What was Africa like prior to colonialism? It probably wasn't as bad as it is now, but was it comparable to any Middle eastern states at the time?
>>360183
People in the early stages of civilisation, some people still in the tribal stage.
>>360033
Not as bad as it is now? Africa isn't some hellscape. It's a hell of a lot better than it used to be, as is every other location on the planet.
Chillin and huntin some gnus
Living the Rousseauan dream
>It probably wasn't as bad as it is now
Honestly, who's to say? It was widely regarded as the most backwards, dangerous, "dark" continent, in both European and Arab literature and accounts.
There is nothing to say that we aren't simply witnessing the continuous tribal history of old Africa today, now with guns and more people
>>360033
it was mostly feudal
>>360226
>dangerous, "dark" continent
Only to effeminate "civilised" people
Natives didn't give no fucks
>>360237
about being cannibalized and enslaved?
>>360214
>Not as bad as it is now? Africa isn't some hellscape.
>covered in jungle
>monsters everywhere
Sounds pretty hellscape. I'm gonna go with it being a lot better back then since it was so sparsely populated. Prairie life must have been pretty nice desu
>>360226
That's just how people react to something that's completely new and alien to them.
>>360278
that's a way to phrase it, sure
>>360257
You are an idiot. Penicillin alone makes life today much better than it has ever been.
>>360257
>Prairie life must have been pretty nice desu
Until you realize it's teeming with large predators able to take down giant wildebeests that would find you a tasty meal.
>>360330
>warfare and conflict didn't exist in Africa before colonization
>>360330
>human history was better when there were no humans
I want misanthropes to go and stay go.
>>360346
>i can't read
It was sparsely populated compared to today. More people causing more interactions with more violent technology. It's okay though, you have penicilin to make sure you don't get gangrene from your hand being cut off. Maybe a free teddy bear from a charity will cheer you up from being forced to rape a family member
What are you even trying to say, you don't think colonization was that bad? It was worth it because of penicilin 75 years later?
>>360375
Outside of places like the Belgian Congo, no, colonization really wasn't bad at all.
>>360375
You have this fucked up reasoning that scales the negative aspects of humanity with population but not the positive aspects.
>>360375
colonization wasn't all that bad
the African states who gained their freedom could have used the existing new infrastructure and technology to accelerate forward into modernity, like Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau, etc.
instead they tore everything apart and played soldier for decades
>>360379
Colonization was bad. Modern technology being present in Africa has very little to do with colonization. Africans have been trading for European tech since the triangle trade. Colonization was purely exploitative.
>>360396
If that were true they would have had a stake in the developing global economy and trade of the time and would have their own respectable measures of military strength and projection
but it isn't, and European expeditionary forces waltzed in on a bunch of bone-sucking tribes with ease
>>360396
It introduced rule of law for one.
>>360371
I'm not a misanthrope for knowing that humans cause warfare
>>360387
What makes up for famine and warfare? As you lay dying, you think about how great it was to have siphoned oil from a broken down fuel truck? How great those fresh nikes felt when you first put them on?
>>360392
well that's my point, I think most places in Africa were probably better before
>>360404
They had rule of law. Who do you think was rounding up slaves for Europeans? There were kingdoms before Europeans arrived that exploited European technology to become stronger. It didn't work out for them in the end though because when Europeans stopped buying slaves the kingdoms didn't have an advantage over other peoples and collapsed, leaving the entire continent open for Europeans to sweep in and bust their shit up.
>>360422
how is that your "point". It has nothing to do with the assertion you made.
>>360432
>despotism = rule of law
You have no idea what rule of law means.
>>360422
>What makes up for famine and warfare? As you lay dying, you think about how great it was to have siphoned oil from a broken down fuel truck? How great those fresh nikes felt when you first put them on?
God you are an idiot. You are doing exactly what I just said you were doing and you don't even realize it. Why is war and famine bad? Because it kills humans! That means you assign value to humans, but then you go full retard by saying the solution to war and famine is to get rid of the humans! You are in essence arguing that because a car broke down a few times the only solution would have been to never make the car in the first place.
>>360439
How does it not? Do you think a teddy bear will cheer you up from the kind of violence places like South Sudan and Eritrea have seen?
No amount of technology or anything can make up for that and a lot of the reason for it occurring is because of outside influences like money and because there's 1 billion people on the continent today instead of 90 million.
>>360441
Rule of law isn't all or nothing. It's a spectrum. European nations weren't utterly dictated by rule of law and African kingdoms had laws that superseded the desires of most individuals. And Africa sure as hell didn't need a century of exploitation to westernize. It was never the intent of Europeans to create stable governments in Africa. The rule of law present in Africa today is due to Africans like everyone else on Earth had the good sense to recognize that following the western model of governance was the best course of action.
You are acting like Africa wouldn't have had any contact with the outside world if Europe hadn't conquered damn near the entire continent.
>>360486
Honestly, Africa is a qt land, white people are qt people, so it should belong to them, not to the black fuggos.
>>360453
I didn't say anything about getting rid of anyone. I said that war and famine cause an unmerciful and brutal end to your life, and it's probably much more likely today or during colonization than it was prior to colonization.
If you're one of the people born into those wars, no amount of enjoying your car analogy is going to make up for it. Your life is going to be miserable and probably short. That's not your car breaking down, that's you being tortured or watching your family be murdered. You can't just pull over and grab the tools out of the trunk.
I'm not a misanthrope for recognizing violence, and I never said anything like what you're trying to say.
>>360257
>covered in jungle
>monsters everywhere
You just described australia exactly
>>360517
>Australian jungle
Aside from the Northern territory it's more like a desert.
>>360516
>Dying in a certain way is very bad and it probably would have been better if that person had never lived at all.
The person dying probably would have disagreed with you.
>>360517
Straya is what happens when someone went to god and said "Africa is cool and all, but not poisonous enough. What else do you have?"
>>360493
Africa and white people are cute?
>>360033
>It probably wasn't as bad as it is now, but was it comparable to any Middle eastern states at the time?
Please be underage.
>>360539
More like a hellscape.
>>360469
What kind of kid-tier logic is this?
>>360565
Yeppers.
This went off topic quickly.
>>360559
How could they have lived if the time they were born hadn't happened yet? We're discussing the past and the present. Only actual people that actually lived.
Are you trying to create a hypothetical pre-colonization Africa with 1 billion people on it?
>>360570
This board is full of fucking retards.
>>360469
>Malthusian retard
I'm not even surprised.
>>360604
>when I read someone talking about africa I think he is talking about everywhere
It has nothing to do with Malthus as should be obvious with me being perfectly happy living today not in Africa.
Human conflict is driven by the amount of human interaction. Africa's population has increased 10x in the last 200 years while its societies and governments have mostly been interfered with negatively.
>>360593
The fuck are you smoking?
>tfw your dad is black Zambian and your mom is white/English Zambian and you are "white passing"/just look white
I live in Canada and nobody believes my parents are from Africa.
My sister looks visibly "mulatto" or whatever. She looks like a light skinned black girl with curly hair and I just look like a white guy with a wide nose and full lips.
I don't fit in with Africans and I don't really feel "white". People in Zambia would probably think I'm foreign. Fuck colonialism for my identity issues, man.
>>360639
>interfered with
aww poor wittle african governments need a safe space from the rest of the mean old world
>>360787
The Cold War was a fucked up time back then.
>>360787
BIAFRA, MOTHERFUCKER
NEVER FORGET
>>360792
And I really mean fucked up.
>>360787
I'm sorry I used your trigger words
>>360780
Some biracial kids look white, others look black.
>>360780
I bet you don't look white.
>>360802
>>360183
>kingdom of ghana is nowhere near the present-day ghana
for what purpose
>>360033
>It probably wasn't as bad as it is now
It really was
Instead of nigs killing each others with Western-built guns in Western-built cities, you had nigs killing each others with spears in mudhut villages
>>361362
You could say the same for most civilizations for a while.
>>361362
Just like everywhere else at the time.
I don't know how Blacks doing shit everyone else was doing at the time shocks you.
>>361082
I do. Pale skin, straight brown hair, blue eyes. I have full lips and a wide nose but I look like a white person. My sister looks visibly half black though.
>>361082
I look white in the same way Wentworth Miller does. People say "Oh, I can kinda see it" when I say I'm half black but wouldn't likely guess otherwise. I don't have Miller's nigger hair though. But I have the same sort of look overall. My sister looks like a light skinned african-american or something
>>361335
Ghana at its greatest extent touched on the modern country's northern borders, I think. In any case the name was chosen to try and build up a national identity and history.
>>361623
>Nigger
you are something
>>361659
I-is this the first time you've heard a black guy say nigger? Because if so, I've got some bad news for you
>>361683
This is 4chan, it's probably the first time he's ever talked to a black guy
>>361683
No, but your not black
>>361688
I am black what the fuck
Mixed company bruh, don't say that around white folks in real life or black people who don't know you're half.
>>361693
>mixed
>black
What?
>>361700
I'm not the same guy
>>361692
My father is a black African. Inheriting my mothers looks doesn't make me white. My sister is black, my father is black, I'm half black. Why should I have to identify as white? I definitely don't go around calling myself black but I dont call myself white either. I'd probably just say I'm Zambian
>>361725
Oh my god
>>361725
Still not black
>>360396
Yeah I heard they had spaceships and shit before the evil white man can and ruined it
>>361727
What? Do you think race is purely about skin tone? Is an albino Somali a white person? Are KEy and Peele black to you or not? I'm probably more African than Beyonce.
>>361741
What does it mean to be black to you? 100% subsaharan ancestry?
>>361744
You're not black
>>361751
Well, I'm not really. I'm mixed. But I don't feel white or black. That was the point of my original post.
>>361759
ok
You didn't know anon, we are only black when it suits them. When we do nothing or do something perceived as bad.
No one would call a Somali anything other than black unless they were a wealthy nation in which case they'd be Arabs.
>>361764
He is not black because he is half white
>>361766
Are u a somali?
>>361764
I just take offence to people who suggest I should identify with one part of my ancestry just because I look more like that one part. I'm not arguing that I'm black so much as I'm saying that I don't consider myself white and I don't want people forcing an identity on me. Race IS a social construct. But it floors me that someone can say my sister is black and I'm white. We have the same parents. We're both mixed.
Idk, mixed race identity issues, man
>>361768
That excludes pretty much every single African american then. Most of them are highly mixed.
>>361795
>African american then. Most of them are highly mixed.
And that is not true
>>361805
I think the west gained an interest in Ethiopia because of Haile Selassie and shit
>>361810
Are you serious? Black Americans have a TON of white ancestry.
>>361805
Who is talking about Eritrea or Ethiopia? East Africans leave the thread
>>361810
Genetic studies have proven the average self-identified african-american is almost 1/4th white
>>360033
>What was Africa like prior to colonialism?
It was incredibly diverse. You're talking about an absolutely huge continent noted for it's ability to maintain regional isolation.
>>361805
It was one of the ancient great civilizations like Greece and Persia. There's a certain mysticism to it.
>>361821
Maybe, but having 13% or 20% white ancestry is not the same thing as having one white parent and one black parent
>>361831
Half black people in America are always identified as black. Even though the black parent probably even has some white ancestry. Your ancestors probably haven't set foot in Africa since the 1600's. My parents were born in Zambia. MY father is a Bemba man from Lusaka and what, I'm supposed to listen to a Afro-American about what it means to be "really black"
>>361852
>Even though the black parent probably even has some white ancestry.
And? What are you complaining about?
>>361810
http://www.cell.com/ajhg/abstract/S0002-9297(14)00476-5
>>361859
Why would a half black man in America be black and yet you say I can't be black "because I have a white parent"?
>>361884
Because having some white ancestry and having a white parent is not the same thing?
>>361899
Are you illiterate?
>>361912
A half black person in America is not black
>>361918
Obama is black
Right? Everyone thinks of him as black.
>>361918
You're an idiot
>>360226
we waz kingz
>>361923
I;m literally as black as Obama. I just look whiter
>>360237
Someone needs some colonialism.
>>361918
lol what?
>>361923
He identifies as black, but he is not black
>>361939
This guy.
Whatever. I'm African. I'm eligible for Zambian citizenship. My White mother is African too btw so fuck you
>>361967
I don't fucking care if your father is from Africa you have a white mother you are fucking mixed and not black now fuck off.
>>361982
And what does your white mother being from Africa have to do with anything?Is she black because she is from Africa?
>>361630
From what I read a Dr. Joseph, something, chose the name because he didn't like the colonial name of The Gold Coast
>>361982
I know have a half Sardinian/Norwegian friend who's lived in both his entire life and he calls himself Norwegian.
He knows how to speak Sardinian and he has Italian citizenship but he just likes Norway better not that he hates Sardinia but he just meshes better with Norway and he established his livelihood in Norway since he couldn't find a job in Italy and he's soon to marry his finacee who is Norwegian as well.
>>361824
Fuck it's this /int/ autist.
>>362047
>Fuck it's this /int/ autist.
Who the fuck are you?
>>362047
>Norwegian.
That's nice but Norwegian is not a race now go away
>>360396
That is just willfully ignorant, Africa had not reached the sophistication of even dark ages Europe by the time modern Europe made contact. Large parts of Africa were inhabited by primitive hunter gatherers, there is no way in hell they would have independently invented modern industry and reached modern levels of organisation by themselves, at least not for hundreds and hundreds of years.
Even by the 1400's the majority of Africa were pastoralists, fishers or farmers, there was no place in the continent were hunters did not interact with them on a regular basis.
All three groups went beyond the band level of organizing and they all had access to metallurgists.
Let it go, this is fact.
>>360033
They were a lot like the Germanic and Celtic people in the iron age
>>362471
>Large parts of Africa were inhabited by primitive hunter gatherers
There were precisely two hunter-gatherer populations in Africa, the Twa and the San.
That's literally it. In a country of thousands of different ethnic groups there were two hunter-gatherer populations.
>>363076
1 actually used to be farmers.
>>362560
wow, a tenth of the continent managed to reach the bronze age!
>>360583
Dumb idiot
I swear to god niggers should be banned from history. These threads are getting obnoxious
>>362471
>dark ages
Both the various Twa and San are caste systems rather than distinct races.
Twa is a very broad term, genetically thebtwo main branches diverged long ago. to this day we have absolutely no clue their origins or their length of interaction with Bantu and Sudanic peoples, regardless we can say that they were distinct genetically and to some extent still are but also that they were not in fact ever native to the forests year round.
Food is hard to find in there save for once every few years mbau have bumper crops, even then since we aren't even sure if pygmy populations had bows, nets or spears before Bantu expansion we can only assume the they were a periphery mosaic woodlands population who practiced horticulture because to this day they intentional replant the yams they harvest for the next year and Aka in the republic of Congo relied on it heavily in woodlands.
They always traded labour for bananas and thus we can say they are in fact agriculturists but merely that they prefer to be Hunters.
San and Khoi interplay with one another, the khoi while having genetics from the stone bowl culture of Hadza like pastoralists and do indeed have some rare markers. But this alone discounts the complexity of Khoisan genetics. Regardless if say a band lost cattle, sheep and goats to a drought they'd become San. If a San herded for wealthy khoi with much livestock they'd be given a young animal or two and slowly they amassed a herd of their own becoming khoi.
There were other groups; like the Weyto of Lake Tana and Okiek of Kenya but the former were well regarded boat makers and hippo hunters that are from farmers for papyrus boats whereas the latter were well regarded apiculturalists who literally owned land for bees and were hunters as well.
It's incorrect to assume the hunters of Africa were somehow isolated, its incorrect. They always interacted with other groups and were extensions of agricultural and pastoralist economic and subsistence systems
