What went wrong?
Palestinians dont exist
>>363399
>Zionist movements in Europe
>Holocaust guilt
>Jewish settlers increase
>King David Hotel bombing by Jewish terrorists
>string of attacks by Jewish terrorists (Irgun, etc) against British authorities
You get the idea
>>363399
White guilt
>>363451
But Jewish terrorists don't exist, anon :>)
Arabs are fucking idiots
But the Brits brought it all together
>>363465
This group was my favourite
>Lehi initially sought an alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, offering to fight alongside them against the British in return for the transfer of all Jews from Nazi-occupied Europe to Palestine.[2] Believing that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis.[2] During World War II it declared that it would establish a Jewish state based upon "nationalist and totalitarian principles".[2][17] After Stern's death in 1942, the new leadership of Lehi began to move it towards support for Joseph Stalin's Soviet Union.[1] In 1944 Lehi officially declared its support for National Bolshevism.[6]
>>363465
The first widespread usage of the term "terrorist" and "terrorism" with regards to the Middle East was actually used in reference to Zionist terror groups (such as Irgun, Lehi, Stern Gang, etc) as well as certain parts of the Haganah in the 1940s, who acted against local governments and European mandates at that time.
>>363399
British. Mandate.
What went wrong?
>>363503
Only the Samaritans kept God's laws pure.
>>363478
Huh. You learn something every day.
So when did the Golan Heights go to the Syrians?
>>363622
Post-Ottoman mapping, the French got it as part of their Syrian mandate
BRITAIN
R
I
T
A
I
M
>29 November 1947
>not being perfidious
>>363451
You are aware of the fact the Jewish side accepted partition while the Arab rejected it?
>>363399
>Ancient Jews commit ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Canaanites and claim Canaan as "theirs" because "muh G-d gave it to me"
>Modern day Israelis commit ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Palestinians and claim the land as theirs because "muh G-d gave it to me"
funny how history repeats itself
>>363778
>genocide
If anyone's intentions were genocidal, it was the palestinians.
>>363732
Can't be bothered to do the UK Pepe
>>363823
Its all about identity
>>363823
>nothing
The jews are fighting for a homeland where antisemistism can never become a dominant ideology. The palestinians are essentially fighting because muslim clay mustn't come under infidel control, and also jecause they've been led to believe that the jews want to destroy their mosque?
>>363865
>muh antisemitism
Why do Jews whine so much? It's really pathetic and annoying
>>363823
>le french and germans are basically just the same people so why are they fighting
>>363870
All abrahamic religions seem create whiners.
>>363879
Fucking whiney Arianists,REEE
>>363870
Taking matters into your own hands, preventing persecution with an army of your own, that's whining?
If that's whining, what would be a non-whining response to antisemitism?
>>363883
>debating /pol/io
Just let him grow out of adolescence.
>>363865
>The jews are fighting for a homeland where antisemistism can never become a dominant ideology
>>363923
But that's literally the core of the zionist ideology. It came into existence as a response to the Dreyfus affair, which led Theodor Herzl to believe that even the most enlightened place would still have the potential of antisemitic persecution, so the only safety could be found in a jewish homeland, with a jewish army.
>>363944
>Herzl
Negro please
Original modern Zionism was neither antisemitism-centric nor particularly secular. Herzl gave it a major public and organizational boost but intellectually it was Rabbi Alkalai that initiated the first serious attempt of Jewish peoplehood in Eretz Yisrael.
>>363976
From wiki
>The 1840 Damascus Affair reassured Alkalai that the Jews needed a land of their own to act as a safe haven
I'm not saying that there is any one form of zionism that construes the national project completely negatively, as a defence against antisemitism; of course they all tried to define the national identity in a positive way, be it religious or ethnic. But ultimately, not one of those identities gets to claim to be canonical, so the common denominator will alway be the necessity to ward off persecution.
>>363399
Everything?
>>363399
>Reject partition plan
>Declare war on Israel
>Lose
That's what went wrong
You'll find "Declare war on Israel and then proceed to lose" to be a recurring theme in Arab history.
>>363870
sounds like you're whining right now desu
>>363399
Jews
>>363865
>the isrealis dindu nuffin, permanent occupation is a-ok
>>363865
Palestinians essentially live under Israeli control and have little or no self-determination. Gaza is basically Mega-City One.
As for the mosque Jewish terrorists actually tried to blow it up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Underground
>>363875
Exactly true as well tho
>>364907
French and Germans being the same people? They're clearly not
>>364883
The smallness of Gaza can be exaggerated. Way more people live in the overlay of NYC.
>>363870
>>364883
Palestinians who live in the West Bank have perfectly decent living conditions and can come and go as they please (via Jordan). You know what the difference is? West Bank Pallies aren't ruled by an the Islamic Brotherhood that shoots rockets into Israel.
>>363733
>Jews get to have a country of their own
>accepts partition
>Arabs get rightful clay taken away from them when they had no part in the Holocaust
>reject partition
What a fucking shock. And you do realize that the terrorist attacks were before 1949 right?
>>364950
Decent living conditions != self-determination
Israel occupied land that was not given to them and is still not recognized as theirs.
>>364940
>muh population density
Tokyo/Mexico City would have been a better example if you're going with that argument.
>>364951
You clearly have no idea about what the partition plan and the conflict was about. Partition implies Jewish settlements get to stay under Jewish sovereignty and vice versa for Arabs (only exception was Jerusalem where there was to be some sort of intl. arrangement). The Arabs did not have anything "taken away" from them because there was never ever Arab sovereignty between the sea and the river (and without the UK propping up their pet monarch there would have never been one east of the river as well).
>>364951
And what was the Arab response Anon? Was it to go to the UN and explain their grievances? Or was it to start not one, not two, but three unprovoked wars against Israel? And to constantly shoot rockets at them/bomb shit/take their citizens hostage? Hmmm, I wonder why the Israeli's decided that occupation might be a good idea...
>>363865
>they've been led to believe that the jews want to destroy their mosque?
by whom?
>>364957
>moving the goalposts this far
Arabs in Palestine have had numerous opportunities to acquire territory and self-determination, which they rejected time and again in favor of a maximalist position. This is well-documented.
>>364966
>you live here
>we're taking the land away and giving it to a different group of people
>but it's not taking anything away somehow?
>>364967
Yes, because the UN is still clearly working hard to remove Israel from territory they occupied 50 years ago.
>>364967
>UN
>>364957
>Lose war to Israel and then subsequently be occupied by Israel
>Be shunned by other Arabs
>Get offered statehood
>Reject it then start violent riots
>Blame Israel when riots are cracked down on
Such is life as a Palestinian
>>364950
>perfectly decent living conditions
>can come and go as they please (via Jordan)
Nope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank_closures
>>364982
Try:
>you live here
>we're taking the other land away to which you have no claim and giving it to a different group of people who do have a claim to it
The UN didn't initiate a population transfer in 1947 you colossal moron, the only one that happened was during the war, on both sides.
>>364997
>2006
Might as well go back to the Middle Ages.
Besides as you can plainly see the vast majority of those are between Jewish and Arab areas, not between Arab communities.
>>364998
>the other land
>>364998
>to which you have no claim
Palestine has more of a claim to that land because at least they lived there, unlike the Israelis.
>>365016
But they DID live there, you ignorant fucks. That's the entire point about the partition plan, it divided the land between existing communities of people who were living there already. The only population transfer that happened was due to the war which the Arabs started.
>>364957
>and is still not recognized as theirs
Except it is?
>>365016
Does Germany have more of a claim than Poland to the land east of the Oder–Neisse line?
>>365036
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories
>the UN General Assembly and the UN Security Council consider East Jerusalem to be part of the West Bank and occupied by Israel
>>363399
>/his/ isn't /pol/
>half the threads are shitted up with antisemitism
>>365047
Welcome to reality
>>365047
>antizionism is antisemitism
>>365044
They sure showed them :>)
>>365032
The Jewish population of Mandatory Palestine was 11% of the total population in 1922. In 1945 it had increased to 31%. In other words it was Arab territory, and the Jews were mostly recent Zionist arrivals (and still a minority population).
>>365047
>actual discussion about the legitimacy of Israel without going into muh jews
>antisemitism
>>365044
The entire notion of the West Bank as 'occupied' territory is preposterous. Occupation implies it has been taken from someone else illegitimately, yet the former sovereign in those territories, Jordan, conceded it entirely. It's more accurate to speak about the WB as an autonomous enclave inside Israel.
>>365047
>verifiable facts are anti-semitism
responded to a troll post
>>365055
>completely ignoring how the partition worked
If the West Bank was all Israelis and Jordanians, there wouldn't be this problem right now.
>>365052
>In other words it was Arab territory
No, it was not. it was Turkish (Ottoman) territory and than it was under the British Mandate. Any other notion is simply false.
>minority population
Who received a minority of the territory. So what's the problem?
By the way Arabs in Palestine were mostly relatively new immigrants as well. Read pic related.
>>364973
Husseini had an active role in spreading this meme, you can probably trace much of the violence back to it, e.g. the Hebron massacre, which was incited by the rumor, and led to the foumdation of jewish militant groups like Irgun.
The funny part is that palestinians cling to this meme as if their life depneded on it, when it fact it gets them killed, largely because the IDF is better at killing people than they are.
>>363399
reality
>>365067
>not understanding what he means by 'Arab territory'
>being that autistic
>>364966
The Jews never planned on keeping those borders. They were willing to accept any plan, knowing that they could just take more land in the future, which is exactly what happened. Just look up Plan Dalet.
>>365060
>let's go 80%-20%
>no fuck you we want everything
>*starts war*
>*loses the 80%*
>waahhh can we go back to the 80%?
>>365067
>So what's the problem?
Maybe that they didn't receive a minority of the territory?
>>365067
>it was Turkish (Ottoman) territory and than it was under the British Mandate
>failing to differentiate between political territory and demographic territory
That book is widely considered a fabrication by the way. Finklestein (a jew himself) destroyed it in this book. Try reading a book that isn't blatant propaganda, maybe?
>>365085
>*Finkelstein
>>365047
>>365079
>The Jews never planned on keeping those borders. They were willing to accept any plan, knowing that they could just take more land in the future, which is exactly what happened. Just look up Plan Dalet.
lol
>>364841
If you have no reasonable people to negotiate with, permanent occupation is pretty luch the only thing you can do.
>>364883
Well maybe they shouldn't have voted Hamas into office, there was no way for Israel to accept this.
And need I remind you that the rumor of the jews wanting to destroy al-aqsa is much older than the plot of one jewish group to actually do it, which was prevented by the israeli government?
>>363399
>nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of non-Jewish communities in Palestine
If they aren't going recognize the charter that allowed them to become a country, why should we recognize them as one?
>>365106
Are you quoting the right post? I think you might have meant to quote the one that post was responding to.
>>365106
>Palestinian leader from the 1930's
>>365093
Well maybe Israeli terrorists shouldn't have assassinated the Israeli PM to stop the peace process.
In other words, extremists on *both* sides prevent peace, not just on the Palestinian side.
Also al-aqsa is a different mosque.
>>365085
Finkelstein did not "destroy" it because he doesn't know anything about it. He's not a historian of the region, doesn't read Arabic nor Turkish nor Hebrew, and is about as 'objective' as Edward Said.
As for the demography/politics, that's the entire point. If it's demography->sovereignty, than the PP corresponds roughly to the situation in 1947. But your line isn't that demography->sovereignty but that 'the land' was 'Arab'. Why was it Arab? Well it clearly wasn't demography because 20% was Jewish, so it has to be translatio imperii, but there was never any Arab sovereignty in the region, so it can't be that. What does it leave us with? That's right, international law, i.e. the UN, which introduced the partition plan, which the Arabs rejected. I don't see how any other logic can be applied here, honestly.
>>365093
>If you have no reasonable people to negotiate with, permanent occupation is pretty luch the only thing you can do.
Or you could, you know, stop occupying the area.
>Well maybe they shouldn't have voted Hamas into office, there was no way for Israel to accept this.
>If you're occupied by someone you should try to accommodate them
Holy shit do you read what you're writing?
>>365130
No, I think you were stupid by accident. So which post were you really trying to quote?
>>365128
>Also al-aqsa is a different mosque
It's the mosque that palestinians claim the jews want to blow up.
Also, if you really believe that Rabin's death is what prevented peace, or that Israel hasn't been ready to compromise since then, well, think again, think harder.
>>365128
Fucking this. Extremism only causes problems, no matter what side they're on.
>>365129
>Why was it Arab? Well it clearly wasn't demography because 20% was Jewish
It is crazy to assert 100% demography to have a claim. Most countries fail that. 20% of the population of Germany is not ethnically German, that doesn't mean that Germany can't be a German state and has to be partitioned by the UN along ethnic lines.
>>365128
Except that Shimon Peres, who came after Rabin, was from the same side of the political spectrum (if not more to the left). What destroyed the Oslo Process wasn't the assassination in 1995 but Camp David in 2000.
>>363399
Perfidious albion made Christians a minority in Jerusalem just so that Muslims and Jews could fight each other.
>>365093
>we don't think you're capable of governing yourselves so we're gonna permanently occupy your territory
>why are you mad at us?
>>365137
The one I actually did quote.
>>365131
>Or you could, you know, stop occupying the area
Yeah, that worked perfectly well in gaza, let's make the same mistake again, on a larger scale, why the fuck not?
>>If you're occupied by someone you should try to accommodate them
They voted Hamas into office after the Israelis left Gaza, uprooting hundreds of jewish families who had lived there for generations.
>>365129
>which the Arabs rejected
Had the Zionists not moved in, there would have been no need for a partition. Even if they did not have official sovereignty, they basically had de facto sovereignty.
>>365148
Yes, but if you're drawing borders for new countries wouldn't you want to make them as homogeneous as possible? Especially after several rounds of inter-confessional clashes in 1929, 1936 and so on. Remember, Balkanization was a thing in the 1940s as well.
>>365157
>we don't think you're capable of governing yourselves
More like
>we don't think you'll stop trying to kill us
And yeah, the only way to keep them from doing so is permanent occupation.
>>365167
>we don't think you'll stop killing us so well keep denying you franchise and occasionally killing you
>why are you mad at us?
>>365159
>The one I actually did quote
Take a look at what the post actually said then, instead of just the image. He was using that image as a way to demonstrate that the Palestinians were anti-semetic.
>>365159
They didn't even stop occupying Gaza. And if you look at how Israel builds settlements, it's little wonder they wanted them out of their territory.
>>365157
>>we don't think you're capable of governing yourselves
literally no one is saying this
>>365182
>They didn't even stop occupying Gaza. And if you look at how Israel builds settlements, it's little wonder they wanted them out of their territory.
There are currently zero Israeli citizens living in Gaza. Probably close to this number of Jews too.
>>365179
To be fair, they were mad before that. And since they're mad at the very concept of a jewish state existing anywhere in the region, there really is no point in trying to appease them.
Also, how about Jordan and Lebanon stop disenfranchising their palestinians, which are already more than live in the territories?
>>365186
Add "without attacking us" to the end of that.
>exploited Africa
>promised the Levant to everyone
>helped Japan create a modern military force before WW2
Anglos screw everything up.
>>365190
Yes, because they kicked them out. We're going in a circle here.
>>365179
If you're implying that Israel should annex the West Bank and naturalize all Palestinians living there as citizens, then it's a terrible idea only embraced by people on the Israeli far right and the European far left.
>>365182
>He was using that image as a way to demonstrate that the Palestinians were anti-semetic.
That's why I quoted the post, how dense are you?
>They didn't even stop occupying Gaza. And if you look at how Israel builds settlements, it's little wonder they wanted them out of their territory
Gaza is not occupied atm, are you denying this? And also, what's so bad about the way Israel builds settlements, the look like somewhat boring suburbs at worst.
>>365208
I'm just pointing out a basic logical inconsistency in an argument
>>365201
I wouldn't say they kicked them out exactly.
It has to do more with Israeli internal politics than anything else. Palestinians themselves (as in the Palestinian Authority) wasn't gung-ho about whole thing.
Currently there's pretty much a wall to wall consensus that it was a bad idea.
>>365164
>wouldn't you want to make them as homogeneous as possible
In theory, yes. But you make them homogenous among the lines of native inhabitants, you don't consider recent arrivals to have any serious claim. They're guests in someone else's land, not equals.
>>365201
>they kicked them out
The israelis kicked their own people out of Gaza, hoping it would bring peace.
>>365222
Fine, but the main qualm the Palestinians have (those who are not fundies anyway) is not that they're disenfranchised but that they can't have their own shit. Which is quite the opposite.
>>365232
>Are you retarded? You think the only options are to continue occupation or just completely absorb the region?
No I was only referring to his point about the Pal's being "disenfranchised".
>>365240
Yes, that's what I was talking about. Enfranchising them can also involve stopping the occupation entirely.
>>365232
>You're talking about anti-semitism in the thread.
I was replying to an image that suggested that the accusation of antisemitism was an illegitimate way of silencing palestinians, by pointing out that the accusationdoes in fact hold up,as central figures of palestinian nationalism were, and are, rabid antisemites.
>You think the only options are to continue occupation or just completely absorb the region?
I'm not that guy, but do you have a viable plan for a two-state solution?
>>365247
>I'm not that guy, but do you have a viable plan for a two-state solution?
Not the guy you're replying to, but I've never understood why a Palestinian state couldn't have Jewish settlements in it. There are like, what, a million Arabs living in Jewish Israel? So why couldn't the post-1967 Jewish settlers stay? They wouldn't even need to be Palestinian citizens. It might be more complex than that but I find it retarded that this is what's jamming the whole thing.
>>365247
Well, I was the one confused on that first point then.
>do you have a viable plan for a two-state solution?
As it is now, no. Extremists on both sides make a deal impossible. If what few moderates can come together and defeat their side's extremists, then a fair deal would have a chance.
>>365265
I agree, but think about it, the state that the 'moderate' fatah says they want wouldn't even give citizenship to the palestinian 'refugees' that live in territory controlled by the fatah at this very moment. Their goal isn't palestinian souvereignty over gaza and the west bank, it is ending israeli souvereignty.
Is it fair to say Palestine is an apartheid state? No troll, actually curious if that's a legitimate term or not.
>>365379
Palestine isn't a state currently, so no.
>>365379
The best way to describe them is an occupied territory. Apartheid requires the country to be oppressing it's own people.
>>365379
It's fair but you will immediately be accused of anti-semitism.
Also white South African's were in the right.
>>365379
Palestine, i.e. the territory controlled by the Palestinian Authority, is indeed sort of an apartheid state, as there are severe punishments for selling property to jews, and no jewish presence is considered legitimate. The Israeli mainland has no such policies, has arab member of parliament, of the supreme court, and even had an arab (druze) acting president for a short while.
But I guess what you're really asking is about the treatment of palestinians in the areas of the west bank under direct israeli control. Well, they are not treated as citizens, which they are not and do not want to be, and the security of israeli citizens is certainly given preference over theirs. So yeah, 10% of Palestinians in the West Bank live under something that might look like apartheid if you squint real hard.
>>365409
Schlomo pls
>>365409
How do you know they don't want to be citizens?
Did Israel not automatically grant them citizenship when they annexed the territory?
>>365403
Is /pol/lution familiar with the notion of cognitive dissonance?
>>365423
Cognitive dissonance requires a contradiction, which that post doesn't display.
>>365422
>How do you know they don't want to be citizens?
Because the denizens of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights have been offered citizenship, which most didn't accept.
>Did Israel not automatically grant them citizenship when they annexed the territory?
Israel hasn't annexed any part of the west bank, except east jerusalem. I'd agree that sthey should anex the areas now under their direct control (where, as I mentioned 10% of west bank palestinians live), but I don't think the PA would let that happen without throwing a major tantrum.
>>365379
The only viable use of this term is for countries where discrimination between citizens based on their race is codified into constitutional law. None of those conditions apply in the situation of Israel/Palestine.
>>365444
>Because the denizens of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights have been offered citizenship, which most didn't accept.
But not all Palestinians?
>Israel hasn't annexed any part of the west bank, except east jerusalem. I'd agree that sthey should anex the areas now under their direct control (where, as I mentioned 10% of west bank palestinians live), but I don't think the PA would let that happen without throwing a major tantrum.
Tell me what Israel does if the PA invites the Jordanian Army to deploy in the West Bank?
>>365460
>Not all of South Africa was legitimately white land, but not all of it was legitimately black land either.
None of it was uninhabited when Europeans first arrived.
>>365452
>But not all Palestinians?
No, that would only be possible if Israel had proclaimed full souvereignty over the territories, which they haven't.
>Tell me what Israel does if the PA invites the Jordanian Army to deploy in the West Bank?
What kind of weird scenario is that, Israel and Jordan have a peace treaty. Apart from that, a federation between the full PA territories and Jordan might actually be a viable option that works for everyone, except those that want to destroy israel.
>>365452
>But not all Palestinians?
If Palestinians of East Jerusalem who interact with Israelis on a daily basis did not want Israeli citizenship, what makes you think those in Ramallah and Bethlehem, which are not even nominally Israeli, will?
>Tell me what Israel does if the PA invites the Jordanian Army to deploy in the West Bank?
Defeats the Jordanian Army in six days again :^)
But seriously they are bound by agreements such as the Oslo Accords so they can't do that. Also Jordan and Israel have a series of agreements and are basically allies. Politically speaking that least thing the Hasemites would want is to stir shit in the WB again (they have a kind of Palesitinian problem themselves).
>>365460
>The Israeli constitution defines Israel as a Jewish state.
Israel does not have a formal constitution.
>>365467
Neither was America.
>>365460
>The Israeli constitution defines Israel as a Jewish state
There are plenty of constitionally arab states in the region, are they apartheid states, too?
Also, this doesn't affect the civil rights of non-jewish citizens, does it?
>>365470
>If Palestinians of East Jerusalem who interact with Israelis on a daily basis did not want Israeli citizenship, what makes you think those in Ramallah and Bethlehem, which are not even nominally Israeli, will?
>not even nominally Israel
But the IDF will prevent anyone else from going there. Is the IDF not part of Israel?
>Defeats the Jordanian Army in six days again :^)
Will Israel get to Pearl Harbor them this time?
>But seriously they are bound by agreements such as the Oslo Accords so they can't do that. Also Jordan and Israel have a series of agreements and are basically allies. Politically speaking that least thing the Hasemites would want is to stir shit in the WB again (they have a kind of Palesitinian problem themselves).
Then the problem is just that Israel blocks Palestinian statehood in the UN, yes?
Jordan would have less of a problem if they let the Palestinians return to the West Bank, yes?
>>363805
>1 dude from 60 years ago represents the Palestians
>>365490
He was the mentor of the guy in your pic, and pretty much a founding father figure to palestinian nationalism, so yeah, if anyone was ever representative of palestinians, it's him.
>>363865
>The palestinians are essentially fighting because muslim clay mustn't come under infidel control
Let me fix that for you: The Palestinians are essentially fighting because ARAB clay must not come under FOREIGN control
The Palestinian Liberation Organization has always been driven by Arab nationalism. However, they are not as popular anymore. Why? Israel and their allies realized that Wahhabism could divide the Arabs, saving their illegal state from a united force.
Also if you knew a single thing about Islam you'd find out that Jews are considered to be People of the Book, not infidels.
>>365490
>Arafat
>based
lol if he wasnt such a greedy autist he would have been the president of an independent Palestine a long time ago.
>>365489
>But the IDF will prevent anyone else from going there.
No it wouldn't. Israeli presence in Area A is virtually nonexistent. You can take a cab from Jerusalem to Ramallah for like 10 Shekel.
>Then the problem is just that Israel blocks Palestinian statehood in the UN, yes?
There are three major political issues at stake between Israel and the Palestinians: settlements, Jerusalem, and refugees (i.e. right of return). In the last round of negotiations is was the former two that screwed things up, while the first can be kinda tinkered with (through territorial swap for example). I don't think the current leadership of the PA feels so strong about those things, but at this point they became symbolic issues and it would destroy them politically if they concede them entirely.
If you ask me,I think what the PA really wants is to have some kind of semblance of negotiations so they could keep getting their development aid and donations (which make up something like 50% of the PA revenue). It's not about the objective as much as the process. The last center-left gov't in Israel gave it to them very easily, but Likkud is more hardliner and has certain political obligations vis-a-vis other members of the coalition. But in general I don't think there's a clear-cut solution either way.
>>365507
The irony is that his talks with Hitler were about sending Germany's Jews back to the Holy Land.
>>365523
>The Palestinian Liberation Organization has always been driven by Arab nationalism. However, they are not as popular anymore. Why? Israel and their allies realized that Wahhabism could divide the Arabs, saving their illegal state from a united force.
It's not as popular anymore because Hamas proceeds with the muqawamah (resistance) while Fatah is seen as a bunch of sell-outs. Fatah is still pretty strong though, they haven't gone total fundie just yet.
>>365529
I see you follow Netanyahu quite closely!
>>365523
It's actually funny how we've seen the rise of true islamist factions in the last 10-15 years. Al qaeda used to be just a group of rag tag rich kids from saudi arabia. Now with B'aathism on its' way out in syria and iraq and lmao gaddafi RIP'd. We're actually seeing radical islamism on the rise in the form of factions that will actually seize whole countries. Arab nationalism is dead.
The assads, Saddam and gaddafi all seem like corrupt technocrats at worst (at least they kept unstable people together and maintained at least a decent quality of life for the public minus some political murders) compared to the next gen middle east factions who are insane death cults.
>>365529
Yeah well, and you know what his position was on that.
>>365523
>israel is to blame for islamism
Right, next thing you'll tell me is tht Husseini and Sayyid Qtub were Zionist agnts. Political islam in the resent form exists since the 920s, and has opposed zionism since the beginning.
That it replaced Baahism as the dominant anti-zionist ideology has nothing to do with Israeli intervention, but with the fact that baathist movements and regimes have completely failed at removing the jewish state.
>>365560
To be fair, the Assads, Gaddafi, et al propped up those death cults when it suited them.
>>365570
That's true but it came from (mostly) secular political gain though not exclusively bc muh allah.
>these are the kind of people that post on /his/
>>365447
>where discrimination between citizens based on their race is codified into constitutional law
Now you're getting semanticist. Apartheid can't exist because it's not in the Constitution?
>>365649
Kinda, yes. There are a million other concepts you can use, but Apartheid is something very specific.
>>365649
>Now you're getting semanticist. Apartheid can't exist because it's not in the Constitution?
Apartheid means racial segregation by law, so, no, if it isn't in the constitution, it's not apartheit.
>>365563
>Right, next thing you'll tell me is tht Husseini and Sayyid Qtub were Zionist agnts
Their ideas were allowed to be followed en masse as a result of israel's actions and/or the actions done for israel.
>That it replaced Baahism as the dominant anti-zionist ideology has nothing to do with Israeli intervention, but with the fact that baathist movements and regimes have completely failed at removing the jewish state.
Arab Baathism didn't exactly "fail". Rather, it faced continuous opposition from larger, richer powers.
Arab Baathism is opposed to the Gulf states' monarchies, israel's actions, and exploitative foreign intervention. By being opposed to all three things, Baathism conflicts with the wants of Western powers. Therefore, there has always been a permanent smear campaign against Baathist leader by Western media. Much worse is the funding and arming of Wahhabis by the West, the Gulf states, and even israel itself in order to dismantle Arab Baathist powers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G785kB8OKcU
>>363733
Why would they accept a deal that doesn't benefit them in any way?
>>365440
>filthy Jews discriminating against Palestinians how dare they
>But South Africa did nothing wrong
Yup, no contradictions there.
>>365885
>Their ideas were allowed to be followed en masse as a result of israel's actions and/or the actions done for israel
Which means, it's neither the fault of the followers, nor of those who allowed them, but the fault of Israel?
Damn, if mental gymnastics were an olympic discipline, butthurt arabs would rake in the gold.
>Arab Baathism didn't exactly "fail". Rather, it faced continuous opposition from larger, richer powers
>it didn't fail, it just didn't win, because the others were stronger
I rest my case.
Also, Baathism is basically arab national socialism, with a similar tendency for genocide, c.f. iraqi kurdistan.
>>366064
I don't think it's actually 'national socialism' in the sense of Hitler's ideology but it's definitely influenced by fascism.
>>366241
Oh well, they certainly were more antisemitic, ethnocentric and more comfortable with the word socialism than your average fascist.
>>366265
jews are fine.
Israelis are really abrasive though.
>>366293
Sorry didn't mean to respond to you.
>>366293
Israelis are actually very diverse group of population, since they come from different countries and carry their cultural DNA. Some are incredibly Europeanized.
In recommend banning all Palestine Defense Force posters on sight.
>>365129
>Well it clearly wasn't demography because 20% was Jewish
Okay, I'm not sure if you just don't know or you're actively lying, I can never tell in these "debates", but this is totally wrong. Let's be clear for anyone not familiar with the history of the conflict that
EVERYONE JEWISH IN ISRAEL IS EITHER AN IMMIGRANT OR THE DESCENDANT OF AN IMMIGRANT WITHIN THE LAST 120 YEARS
There are no native Jewish Israelites of statistical significance. That's just the way it is. Implying that 20% of what is now Israel would be natively Jewish is insane. Anything above 4% would be suspiciously high. The historical population in the Ottoman period before zionist immigration would be around 15,000 Jewish people total. That's Icelandic suburb level size.
>>366704
The number of Jews in Palestine on the eve of the 27 November vote was 630,000, which is a bit south of 32% of the entire population of 1,970,000.
Not sure what was the purpose of your post outside of a /b/-tier b8, but there's your reply.
>>366704
The people killed in the Hebron massacre of 1929 had been living there for generations.
Also, 60% of Israeli jews are mizrahim, i.e., they are either natives, or they were ethnic cleansed from their homes in neighbouring arab states.
Why are people so autistic about Jewish motivations?
Not a Jew, but it's easy for me to understand why a group with their history would want their own land and state. Or why some Jews acted how they acted.
It seems to me anti-Semitism is simply lack of education, especially in history.
You know one of funniest points in history? Sykes (the guy who divided ME), was actually anti-Semitic, so in his belief that Jews were highly influential schemers who control everything, he decided to back Zionism hoping Jews will all support Entente.
>>363473
>Believing that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain
>>365563
Islamism is probably connected with wahhabism which has been a thing for centuries and was in no way started by Zionist Israelis jews whatever
>>366896
how many of those are settlers in the west bank though?
>>367182
>wahabism
>a thing for centuries
Yeah, Wahab was around like 200 years ago but the political power of Wahabism wasn't realized until Saudi Arabian oil wealth became a thing in the last century
