped out by diseases, violence, and loss of territory. Today, there remain only approximately 400–450 Andamanese. One group has long been extinct, and only two of the remaining groups still maintain a steadfast independence, refusing most attempts at contact by outsiders.
Yeah great idea
>>364702
I wonder sometimes what´d happen with monkeys.
I mean, all the wild children that were found/recovered after they spent their childhood alone have proven to be mostly unable to adapt. They´re not dumb, but they´re definitely less adaptable and can never get up to date even in something as simple as eating with good manners.
There´s also (highly debated and poorly documented) experiments of taking monkeys, mainly orangutans, and teaching them to talk through simplistic symbol systems and such.
So what if we got the smartest primates and nurtured some of them as humans, without ever letting them have any contact with the mother past birth?
Some wild ones have begun making use of tools. How much could we speed up their development by integrating them?
What do we do if there´s a tribe of stone age monkeys who progress more and create some art or some simple tools of their own? If we have them attack nearby populations trying to steal stuff?
Extermination? Capture and exposition in zoos? Assimilation as work slaves? Try to force them into developing and advance so they can become a sort of lower caste within some generations?
It´d be fun to see Creationists having a meltdown, but I thing aislacionism would be the only possible option for the beginning.
>>364774
Could be too, but I think it´s just that I´m pissed off about it. It all boils down to her over romanticicing it all and still being insecure because she doesn´t really know what she wants, which is a fairly common problem in women. The difference is that she actually wants to take action one direction or the other, while most other girls are happy just with dreaming about African sunsets.
>>364702
We learned this the hard way with Africa. And North America. And South America. And the Middle East. And Asia.
Only Asia has been able to handle "modernity".
>>364800
Assimilating apes is hard because they often go violent when they become an adult.
>Indian government let these people get away with murder
Designated shitting country can't even enforce its own laws in its territory. They should attack the Sentinelese and bring anyone responsible for the murders to the mainland and to justice.
>>364800
>aislacionism
What is this?
Anyways, chimps have been raised as people. They usually end up becoming physically aggressive with their "father" and sexually aggressive with their "mother". Because as smart as they are, they are still chimps. And we are still humans. We use smell much less than they do. We will never be anything but "other" to them.
I really like the concept of the prime directive. It would have stopped a lot of blood shed throughout human history.
>>364822
>Didn't they bring civilization to Europeans?
No, Greece was in contact with Phoenicia, which lead to Rome copying Greece, which then brought civilization to Europe.
>Or are you talking about modern society?
Yes. The past ~200 years.
>>364822
Bonobos are still apes. Smaller monkeys aren't intelligent enough to be assimilated in the way you describe it.
>>364142
This
They literally are kingz n shit right now
Afrcans wish the white man would have left them in that state instead of bringing civilization
>>364142
>And they obviously want to be left alone, seeing how hostile they are.
So if we Europeans turn hostile, refugees will stop to come?
Or will it be racist because we're not a bunch of island monkeys?
Recommended reading. And [trigger warning]...
>>364884
>>364819
>aislacionism
Isolationism. I got the wrong root.
>>364888
>Jatayvon Diamond
>>364888
>Diamond
hmmm I wonder who can this be?
>>364081
Not OP, but /his/ is a humanities/anthropology board as well, asshole.
>talk about morality
>oh it's subjektibe!
>never took a philosophy course
>sad and lonely and think must needs cigarette and depression to be good poet
>everything is relative man
>I cry to sleep at night
>mother was raped at the park
>the indians are coming
>everything is relative
just a friendly reminder that civilization isn't necessarily a good thing
>>364193
Our civilization as a whole has the capacity for self-defence. Theirs does not.
Does the Indian government regularly check on the natives and shit? What if someone went in secretly with a war party, wiped out all the natives and set up his own little kingdom there? Would they find out?
>>364493
>They don't know they're being oppressed, we need to put them in reeducation camps with the other minorities
>>364952
Seriously, what would be the point of taking over this island? What attraction would it hold for an outsider?
>>364248
>Government officials and anthropologists believe that ancient knowledge of the movement of wind, sea and birds may have saved the five indigenous tribes on the Indian archipelago of Andaman and Nicobar islands from the tsunami
>"They can smell the wind. They can gauge the depth of the sea with the sound of their oars. They have a sixth sense which we don't possess," said Ashish Roy, a local environmentalist and lawyer who has called on the courts to protect the tribes by preventing their contact with the outside world
So, no actual evidence? Just muh noble savage?
This is hat happens hen you try to assimilate apes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLHCuzW3-uA
>>364961
I'd buy the "sixth sense" when it came to the ancient austronesian open-water navigators. They were fucking amazing.
But these andamese island folks don't seem to know fuck all about the sea. They walked to their islands thousands of years ago when that was possible, and haven't done anything of note since.
>>364958
>not setting up your own country with legalized polygamy and drugs, no taxes and no age of consent
>>364952
As someone already mentioned, there are regular illegal tours of the island. There are plenty of uninhabited islands for you to take over if you so wish
>>364948
It's a good thing if we establish a permanent foothold in space. Otherwise, yeah, it's not necessarily a good thing.
>>364977
Just buy/invade Sealand
>>364994
>some shitty abandoned platform in the assfuck freezing North Sea comparable to a tropical paradise
>>364079
>I WOULD NOT EVEN BE AWARE
Isn't that the point of ignorance?
Given their primitiveness, I wonder how the Andamanese survived intact in isolation to recent times. More remote islands in the Indian Ocean (Nicobar islands, Madagascar, Comoro islands...) were settled by much more advanced peoples in most recent times (capable of open-water navigation, with agriculture, and involved in long-distance trade). Surely the Austronesian's, Indians, Arabs, and mainland SE Asians have known the islands were there for a long long time. Would have been too easy for any of them to colonize them.
Can someone answer why India let these people get away with murder?
At the very least, they should've established rule of law and educate these people about India's laws, even if they decided to pardon the murderers.
>>364546
such bait
Over the years those primitives probably saw their share of boats, ships, airplanes, helicopters etc. I'd like to know how they actually interprete seeing all that shit, are they aware it's a technology of more advanced people or do they think it's some kind of demonic faggot voodoo magic?
>>365059
It's impossible for a minority to commit murder.
Murder is power + killing. As minorities lack the former, only those benefiting from institutionalised privilege (white males) can be guilty of it.
>>365059
I think its more considered war.
>>365059
>educate these people
You won't be given the chance unless you want to get shot by arrows.
>>365007
Pussy
>>364923
what the fuck am i reading?
>>365099
Poorfag detected.
>>365097
Someone should convince christfags to try it. The Lord will protect them, right?
>>365109
We'll Christianize it the same way we Christianized Europe and the New World.
>>365074
Not a direct answer to your implicit question, but you´ll probably find interesting stuff if you google "cargo cult".
>>364069
>would you want to remain in ignorance?]
you mean "remain alive, instead of dead from illnesses my community has no resistance to"?
I think I'd rather be alive.
>>365126
They could be inoculated against everything.
>>364268
Bhutan. Trad clothing is enforced, dirty hippies are kept out, tourists are limited, yet the country used a Gross Domestic Happiness figure to judge how well its Buddhist-based approach to laws and internal/external affairs is working.
But I agree it's exceptionally rare.
>>365250
Bhutan is also notorious for ethnic cleansing and forcing out minorities.
>>364157
>the Sentinal Islander's ignorance of Christ is the best thing in living on the Sentinal Islander
Lucky fellas have no problems with Christfags.
>>365075
Oh shut up, you baiting jackass.
>>364069
Why are they red
>>365811
Those are some uncontacted tribe in the Amazon. They've painted themselves for whatever reason (seems to be something all primitive people everywhere did).
>>365272
'Ethnic cleansing' is quite a stretch, but no they don't want Nepali poorfag squatters in their little Shangri-la. Can't blame them.
>>365811
Keeps the bugs off, attracts the ladies. Probably from annatto seeds.
Also, sometimes those 'uncontacted' tribes are 'previously contacted, no thanks, now fuck off' tribes. The meaning of 'tribe' can also be a little exaggerated. A few cousins and their friends and their wives decide to fuck off from Big Uncle's village because he's greedy with the monkey ribs and diddles all the ladies, so they split off and ... ta-da a NEW TRIBE. They also typically do have contact with other neighbouring groups. It's extremely rare that a group is completely isolated, as in the Sentinalese case.
>>364268
You've only ever seen colonial attempts, or attempts by missionaries who had either ulterior motives or were very strange people.
The Catholic missionaries are the only exceptions. Look up the Josephites in the Congo (can't remember which one).
Debatable are the results of Imperial Spanish missionaries. Some went all native, others went bonkers. Some were even generals while priests....
>>364083
>That seems to be quite clearly what they want.
How so?
Disregarding morality, uncontacted peoples are a very rare thing in the world, and we're going to keep as many of them around as we can because they're in short supply.
>>364069
>you will never visit isolated tribes wearing a golden power-armor ,claiming you are a god.
>>364231
>>367547
but the emperor never claimed to be a god you fuckwit
>>364246
>we need to at least give them guns
This is so silly.
>>364272
That article is so woefully undersourced. Very disappointing.
>>364432
Put this way, I couldn't see this flying in the United States, especially given our past treatment of blacks (e.g. The Three Fifths Compromise).
>>364069
Better to civilize and educate them now before some pirates go ahead and start kidnapping them for the slave trade anyway.
The only known contact of Sentilese is the kidnapping of an elderly couple that died of illness and some children who were given gifts and sent back into the forests.
For all we know those children may have spread an epidemic, we really should let them be. If its anything like the Onge they are probably dealing with infertility rates that are extremely high.
That and looking again at the Onge they are avoiding the alcoholism and cash economy that's made them loss agency.
if the reapers ever come these are the people that will continue human existence
>>365068
Fuck off.
>>364702
Really asking the Iq question?
>>367528
Aren't most of them really hostile to outside contact?
>>364762
>Has children from another man
>Shopping problems
>Is an idiot
>Wants to move away
Get a better gf.
>>364069
PICTURES OF SPIDER-MAN
>>364069
Genocide them and open luxury hotels.
Seriously, they're useless.
>>364246
Dumbest thing Ive read all week. Family planning? They are 100 people living on a tiny fucking island, they dont need family planning. The natural restrictions of the island regulates their population.
>>364520
He says neither of those things, and when he argues in favour of something, he always presents both sides of the argument unlike your terrible posts
>>364590
Great argument, how many degrees and published academic works on anthropology do you have again?
>>364157
DEUX BACK ON THE VULT, BOYS
>>370618
If they are anything like their other negrito neighbors they've been so isolated and insulated that infertility in couples is at 40%
>>365040
They got shot at in an instance
>>364246
Enjoy getting shot with a volley of arrows
The Indian government has done well by giving them red buckets and coconuts every once in awhile, every other tribal group there isnduing from alcoholism
>>368942
>For all we know those children may have spread an epidemic, we really should let them be. If its anything like the Onge they are probably dealing with infertility rates that are extremely high.
Just because of a hard life, or compounded by inbreeding?
>>365139
Probably not, vaccines are designed for people living in modern society and would probably kill a native islander
>>364069
They are not animals for us to decide their fate.
I, as an individual will talk and introduce the modern world to anyone who wants to hear about it.
>>370709
I'm not a doctor, but I don't think any common vaccines are capable of giving you the actual disease, since the virus is is inactivated. It simply triggers an immune response, which may make you feel under the weather but shouldn't kill anyone.
>>370720
...any disease you've never had (but have been immunized against) is just as novel to your body as would be any immunization they'd get in preparation for contact.
>>370703
The children could have been passive carriers of communicable diseases and or could have been in an incubation phase.
I mean given their track record part of me would be surprised if they weren't killed on the spot for being with outsiders.
Even other islander groups neighboring them have tried to speak on megaphone only to be shot at.
>>370751
Can you give a link to where people were kidnapped and taken off the island for a bit.
>>364762
>has two children that aren't yours
>is a hippie
>wants to move to Africa (presumably for Jamal and Tyrone)
I think you just need to tell her to lay off the shrooms for a bit mate
>>370760
You wont find any original sources on them but all info on the island make reference to Maurice Vidal Portman who kidnapped people in 1880 well before the common vaccines came into place before returning surviving children.
>>364124
That video was surreal.
>>364543
Pretty sure she wants to go on a solo trip to Africa for another reason, friend.
I always thought it was inhumane to not modernize them.
Sure they get to be free of the daily grind, but they have to stab people to death if they want to protect their week of labor that they carry on their back.
>>364124
That island is the one place on earth where time literally stands still.
Even the Indians/Westerners in that video look archaic in their dress/attitudes to us now, and that's only a few decades on. Those islanders would be totally incapable of telling the difference.
>>364101
>>364103
I think it would be hilarious to give them lighters or matches and watch them burn their island to the ground
Why is their hair so short? Do they cut it somehow?
If I was stuck on a tropical island I'd have hair down to my ass front and back.
>>370890
>>370893
I imagine they cut it with a knife of some sort which is why the simple bowl cut is so common. Long hair in the hot and humid jungle would be pretty fucking inconvenient I think.
I'd like to rampage through in a suit of armor with a super soaker full of LSD and fuck up their shitty religion forever.
>>370893
....nigga its called shrinkage, my hair looks less than an inch high.
When I pull it its about six and if you can make it taut you'll be able to cut it with either the lip of a clam shell or arrow blade which I've done.
>>370911
How would they make knives?
Leave them alone you modernist fucks.
>>370919
If they can make arrowheads then they at least have a proficiency with simple flint tools. Those things can get pretty sharp.
>>364069
Nah
We should study them
You know how much knowledge we got about early human tribes from studying native American tribes? This is like that only ten fold because of the age we live in
>>371041
Also, as it turns out, most of what we learned from the Native Americans was bullshit, so we really need this.
>>364268
>there is no middle ground whatsoever
if this were true then you would have to assume 2 things
1: change isn't inevitable
2: all change is bad
both are tenuous positions, logically and ethically you need some level of gradual controlled exposure to the rest of the world is best
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pintupi_Nine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korowai_people
not only utilitarian ethics but also deontological values like individual freeedom, it is arrogant to thrust modern civilization on them, it is also arrogant to think yourself highly enlightened and that they should be cut off from the rest of the world forever, my point is they ought to have a choice, a well informed choice with plenty of time to adapt to the changes brought on by these choices
>>368724
that's how you defend yourself in the real world, obviously we would not leap on the shore with a bag of guns to give them, first we would trade bags of rice for hides and communicate
>>370618
>The natural restrictions of the island regulates their population.
this involves starvation
>>370687
you establish contact by sending arrowproof robots with a webcam, an anthropologist communicates to them through it and learns their language
>>371258
>you establish contact by sending arrowproof robots with a webcam, an anthropologist communicates to them through it and learns their language
I wonder how long it would take linguists to get a grasp on their language if the island was bugged with little drones or whatever.
Could end up being the reality show to end all: the planets other 7 billion fascinated by the goings on of these couple-hundred who might as well live on another planet.
>>368942
So fucking weird. Was just reading about these fuckers on wikipedia today.
>Quite a few discarded their weapons and gestured to us to throw the fish. The women came out of the shade to watch our antics... A few men came and picked up the fish. They appeared to be gratified, but there did not seem to be much softening to their hostile attitude... They all began shouting some incomprehensible words. We shouted back and gestured to indicate that we wanted to be friends. The tension did not ease. At this moment, a strange thing happened — a woman paired off with a warrior and sat on the sand in a passionate embrace. This act was being repeated by other women, each claiming a warrior for herself, a sort of community mating, as it were. Thus did the militant group diminish. This continued for quite some time and when the tempo of this frenzied dance of desire abated, the couples retired into the shade of the jungle. However, some warriors were still on guard. We got close to the shore and threw some more fish which were immediately retrieved by a few youngsters. It was well past noon and we headed back to the ship...
>tfw no jungle uncontacted qt's to fuck in front of civilized strangers.
Why should we care about them? They clearly want nothing to do with us, so by modernizing them you're basically saying "fuck what you think you want, i know better than you"
That said we should study them covertly regardless. Seriously, just install a bunch of hidden cameras or something, fuck.
>>364081
I would argue the other way around
We should kidnap all of them and drop them in the middle of Manhattan or some shit, top kek. They'd shit their non-existent pants.
>>371314
the proceeds of the reality show would have to go to a trust in their name for them to spend when they have learned how to use it responsibly
>>364329
This. I'm surprised we haven't actually tried anything of the sort yet
>>371800
The people there would notice anything out of the usual very quickly. Even if you thought your spy bot was pretty inconspicuous, to people who've never seen anything but palm trees and sand their whole lives, anything else would stick out. They wouldn't visually tune stuff out the way we do.
>>364069
>What'r /his/'s thoughts on the morality of uncontacted peoples in the modern world?
Hilarious.
>>364255
I guess it takes one to know one
I know this is question has probably an extremely simple answer, but if one of the given answers is "people who approach get pelted with arrows and spears", why not send in a soldier in fully sealed riot gear? Particularly inventive people can make bear-proof body suits, we have materials that can withstand atmospheric re-entry, surely we can design something that even a mob of people clawing at every inch of you can't breach.
Considering making contact with usually means 50 to 80% of them die which we are well aware of but they are not, I think the morality is pretty clear.
>>372026
Until what, they give up and you can learn their language?
We don't need contact. We need to install tiny cameras everywhere to watch them and create a reality TV show out of.
>>372178
They give up and hopefully give way for an approach that does not involve stabbing things.
We don't know WHY they're so hostile. What are the changes that it might be less "we don't want contact with any of the people outside this island, leave us alone" and more "we are scared out of our wits"
Thank about that one experiment regarding monkeys and cold showers, or that one WWII japanese soldier that kept vigil over some lone island well into the 50s or 60s. What if their isolationist attitude is the result of some long-forgotten conflict, and not quite the lack of desire for any contact?
>>372209
>changes
>thank
Welp, my brain is dying, that's great.
>>364069
We should drop some soldiers on that island and shoot them to hell.
>>370728
m8 there's no nucleic acid in the virus. It can't replicate. All your body does is make an immune response to the protein shell.
>>364987
What does space has to do with it?
It would not be possible to integrate them into "modern civilization". After being isolated for tens of thousands of years, they don't have the capacity to integrate. Trying to integrate them would only bring misery to them & us. Look at what happened to the native Australians.
>>364069
So they can go and work in a factorie and feel stressed out and misserable because 12hrs of work a day lands them at the bottom of human society? So they can dream of vacations to finally go hunting, fishing and sleeping in a hamock in the beach, things they can already do on a daily basis?
The only benefit we can bring these people is medicine and i still think its not worth it.
PRIME DIRECTIVE WHEN?
>>372599
If you took one of their babies and raised them in the west they would be normal.
>>372026
That sounds hilarious. Imagine an unkillable fucker following you everywhere spouting gibberish and making strange signs, annoying you into teaching him your language.
>>372209
>We don't know WHY they're so hostile.
It's pretty obvious why. They didn't used to be so hostile. They saw what happened to other Islanders, they met foreigners, and they all died.
>>372665
And what would the point be? To add another 500 to 7 billion people living on the planet? 500 people who are culturally in no way different than the others?
We don't need them, and seeing as how they survived this far they don't need us. There's no point in meddling with these people beyond observation.
