Where did Protestantism go wrong?
>>359671
By being part of Christianity
>>359671
Promoting the idea of a church with no centralised leadership or regulated structure, opening the door to a hundred dipshit breakaway churches.
>>359671
Here.
>>359671
exist
>>359671
when german and north european aristocrats and rulers started to use luther as an excuse to cut the influence of the catholic church.
>>359671
Well depends on what you consider being its failure. Most protestant denominations were born with the specific purpose of subduing religion to national policy, and they did that quite well for centuries, still do.
>>359671
Friendly reminder that anything done to please God is a sin.
Check em heretics
>>359973
Much like the real Calvin, you failed.
When the American Second Great Awakening ended with the northern and southern Baptists divided over slavery
The fact that most Americans still believe in the OT/6000 years etc
They axed their spiritualism. God's presence in the world was dimension, for instance he's not in the Eucharist or any rituals at all. The feminine side of spiritualism is consciously rejected by their instance to make Mary a background character. The saints, and any spiritual significance they had, were also axed. Zwingli lead to the literal destruction of art and is the reason the Protestant church's must be nothing but plain wood and simple crosses.
>>359671
Luther had the right ideas bad implementation.
>>360712
>right ideas
Tbh I think implementation of basically saying fuck you to the Pope was the only good part
>>360777
>Luther had actually several valid points.
None of which failed to be addressed by the counter reformation. So really protestinsm's mistake was to survive the council of Trent.
>>359671
ΒΑCΗΛΙΟC
Jesus Christ whoever made that icon was really fucking bad at spelling.
Isn't it predestination ?
Or maybe not siding with the peasants in 1524.
Sold out the Anabaptists and early evangelical groups because they were communistic and rankled the moneyed interests that kept Luther's heretic head on his shoulders.
>>360976
>siding with the peasants
That's like asking to be burned at the stake. 90% of the peasants would turn tail anyway as soon as they saw they had to go against the church and the nobles on their own.
>>360976
I think predestination is just Calvinist
When the Catholic church went wrong.
The religious wars sucked for Europe.
>>359671
By existing
>>359671
The part where they forgot about little things like "the Bible was literally assembled at Nicea" and "There's probably been mistranslation over the thousands of years" when they argued that "muh sola scriptura" thing.
That and taking things literally.
>>359671
When John bloody Calvin could have kept his stupid French mouth shut. Instead he opened it and gave us American Baptists.
>>359671
Born too early to know via archaeology and historical textual criticism that not only Catholic Church tradition but also the Bible itself is bunk.
>>359973
How does it feel that god preordained you to fail?
>at protestant church for funeral services
>friends and family get up to share memories of the deceased
>pastor suddenly takes podium and begins ranting that evolution is just a theory and humans didn't come from any god damn monkeys
wtf is wrong with these people?
>People should be free to interpret the bible as they see fit
>Why are people interpreting the Bible differently from the way I do?
-Martin Luther
>>363332
Apparently they feel like destroying Christianity's reputation by making them all seem like a bunch of anti scientific retards.
It's weird to think that Fundamentalism is only as old as Nietzsche. Even the earliest church fathers didn't think the bible was completely literal.
> But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
-Matthew 4:4 KJV
The Word of God is our only authority for the Christian faith -Bible only, and that is all that God gives us to know truth;Religion is mostly a tool of Satan to deceive many. I hope no one on this forum will be caught in Satan's web of deceit.
>>359704
/thread
Including atheism
>>363332
Americans have basically discredited any form of conservatism worldwide with their retardation.
>>359973
Thank you for the laugh heretic.
>>363499
One true church confirmed
>>363460
> But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, '''the pillar and ground of the truth'''.
1 Timothy 3:15
The appeal of Catholicism is that it's a way of keeping your cultural paganism while appearing nominally Christian. If you cut out all the paganism, what's the point anymore? That's where the Protestants failed.
>>363531
1 Timothy 3:15 Context;
These things write I unto thee,
>things write I unto thee
Paul obviously believed in the primacy of scripture
>>359671
By taking all the fun and sanity out of Christianity
>>363564
What you quoted lends no support to that. Especially since he didn't consider his own writings scripture. He also doesn't call his writings the pillar and ground of the truth.
>>363571
But the bible does
>Using Scripture
>to prove that Scripture has authority over the church.
Checkmate Babylon
>>359671
At it's heretical inception.
>>359671
With Luther
>>363594
Is one of these going to be "You should probably worship my mom and pretty much anyone else you can vaguely link to a miracle"?
>>363610
>Matthew 16:18
And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
>>363610
Matthew 16:17-19
>(17)And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. (18)"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. (19)"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
>>363615
Deliberate mistranslated of the greek by babylon.
The correct word is "congregation"
>>363619
That's in the King James Bible you inbred protestant mongoloid.
>>363643
Dont take the bible literally bro, it doesnt mention the pope either!
>>363647
Wait a minute. Of course the bible mentions that Peter was the first Pope. Fucking Protestants! My bishop has read the bible dozens of times and he told me it it's in there!
>>363667
>>363647
>post yfw I'm an ex-Protestant who was brought to Catholicism by the bible
>>363660
>everyone who disagrees with me is the devil!
>>363673
>yfw I'm an ex-Protestant who became an atheist but is being brought back to Orthodoxy
I can respect Catholicism tho
>>359938
I don't 'get' Lutheranism
>>363761
>mfw when I'm a Protestant who became an atheist than became a Catholic and I'm now a Gnostic
>>363784
It's heresy
By going against established authority.
>>363786
>and I'm now a Gnostic
>>363794
>>363619
It's "ekklesia", don't be retarded.
>>363786
>Gnosticism
That's practically a giant step backward.
>>363819
You're probably an agent of the Demiurge. Most Christians are.
Once you take the Green pill, than, and only than will you truly see the way things are.
>>363826
>than, and only than
Posts like these are a diamond dozen.
>>363826
>>363826
Brown pill ftwbtw
>>363808
http://www.bible-truth.org/Ekklesia.html
>An examination of the Greek word "ekklesia" reveals that the word is properly translated into English as the "assembly" or "congregation." It is used to refer to a group of persons that are organized together for a common purpose and who meet together.
>>363855
And church can also mean congregation, so I don't see what your point is.
>>363845
I don't think the Demiurge is entirely evil, maybe he's misguided or just made some mistakes. He's actually fairly young and childish by the standards of other Gods.
>>363855
>bible-truth.org
definitive
>>363866
The Roman Church which hyjacked the meaning of ekklesia missdefining it.
Tyndale’s changing of the word “church” to “congregation” challenged the Catholic belief that it was the priests and members of clergy that made up the institution known as the church.
The Catholic Church had long proclaimed that the church was an institution. The word church to them had come to represent the organizational structure that was the Catholic Church.
Reformers preached that the true church was the “invisible” church, that wherever true Christians meet together to preach the word of God was where the church was. To these reformers the structure of the Catholic Church was unnecessary and it's very existence proved that it was in fact not the “true” Church.
>>363564
Paul didn't even write 1 Timothy
>>363880
But "church" in the catholic doctrine can mean both organization and the collective of believers. Mystical body of Christ, remember?
>>363392
>Luther made an attempt to remove the books of Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation from the canon (notably, he perceived them to go against certain Protestant doctrines such as sola gratia and sola fide), but this was not generally accepted among his followers. However, these books are ordered last in the German-language Luther Bible to this day.[5]
>"If Luther's negative view of these books were based only upon the fact that their canonicity was disputed in early times, 2 Peter might have been included among them, because this epistle was doubted more than any other in ancient times". [6] However, the prefaces that Luther affixed to these four books makes it evident "that his low view of them was more due to his theological reservations than with any historical investigation of the canon".[7]
>>363892
>collective of believers.
>>363392
Well...that is....well of course since it's in the bible it's true.....but it doesn't mean Sole Fide is wrong....it means something else....um....well...it means...let me think....OH...I'VE GOT IT...it's not by faith....but by Faith!.....Yes!.....you don't just need faith....you need faith with a capital F....not by faith alone but by LOTS AND LOTS of faith.....see the faith can't be alone....it needs to be with other faith.....one act of faith is alone....but lots of faith is not alone!!!
Man, good old Sole Fide! Never fails!!
>>363855
>Ekklesia
>1577 ekklēsía(from 1537 /ek, "out from and to" and 2564 /kaléō, "to call") – properly, people called out from the world and to God, the outcome being the Church (the mystical body of Christ) – i.e. the universal (total) body of believers whom God calls out from the world and into His eternal kingdom.
>From a compound of ek and a derivative of kaleo; a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both) -- assembly, church.
>Definition: an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers.
http://biblehub.com/greek/1577.htm
>>363928
>The ecclesia or ekklesia (Greek: ἐkkλησία) was the principal assembly of the democracy of ancient Athens during its "Golden Age" (480–404 BCE). It was the popular assembly, open to all male citizens
>assembly of the democracy
>assembly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesia_%28ancient_Athens%29
>>359704
uh...exactly...
Protestantism has created a faith on solid foundations, like an imposing fortress. But inside all the walls are naked and the rooms empty.
Marx says:
"Luther, we grant, overcame bondage out of devotion by replacing it by bondage out of conviction. He shattered faith in authority because he restored the authority of faith. He turned priests into laymen because he turned laymen into priests. He freed man from outer religiosity because he made religiosity the inner man. He freed the body from chains because he enchained the heart."
In other words, Luther picked the imaginary flowers from the chain but still left us the chain to bear without fantasy or consolation.
>>363911
Their explanation btw is that good works will automatically flow forth from faith or something like that.
As a protestant I considered converting to Orthodoxy several times but the idol faggotry is just way too disgusting for me. Had they stayed iconoclasts back in the day I souldn't hesitate for a second.
>>364280
>citing Marx on religion
>>364280
Luther must have done something right if it made legit shitbags like Marx and Nietzsche that mad.
>>364288
I think ISIS will suit you better.
I don't know if they have considering the state of Catholicism today.
>Francis actually wanted Peter "genocide the europeans" Sutherland as his migration expert.
>>364288
16th century Geneva called, they miss you, go home.
>>360712
Are you saying that Luther was ... good in theory?
Sola fide was the main fall, since it separated being Christian from acting like a Christian and reaching for christlike behavior
>>364691
I honestly don't think you know what Sola Fide means.
>>364021
Democracy is different from the anarchy of sola Scriptura
>>359671
By coming to be.
Fucking heretics.
>>364437
If any Protestantism has it even worse.
There is virtually no Protestant cuntree left and let's not forget how many Protties are now SJWs and left wing wishy washy liberals or brainwashed ISIS lite(because they don't have the power to be ISIS).
In fact, Protestantism begins the downfall of Christianity and brought forth today's SJWs, feminists and Fedoras.
Calvin
>>364846
Like I said, I'd become Orthodox already if they scrapped that iconolater shit. It seems like a decent church otherwise but directly going against the commandments rustles my jimbos big time.
>>364934
You are better off joining ISIS who hate religious imagery and the veneration of saints.
Disgusting Iconophobic faggot
Also....the Iconoclasts still support the veneration of Saints. They only have issue with the presence and veneration of Icons which were simply stand ins for relics which Christians since the beginning had venerated.
Stupid c-uck. Learn some history before hurling this bullshit
>>364934
We don't worship the icons themselves you fucking idiot, the purpose of the icon is to aid in the worship of god and the veneration of saints.
>>363664
>Origen
Aren't some of his teachings extremely controversial?
>>364960
>You are better off joining ISIS who hate religious imagery and the veneration of saints.
Tough shit, I'm not a muslim. Their iconoclasm might be admirable but that's about the only thing I find admirable about them.
>They only have issue with the presence and veneration of Icons
Which is exactly what I have a problem with as well.
>>364986
not too controversial, he was a liberal for his time but he wasn't considered crazy or a heretic.
>>364437
>Iconoclasm is the reason why they went to shit
They went to shit because they spent all their military efforts on attacking Italy when they should have focused on the East.
Can someone explain what makes a council Ecumenical? Does that mean that every priest, bishop and people of importance can show up?
>>364989
Muslim wannabe...pls go.
If u want to also follow the Second Commandment, the pic that I would post is also by its definition according to your typical shitty and ignorant interpretation of it is idolatry.
Burn in hell Mudslime scum
>>365013
Are you Ukrainian?
>>365020
No
>>365042
An Ukrainian made that argument to me once.
But anyway, I'm against icons being in the place of worship, but I could live with banning all images altogether. Notice how I'm not posting any?
>>365053
Disgusting.
And you still dare to post on an animu iconophile Byzantine forum.
>>363761
And I can respect Orthodox. You guys are all right. Heck, a large chunk of our differences stem from different traditions forming due to the schism splitting East and West and then just locking themselves away into their own little camps for several hundred years.
Our priests are celibate, yours can get hitched, ours spend most of their time in solid black with an iconic white collar, yours look like badass wizards. That's traditional stuff, it doesn't really need to be debated. The things that do, such as the whole papacy thing, that's more difficult and an actual issue we both must try and reconcile through the grace of God because Lord knows we couldn't do it on our own. That's actual theology and a whole 'bother beast all together.
>>365061
Anime repulses me to be honest. It's nothing but masturbatory pedophile fiction, not to mention very poorly drawn.
>>363904
Yeah, Popes can fuck up grandly, so what? Papal infallibility isn't a constant event.
>>365078
Good, have some more.
Let this repulse the iconoclast crypto-Muslim scumdog
You think Church Fathers ever used memes?
>>365092
I don't think your Church Fathers would approve of you having a digital stash of pedophile shit.
>>365095
what do you think icons are m8?
>>364350
>what is the Ark of the Covenant
>what is the Nehushtan
>>365095
>Luther nails pepe with the 95 Thesis
>>365101
They don't approve of opposition to the veneration of Saints either.
They don't approve of sola scriptura and sola fide too btw.
Islam piggu
>>364990
But he literally castrated himself because he took Matthew 19:12 literally
>>365123
yeah well, it was 214 AD crazy shit happens.
>>365110
old memes. What is the Second Commandment?
>>365117
But would they approve of your pedophilia? Those guys should be like, an authority to you, no?
>>365144
Nice try but all the animu grills posted are of sexually mature age.
That ain't pedophilia. It's just your irrational Allah Ackbar acting up
>>365168
Memes should be punishable by death.
How do Christians feel about raising someone elses child because you can't have your own?
>>365144
Not poster you're conversing with, but why the hell are you even on 4chan?
>>365195
Yeah, Mudslime wannabe, we get that you want to behead all the Iconophiles.
>>365216
Love and charity my friend. We are all gods children and our brothers keepers.
>>365234
What about having someone else fuck your wife because you can't have kids?
>>365231
>we get that you want to behead all the Iconophiles
They should suffer the same fate as the priests Josiah got killed.
>>365249
U and John Manichee Calvin would go really well together.
>>365256
I'm as TULIP as they come but still have some serious issues with Calvinism.
>>365286
>TULIP
Thankfully all of this shit is opposed unanimously by the Church Fathers.
>TFW Calvinism is heresy
ancientfaith/orthodoxyandheterodoxy/2014/01/23/why-i-stopped-being-a-calvinist-part-5-a-deformed-christology
robinphillips/2011/03/are-calvinists-also-among-gnostics
>>365309
I'm not really a calvinist or a protestant to begin with, I abandoned that shit. Trouble is I don't see any viable alternative at this point.
>>365095
Have you seen the "what bored monks drew in the margins of books" thread?
The answer is yes.
>>365327
Your only alternative is Islam Predestinarian Iconophobe
>>365238
Not the same thing. Kick out the so keep the child. Can't hold that sin against them
>>365123
People took kekoldry seriously back then
>>365391
Islam recognizes Jesus only as a prophet and not as God though, so that's hardly an alternative for a Christian.
>>364437
>God commands the creation of icons
>Iconography is a bad thing because my misinterpretation of scripture and history says so
>>364986
Yes and the ones in that image aren't the teachings that were.
>>365491
It's literally explicitly in the Ten Commandments senpai
>>365502
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K-I8RPHwTY
>>365491
>God commands the creation of icons
John of Damascus please go. The instructions about the cherubim on the Ark concerned just the Ark alone.
>>365464
How can you even call yourself Christian when you embrace the heresy of Calvin?
You agree with TULIP for crying out loud!
Protestantism is best religion. Believes in a great creator, which is only common sense. Non violent. Doesn't interfere with the law. Worships no humans. Everyone should be protestant.
>>365572
But its incorrect. What good is believing if you go to hell because of it? You can't just change the rules for going to Heaven.
>>365572
That's the nice asect. The less nice part is fundamentalism and complete life-denial.
>>365580
There is no "correct" religion. Everyone's just guessing. But protestant is best for society.
>>365572
>non-violent
>caused some of the bloodiest religious wars
BUT ALSO
>doesn't interfere with the law
>has people constantly trying to change the law
BUT ALSO
>worships no humans
>what are megachurches
As someone who grew up within a southern baptist church in the US, the unstoppable splitting of protestant churches have created congregations that have zero understanding of how their religion, their church, or their holy text evolved, since every split ever made was because the ones before were clearly just wrong about their brand of Christianity.
The result is that the dominant attitude I heard with regards to biblical criticism I heard was pic related. They treat the bible as written by God (in English, of course) and given directly to people in the 1950s as an inerrant life instruction manual, like it's the fucking Qur'an or something.
>>365592
Calvin's theocracy was a good society?
>>365592
>Best for society
"It does not matter what you do, it only matters what you believe" - Martin Luther
>>365515
I just watched it and it's literally the same point I brought up. It's all the John of Damascus argument. I like to see this from a legal standpoint, when something is forbidden UNLESS permitted.
>God didn't take a form until NT so it's okay to portray Jesus since that was a form
But Catholics flat out depict even the Father as a bearded old man, see Sistine Chapel which is in the Vatican for crying out loud.
I guess the Orthodox score a point in this over the Catholics since they are deliberately violating their own tradition and the doctrines from 7th Ecumenical Council (not to mention scriptures).
Also John of Damascus in his own words:
>If we attempt to make an image of the invisible God, this would be sinful indeed. It is impossible to portray one who is without body:invisible, uncircumscribed and without form.
>>365572
What you just described isn't Protestantism but Deism
>>364309
Marx was praising him.
>>364934
>directly going against the commandments
>google graven image
>a carved idol or representation of a god used as an object of worship.
You know they don't worship them, right?
Also let me guess, you're Baptist.
>>365053
>I could live with banning all images altogether
This is why Papal authority is important people.
Cause some people genuinely don't fucking understand the Bible.
>>365216
>raising someone elses child because you can't have your own
Is that somehow a contentious issue?
>>365238
Does she want kids? Consider annulment, you can get one due to infertility pretty easy.
But if you love each other and don't want to leave, it's probably fine to just get a sperm donation.
>>366291
You now realize that the Catholic distinction between latria and dulia doesn't exist in the Bible. Go look up in which context does Paul use the word δοῦλος and ἐδουλεύσατε especially in Galatians.
>Also let me guess, you're Baptist.
Not even close.
>>366321
>doesn't exist in the Bible
I don't know about that, and even if this is so, who cares? Are you saying direct revelation is somehow void?
>δοῦλος and ἐδουλεύσατε
it's all Greek to me. I don't speak Latin either.
That said a quick google shows that δοῦλος means slave. What is the significance?
>>366321
Disgusting Prottie pls go
You and Muhammad would be good friends.
>>363222
This basically.
>>366380
>no argument
Get fucked idolater.
>>363222
>sola scriptura is the same as literalism
I so want this meme to end.
>>364986
Ad hominum, but yes.
>>359671
With Luther
>>366371
Well if you flat out admit you have no earthly clue what you're talking about maybe it's time to stop posting.
>If we are never rid of Christianity the Germans will be to blame
>>366440
It's not, but it makes it a lot worse if the two are together.
>>366457
Thankfully I don't need to know Greek in order to read the Bible.
>>363826
>Green pill
>>363904
>Allow the Portuguese to purchase and then convert untold masses of Africans to Christ.
>>363619
Then you accept that Peter's authority is legitimate? It should then follow that his successor's authority holds legitimate authority as well.
>>366489
If you say so
>>366497
>that chart
I've actually met Demons while astral-projecting, when you are a newbie they can trick into thinking they are the good guys but once you learn how to read auras it doesn't work. On the other hand Christians are the ones who can become fooled because they deny the auras (that's not God who is answering your prayers).
If you really want to do something about the Illuminati seek out Abraxas.
>>364288
>I considered converting to Orthodoxy several times but the idol faggotry is just way too disgusting for me
By this admission you must consider the Sacraments, mysticism, and all other ceremonies as appropriate, yet for some reason believe icons as heretical. You hold them right on so many other subjects, which rely on much the same traditions as icons, yet you balk at that? Or are you perhaps simply jumping ship unable to find a Protestant Church "redpilled" and bellicose enough for your tastes?
>>366533
rare?
>>366434
>All the Early Christians venerate saints and shit
>Jews also venerate angels and shit
If any....the one that got fucked is you filthy Prottie.
>>366276
A praise and criticism all in one desu
>>365144
everyone approves of lolis, anon
>>366662
You're evil.
>>359671
post world war 2 era like everything else
>>364285
What about nonreligious charities?
What if an Atheist saves a little girl from being run over by a truck?
>>366792
Maybe they'll say it's faith consciously denied but unconsciously manifest.
>>366755
why?
>>359671
By being schismatic
>>360975
> not knowing lunate sigma
