How can islam spread to southeast asia?
why they're not as violent as the ones in ME?
>>359709
Merchants and missionaries their influence in the courts and ports of the Indian Ocean trade lanes.
>>359709
It's not Muslims that are the problem. It's arabs. The desert genetically fried their brains.
They are also far removed from the Shia/Sunni pissing contest, Israel, and the oil fields controlled by the House of Saud.
Nuking the Middle East until it could not be inhabited for a few decades, would actually be a good thing for islam.
>>359727
One of the country's prince or king got converted by local trade merchant's view. He made it a muslim country.
>not violents
muslims malays are taliban-tier
>>359709
The whole fucked up Middle East situation right now is mainly due to the pissing contest between Iran and Saudi Arabia (which is due to a number of factors - with oil markets and the Sunni/Shia rivalry being chief among them) and the proxy wars it has created in other nations like Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan, etc.
And also the presence of Israel, and everything that comes with that.
>not violent
There's no need because they're benefiting from non-islamic region not attacking them outright. The reverse can't be said, if a buddhist/hindu/christian/jew nation was surrounded by muslim states, the situation would be similar to Israel.
Islam already spread to SEA.
Through political, colonizing, and invasions. But primarily through political power.
The majority of these muslims are asians not arabs. They're smart enough to know jihad and all that shit its bad but they're unfortunately not smart enough to know how retarded their religion.
>>359778
Vietnam and champs also thais and malays are always at war with each other.
singapore (buddhist) and bali (hindus) are literally surrounded by muslims, so no.
>>359709
They've been pirates and sea raiders for most of their history. They were pretty violent.
>>359709
>why they're not as violent as the ones in ME?
but they are
>>359949
>>359982
They were doing that prior Islam.
People there are like Little Brown Asian Vikings.
In fact if anything, Islam lessened the wars among Southeast Asian Muslims because they now had an organizational framework beyond the clan level. Directing their raids to the Pagan-Animists instead.
>>360038
indonesian and malaysian pirates aren't only dangerous and violent muslims in that area (thou there still are more pirates in strait of malacca than fuckin somalia), conflict between muslim moro insurgents and philippinian goverment has caused death of over 100 000 people to this day. they're just as shitty there than in middle east, western countries just cares about them because they are literally other side of the world and they don't have any oil or something.
>>360038
>>359949
>>359709
most SEA muslims are srivijaya remnants, indochina tier hindu buddhist kingdom. pirates only settled around jungles and uncontrolled areas.
overall they have the same amount of war before and after islam.
>>360173
Much of Insular Southeast is "uncontrolled." The Sri-Vijaya was a thalassocracy over multiple tribal peoples.
>>360121
The Philippine insurrection is based on Nationalist causes rather than Sectarian. The Moros of the South were not part of the Philippines -that is, understood as the Spanish/American/Local mix-up culture- as they were never conquered by Spain. During their independence from the USA, they tried going their separate way but Flips dont want them to. Then the Marcos Dictatorship of the Philippines murdered a bunch of them and triggered the civil war.
Allahu Akbar style suicide bombings aren't present in the fighting in the Philippines, for example.
>>360121
this malaca pirate meme. they're just pissed at portuguese settlers, dude.
somehow SEA muslims countries are more civilised and successful than SEA catholic Philippine. why?
>>360251
Everything Spain touches turns to shit.
>>360264
Except Philipines is shit precisely because Spain didn't touch it at all for centuries. They just sent some crazy enough missionaries and some soldiers to make sure that the ships from China could stop and resupply in Manila.
>>360227
srivijaya is malay sumatera based kingdom, subdued tribes pay tribute under devaraja tributary system. the rule wasn't shared between tribes.
basc
>>360285
how shit can you be you have to be touched by spain to be less shit?
>>359778
come to think of Phillipines have like 90 million catholics and they live just next to a muslim island and west of it is a bunch of Buddhist countries.
Southeast Asians seems to adopt anything because they're living in a crossway between great civilizations.What people forgot is that human are shitty isn't because of religion but genetics and luck
>>360359
Being the Philipines. Or the Americas t.b.h., aztecs and incas were shit and only defended by SJW.
>>359737
>It's not Muslims that are the problem. It's arabs.
That's not how you spell Sykes-Picot.
>>360251
>somehow SEA muslims countries are more civilised and successful than SEA catholic Philippine. why?
Because the Philippines were the scene of massive foreign interventions throughout history. Indonesia was also shit for a few decades after independence. Singapore and Malaysia also had a few deadly race riots with hundreds killed in each.
>>360251
The philipines were the shitty backyard of the region even before converting to catholicism.
>>360437
>when arabs kill each other, it's not the arabs' fault
That's super racist, anon.
>>360285
>Except Philipines is shit precisely because Spain didn't touch it at all for centuries.
Spain fully colonized the place by the 1800's. Like most of Southeast Asia with other European powers.
Ergo, everything Spain touches turns into a backward, catholic backwater.
>>360484
>creating boundaries without giving attention to who will be in those boundaries
>creating a country with Sunnis, Shias, and Kurds all placed together
>expecting them not to try to kill each other
>>360526
So what should have been done?
>>360532
Not him, but just let the Arabs do what they please.
If they want to form countries, then let them. If they want to continue being desert nomads, then let them. There was no need for Europeans to create nations for them.
>>360437
SykesPicots didn't screw over Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the UAE, Oman or Yemen. Yet all of these places had civil wars, religious radicalism and communist or guerilla insurgencies. How can you blame SP for Egypt being the birth place of modern day jihadism. Or Saudi Arabia for its unequivocal support of Wahabism or the violent conflicts in Yemen?
>>360532
Probably not turn the majority of the Arab Middle East into British/French client states or imperial territory.
>>360549
The Europeans left. The Arabs could have done whatever they wanted after that.
The border between North and South Korea is totally arbitrary. Didn't stop South Korea from become a developed stable place (hence, it doesn't explain NK either)
The border between the US and Canada is arbitrary / doesn't follow ethnic lines. But those countries are as wealthy and stable as they come. Similarly the borders in Latin America are equally arbitrary and those places are all shitholes.
I don't think borders matter at all.
>>360569
>The Europeans left the place with fixed nations states with people maintaining such artificial nation states vested interests
>>360551
>Egypt being the birth place of modern day jihadism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirate_of_Diriyah
Algeria was a French colony (which descended into violence not too long afterwards). Egypt had Nasser and his Baathist allies. The Gulf States had oil to offer so of course they didn't get the bad end.
>>360532
Let the Arabs rule themselves.
Plain and simple. That's all they wanted, after all.
>>360569
But the Europeans didn't leave. They retained control of Egypt for example via the monarchy until 1952 and they didn't leave completely until they were kicked out after the Suez Canal was nationalized in 1956. In Iraq that the same case until the Royal Family was couped and killed off in 1958. And there was still an Imperial Presence in the Trucial States until the beginning of the 70s.
>>360594
Koreans are a single nation and they were only cut in half. USA and Canada are not nation states anyway and the borders were drawn when hardly anyone lived in the adjancent areas
>>360629
1) The Qutbist ideology which gave birth to the first wave of jihadism and later Al Qaida and ISIS came from Egypt.
2) Algerian Civil War was in the 90s. The French had left in 62.
3) Saudi Arabia exported Wahabism.
And the conflicts in current day Yemen had nothing to do with Sykes Picot.
>>360629
>guy says modern day
>post something from a time where people lined up and shit each other with muskets as a counterpoint
>>360637
So once the Europeans left the last few patches things should have gotten better, right?
p.s. next he'll be telling us that the mere existence of Israel makes it impossible for +350 million arabs spread out from Morocco to Iraq to improve themselves. If Israel disappeared tomorrow they'd just find another excuse...
>Indonesia
>Malaysia
>Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines
>not violent
Are you shitting me
>>360663
I'm aware of Saudi Arabia's Wahhabism. The Emirate of Diriyah was created when ibn Saud made a pact with Wahhab.
As for Algeria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_War
Yemen's modern day conflict is a result of the rise of Wahhabism (the West helped Saudis do this in order to wipe out Arab Nationalism) and the ever entrenching, bloody hands of the Saudis.
Qutb, though somewhat influential, was continuously undermined by the Egyptian government.
>>360668
Diriyah was the first Saudi state dude.
The Saudis supported Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab's beliefs, and continue to spread his beliefs today by funding Wahhabi groups and building mosques to spread Wahhabism to refugees in Europe.
>>359770
Holy fuck this.
>>360685
That's the biggest goalpost shitfting I've ever witnessed on the entire internet.
>>360671
ISIS is result of the destabilization of Iraq and Syria by the the West and Gulf states.
>>360705
a) Qutb's ideology is the ideology of Al Qaida and ISIS. Trying to deny that is ridiculous. Many of the top leaders for AQ had personal connections to him. Ayman Zawahiri's uncle was his lawyer for example. And of course Bin Laden had one of his brothers as his teachers in his university days. It was the ideology of many of the Jihadists that turned against secular Arab nationalism which had itself become brutal and authoritarian. And of course Egypt had the terrible sense of exiling many of their religious intellectual radicals after the assassination of Sadat.
b) What does SP have to do with Algeria? Algeria was part of France even before that.
d) I'm not just talking abut the current day Yemeni Civil War. I'm talking about ALL the Yemeni Wars that have occurred in the late 20th and early 21st century. And they have nothing to do with Sykes Picot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemeni_Civil_War
>>360727
Is the West also responsible for Boko Haram? For the Janjaweed? Al Shabaab?
Whether the West is involved in a place or not is coincidental. Whether there are muslims there is terror.
>>360738
*Whether = Wherever
>>360738
Well the West does buy oil from Saudi Arabia and ensures their protection. As a result, the Saudis have plenty of weapons and finances to spread their Wahhabi beliefs without consequence.
>>360716
what does this have to do with sykes picot? are you saying if muhammed ali's armies hadn't captured those two idiots and the Ottomans executed them, the current state wouldn't have existed? The current day state exists because of a)oil and b) Abdulaziz being a clever intelligent motherfucker. Even if there was no British, Hussein would have gotten his ass kicked.
>>360722
>Lel, Southeast Asian muslims are violent shits
>Cites two countries with no internal problems
>Cites one country whose internal problem is nationalistic rather than fueled by Islamic Extremism.
And again, nobody cares about bombed Australians. Besides its Ayrabs who are killing them nowadays.
>>360733
Never denied it Qutb's influence. I'm just saying Qutb doesn't represent the whole of Egypt. It should also be noted that Saudi Wahhabism is much more influential among Jihadis, since the Saudis are the ones funding and arming them. And Arab Nationalism's "brutality" is exactly what prevented Wahhabis from taking power.
You brought up Algeria:>>360551
The first civil war for Yemen was a coup where another monarchy took power. Things got serious in the North Yemen Civil War. That's when Arab Nationalists ousted a monarchy that was supplied by the Saudis and the West.
This split Yemen, but Yemen was reunited later. However, the Saudis began sticking their dick in things again. Iran is a power now though, so they extended the Syria proxy to Yemen by empowering the Yemeni Shias.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Yemen_Civil_War
I always hear Turkey cited as the example of a muslim-majority country that's succeeded, but Malaysia might be a better example.
>>360227
moros are ethnically and culturally different from philippines, plus historical grudge. they're gonna rebel anyway even if they're not muslim.
>>360760
Saudi Arabia's military is only place to make sure shit doesn't happen if their support of terrorists backfires (kinda like what happened with the Grand Mosque seizure).
This is why Saudi Arabia needed the French to help them take back their holy sit, and why Saudi Arabia is repeatedly getting their ass kicked by Houthis in Yemen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mosque_seizure
>>360793
surprising that the economy has done so well in a country where e.g. being an atheist is a capital crime,
>>360803
From what I've read the Saudi military is just a big kickback scheme. They pitifully incapable of actual fighting on purpose: so they don't pose a threat to the regime.
>>360788
> Qutb doesn't represent the whole of Egypt
And Marx doesn't represent the whole of German speaking states. What it did was create an ideological framework and discourse to attack and criticize the secular nationalist regime as well as provide an alternative. The ideology for example of Islamic Jihad, Sadat's assassins were based on an extension of Qutb's ideology. The same for many of these other fundamentalist radical groups that existed in Egypt during the 70s after the failure of 67. The same for Al Qaida, they just turned it around and saw America as the real backer of the secular authoritarian nationalist regimes. This was a result of Zawahiri and Bin Laden's partner.
I am aware of most of these other things. None of these things were due to Sykes Picot (SP) is my point.
>>359770
Yep
>>360831
>Their best feats were done through middle men or PMCs and mercenaries like what they are doing now in Yemen.
Aren't these the same Yemenese who just took over a town in Saudi Arabia?
>>360826
I was using Sykes-Picot as an example of intervention.
My point is western intervention (primarily installing and supporting the House of Saud) is what has made the Middle East what it is today.
>>360770
>violence is not violence as long as nobody cares about the victims
Leave it to an ASEAN retard to come up with logic like this
>>360918
No he is just saying that Aussie lives are about as worthless as Abos (which is true).
>>360937
One Aussie life is worth more than all the Asians put together.
>>360941
You guys just whine a lot when a single one of you gets killed. Gives the notion of "value."
So much for Australian "Banter."
>>360949
I'm American.
>>360956
>Yanks
Even worse whiners desu.
>>360964
Whatever 3rd worlder.
>>360285
Dude the Philippines where practically considered a Spaniard province.
As a Latino I can find more in common with a Flip than with an anglo
>>360594
>Ethnic lines
>Cadana
>gringoland
>different ethnic groups
>>359709
>why they're not as violent as the ones in ME?
Because they have stable republican governments not ruled by military (Egypt) or religious crackpots (Saudi Arabia). For example why are India's muslims less crazy than Pakistan's?
>>360809
Because mostly of the oppressed Chinese minority, who are the equivalent of the jews of Southeast Asia.
>>359709
Based Wirathu will turn back the Mohammedan tide.
>>360793
Malaysia is a confederation of sultanates where muslims are governed by sharia law and, like the other anon said, you cannot be atheist.
I mean, it's not hell or even the KSA, but Turkey isn't cited as a succesful muslim-majority country just because they're more rich.
>>360990
No, they were fucking not. Of course you can find more in common with a Flip, what does it even have to do with anything? We treated you guys like absolute shit too.
>>360359
>how shit can you be you have to be touched by spain to be less shit?
chill dude
>>359709
>How can islam spread to southeast asia?
the middle east isn't very resource rich (at least not the sorts of resources that were in demand during the age of the caliphates).
arabs had to rely upon being traders in order to fund the construction of their empires. They were in a good position to do so as well.
europeans were incentivized to find maritime passages to meet their trade demands more cost-effectively.
until they did, arabs dominated overland trade between Asia and Europe because Russia was mostly unsettled so it bad climate and openness to nomadic bandits did not prefer a Northern land route.
Anyway, Arabs brought their religion with them when they traded.
Because Islam is a proselytizing faith, their customers were encouraged to convert in order to gain preference in business negotiations.
>why they're not as violent as the ones in ME?
because the middle east has always been violent; I'm not saying it's caused by genes or something but they were violent before, so its while it's true indigenous religious teachings emulated some of that attitude, moreover that violentness was now just expressed through the vehicle of Islam.
>>361439
>it bad climate and openness to nomadic bandits did not prefer a Northern land route.
derp
*its bad climate and openness to nomadic bandits made caravans not prefer the northern land route.
>>360956
Not him but you have to understand the Aussies are descents of the Irish and their offspring, the scouser.
Now im sure yanks like yourself understand the problems with the Irish but incase you arent aware let me tell you of the scouser. The Scouser is a character which lurks the valley of Despair (Liverpool) and uses the occupation of a thief as they main source of income and also uses the pleasures of dissapointing football and the violence that comes with that to express emotion, imagine a white man with the soul of a negro.
Because the Aussie is an inheritor of these genes and some even having aboriginal genes, the Aussie life is worth less on the stock market than your average Caucasian life to the point where it may as well be considered a free good, economically speaking.
>>361439
Arabs reached Southeast Asia via sea routes...
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spice_trade
>>361471
right but they transmitted the good to Europe from the middle east over land
>>361498
Over the few miles from the Sinai to Alexandria maybe. The rest was all sea voyage.
>>359737
Then how come Christian Arabs are bro tier?
>>361957
Lol not really.
There's a lot less of them and the ones that do emigrate are the more well off ones.
