How come after SEVEN coalitions Europe didn't just say fuck it and balkanize france forever?
They showed way more restraint than I'd expect, is it due to war being much smaller and 'professional' in scale then?
>>359019
After all that shit, the rest of Europe just wanted the French to calm down
Enraging the French people once again wasnt seen as very clever given what they pulled during the Revolution
Also, French royal family was still very powerful in Europe
Not to mention that putting back monarchy was meant to send a message to the pleb of all Europe: "Don't try to rebel, in the end you'll lose anyway".
>>359035
>belligerents
>united states
What?
>>359035
>Not to mention that putting back monarchy was meant to send a message to the pleb of all Europe: "Don't try to rebel, in the end you'll lose anyway".
Does this take the cake for the most hilarious backfire of all time?
>>359041
Quasi War.
>>359041
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-War
The French asked Americans to pay them the money they owned them cause it was needed for the war, but Americans refused and sided with Brits
>>359041
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-War
>>359042
Wanna ride?
>>359019
I seem to recall something about Talleyrand arguing that dismembering France would just utterly fuck up any balance of power in Europe and guarantee a lot of wars in the near future.
IIRC he was such an absolute madman in the Congress of Vienna that he managed to have France keep some of the territories conquered in the Revolutionary Wars.
>>359066
Talleyrand was a weird dude
He betrayed about everyone, but in the end France owes him a lot
>>359076
What's even more amazing is that before long everyone knew about his backstabbing tendencies yet he got away with it everytime.
>>359035
You know, looking at that image, I'd almost say the French Revolutionary Wars was basically the first actual world war.
>>359035
that's like France vs the world
>>359101
>seven years war
>>359061
The king is the state and the state is the king.
The 13 colonies had a contract between them and Luis xvi not "France" or any other French entity. It's actually explicitly spelled out in the actual contract.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fr-1783.asp
>>359035
What the fuck was Norway doing?
>>359035
>france vs world
>france wins
explain this coalitionfags
>>359061
This happened before the French invasion of Algeria:
>In 1795–96, the French Republic had contracted to purchase wheat for the French army from two Jewish merchants in Algiers, and Charles X was apparently uninterested in paying off the Republic's debt. These merchants, who had debts to Hussein Dey, the Ottoman ruler of Algiers, claimed inability to pay those debts until France paid its debts to them. The dey had unsuccessfully negotiated with Pierre Deval, the French consul, to rectify this situation, and he suspected Deval of collaborating with the merchants against him, especially when the French government made no provisions for repaying the merchants in 1820. Deval's nephew Alexandre, the consul in Bône, further angered the dey by fortifying French storehouses in Bône and La Calle against the terms of prior agreements.[11]
Frenchfag here. The answer is basically "Talleyrand".
And he wasn't even invited in the serious discussions of the congress of Vienna at first, which make it even more impressive.
>>359019
For 2 reasons basically; restoring monarchy to pass the message that revolution cannot into win to the plebs all over Europe; and for geopolitical reasons, basically for Uk and Russia to have a goyim country strong enough to keep balance of power in central europe but weak enough to not be able to impose its terms alone.
>>359066
>Talleyrand
He managed to convince everybody that France should be counted between winning powers, because Bourbons won over Napoleon.
Also - if I recall correctly - UK and Austria (led by another diplomatic ace Metternich) wanted to keep some lever against Prussia and Russia.
I wonder what would happened If Germany had gotten the same treatment after WW1.
>>359541
French are just the true heirs of Charlemagne, no matter how much the Germans try to deny it
How would you balkanize France?
>>359993
Release britanny and aquitaine?
>>359019
>How come after SEVEN coalitions Europe didn't just say fuck it and balkanize france forever?
They tried, I think. It was the British who argued against it.
>>359532
Denmark-Norway was initially neutral until Britain attacked them for no reason
>>359972
>I wonder what would happened If Germany had gotten the same treatment after WW1.
But it's literally what happened
Germany should have been partioned, but Brits refused cause they feared it would make France and Russia too string
>>360032
well that worked out great in the end
There was this nice peaceful little country called Tsarist Russia massively expanding to the east, taking over much of the polish clay that prussia owned before and seemingly (at least it appeared so in 1815) making prussia its vasall.
Metternich and Talleyrand made people realize that another strong continental country besides austria was needed to stop russia.
>>360032
Pretty much:
>France spazzes out and seizes territories where they have some mild form in legitimacy in overtaking them (because muh revolution ideals)
>France loses despite initial gains
>destituted of those expansions and brought back to their initial state
>Germany spazzes out and seizes territories where they have some mild form in legitimacy in overtaking them (because muh germanic reunification)
>Germany loses despite initial gains
>destituted of their expansions an brought back to their initial state
Both their reactions however differ in that France didn't weep childishly of the treatment exacted on them for having taken on the world, and bro-ed up with Great Britain instead.
>>359993
>Normandy and Calais returned to British administration.
>Statesfor the Bretons, Occitanians, Basques, Picards, Guyanians
>Give Alsace-Lorraine to Germany
>Nice and that other fuckin territory to italy
>Corsica to italy
>>359019
Tallyrand
>>360015
They joined the Second League of Armed Neutrality, which was considered a casus belli for the british.
They also destroyed the prussian trade fleet and almost opened a war with russia because these two were part of the league as well.
>>360096
>Nice and that other fuckin territory to italy
Italy didnt exist
It was Austrian occupied territory
Because they couldn't?
You think France would have just let that happen?
>>360096
But there was no italy or germany at the time.
and nice was no french clay, they only got it after winning the Italian Unification war some 50 years later
>muh Talleyrand
Diplomacy isn't about sucking dicks, it's about geopolitical realities. Balkanising France was not ever anywhere near the realm of possibilities.
France was the country with the most developed sense of national identity with over a thousand years of history, it had very recently taken on the entire rest of Europe and repeatedly won, and there was no possible moral justification considering France didn't start any of the coalition wars and the coalitions' declared goal was to restore the French monarchy.
>>360133
French just lost the largest conflict europe had ever seen, suffered a couple of hundred thousand casualties and had their country overrun by mad prussians and russians.
There was nothing at all that they could have done against it.
>>360166
>France didn't start any of the coalition wars
Bonaparte pls.
>>360171
They could rebel again
France was one of the most nationalistic country of the time
Spliting Germany in 1918 would have been met with less resistance than spliting France in 1815
>>360184
He only initiated the conquest of Spain and Moscow, which is to say two irrelevant shitholes not worth draining others into a war. The Napoleonic wars could've ended with the treaty of Amiens, had the english not repeatedly broken the agreement for their 'honor'.
>>360171
Are you retarded? They would just have gone back to war. Nobody could possibly accept that, including the king, aristocracy, and royalists. This wouldn't work until every last Frenchman was killed.
And how would you even go about it? How would you prevent the "balkanised" parts of France from rejoining, permanent Prussian-Russian occupation?
>>360096
>germaboo delusions and other such fancifull tales
>>360184
He didn't, that's why they're called "coalition" wars, genius. They were coalitions formed to go to war against France.
>>360185
The french population was sick and tired of war and conflict even before the invasion of russia. and since then the casualties only kept increasing
Whatever was left of their spirit was crashed in the invasion of france in 1814 and the 100 Days a year later.
Sure there would be some guerilla activity if the Great Coalition would have made them a new poland, but at least in the next years there wasnt really anything they could have achieved. Especially not with half a million prussians, austrians and russians occupyin their major cities.
>>360032
Germany wasn't even invited to discussions, which left Germans obviously pissed.
>>360208
>>360208
The Revolutionary Wars started after the french invasion of the Low Countries; the very first coalition was only formed when france occupied the low countries, while invading the Rhineland and Savoy.
The second coalition was formed when france made switzerland its vasall and invaded malta.
The third coalition was started by the allies, but even then only because of Napoleon crowning himself King of Italy, which was clearly marked as a red line.
The Peninsular War was started by France.
The sixth coalition war was just a continuation of the french defeat in russia.
>>360208
Two irrelevant shitholes that dragged all his Empire to the mud.
Great job.
>>360239
>The french population was sick and tired of war and conflict
You think the rest of Europe wasn't?
>Whatever was left of their spirit was crashed in the invasion of france in 1814
Well clearly not, since Napoleon came back from exile, everyone cheered, joined him, and put him back on the throne, and France went back to war.
>Especially not with half a million prussians, austrians and russians occupyin their major cities.
Half a million soldiers against the entire population of France and its government.
I don't think you understand. France isn't just some made up country you can balkanise.
>>360274
What? Pretty sure France still exists m8.
>>360275
>The Revolutionary Wars started after the french invasion of the Low Countries
That's false though
The Revolutionary Wars started with the Austro-Prussian invasion of France that was stopped at Valmy
The invasion of the Austrian dominated Low Countries happened while pursuing the Austrians after having kicked them out of France
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaigns_of_1792_in_the_French_Revolutionary_Wars#Invasion
>>360376
>That's false though
It isnt.
> literally no mention of the polish-saxon crisis
P/Russian claims after the war was the reason Britain and Austria signed a secret treaty with France anf therefore needed it in one piece. If the Russians didnt claim all of Poland and Prussia not claiming all of Saxony then who knows what wouldve happened to France.
Oh yeah and it was Talleyrand that got them their deal.
>>359061
Technically they were right. Just like the USSR is a completely different legal entity than the Russian Empire.
>>360298
I was talking about Hundred Days Empire.
>>359019
>Those borders
jesus christ
all these annexations seem to be done completely at whim
why the fuck do you annex Barcelona, that wedge of germany under denmark, and fuking 4/5ths of croatia and leave everything else near them?
The only one that makes sense is annexing the Papacy because lol we emprah nao gon' need a pope to crown me
>>360789
Hog all the coastline so Britain can't land
>>360789
The left bank of the rhine because natural borders are nice, catalonia because they were rich and not strongly attached to spain, the netherlands and hamburg because when left on their own they keep trying to trade with england, and Illyria ? No idea.
there were only seven coalitions because the allies were all fucking incompetent and had conflicting interests and kept breaking up over petty drama
>>360789
It's Catalonia and it's rightful French clay, and the North Sea coast was annexed in order to enforce the continental system.
>>360868
>everything left of the rhine is ours because it's our natural borders!!!
>catalonia is ours, even though they're past the pyrenees which serve as a natural border!!!
French fries never cease to amaze me.
>the world tries to bring you down seven times
>you stand up six times
Feels tragic.
Those borders would have been perfect if he had given Italy and Illyria to Murat
So why is Napoleon idolized while Hitler is a villain?
>>360921
It's hard to stop conquering when you keep winning.
Every relevant country experienced that.
>>360419
>tfw no comfy Saxony-Poland union in 19th century Europe
why?
>>360935
Which ethnic minority did Napoleon try to eradicate? Also Napoleon won 6 wars
>>360935
Napolion didn gas dem kikes
>>360942
>Which ethnic minority did Napoleon try to eradicate?
How is this relevant?
>Also Napoleon won 6 wars
Hitler faced off against worse odds
>>360848
>and Illyria ? No idea.
Because fuck Austria
Also, no trade in the Aegean for Britain
>>360938
>why?
Prussia and Russia a shit
>>360789
>>360848
>Catalonia
Rich enough, also to strike fear into the hearts of the Bourbons
>low Countries + Hanover
To enforce the continental system
>provinces of Illyria
1. Prevent Austria from having an access to sea
2. Bolster relations and trade with the Ottermen Empire
It had the unexpected side effect of bolstering Slovenian Enlightenment, National identity and Confidence to levels seen before. It was during those times that Slovene textbooks were first printed and a Slovene university and Lycee opened in Ljubljana. The Illyrian provinces also dealt away with the old feudal system and abolished the serf class.
It was a net positive for Slovenians.
Pic related is Valentin Vodnik, an enlightenment writer, grammaticist, journalist, college professor and poet that collaborated a lot with the French. As you can see he has the RF emblem on his statue.
>>359057
>>360953
>Hitler faced off against worse odds.
When Hitler began WWII, he was:
>allied with Russia
>allied with Italy.
>Britain didn't seem to give a fug
>USA is on the far side of an ocean and doesn't give a fug.
The only major European power standing against him was France, and we all know how that turned out. Yes, Britain was against him in name, but didn't do shit until after Dunkirk.
>>360981
and that's the napoleon memorial in Ljubljana.
>>360789
Catalonia is rightful Occitan clay
The Rhine is France's natural border
The Frisian coast is just to piss Brits off
>>360953
>Hitler faced off against worse odds
Not really
Napoleon arrived to power in a country that was in a state of civil war and under attack from the world's most powerful nation
He restored order and kicked the invaders out, eventually conquering them
Hitler arrived to power during peace time
He quietly rebuilt the war industry while no one around gave a hit or tried to intervene.
Then he teamed up with Russia to invade fucking Poland
After that he defeated France mainly due to French incompetence.
And then, he attacked Russia for the lulz
This is the moment he really started to face great a coalition, and he lasted only 3 years in that condition
Napoleon lasted more than a decade and defeated five coalitions
>>360989
>allied with the USSR
More of a non-aggression pact and invasion of Poland, neither side expected this pact to hold for very long.
>allied with Italy
Some fucking ally that turned out to be
>britain didn't seem to give a fug
Not true
>USA is on the far side of an ocean and doesn't give a fug.
Send plenty of aid and eventually troops, preventing the Germans from committing their full troops on the eastern front
>>360992
Napoleon "Big Guy" Bonaparte's head and Slovenian president in Ljubljana
>>360921
The Natural Borders were a real concept. Pretty much, that the Rhine, the Pyrenees and the Alps should form the border, because it looks nice on a map. Most of these were already the borders, but they had to add italian Savoy (which is now still french), the Austrian Netherlands and left-bank germany.
Anything else was Napoleon going totally overboard.
>we need to control the coastline to cockblock british trade, so lets annex the netherlands and northern germany
>catalonia doesnt like the spanish central authority and is kinda pro-french, so lets annex them as well
>the Bourbons are shit, so lets annex borbon ruled parma and tuscana
>austria defeated yet again, so what to choose now as victory booty? the illyrian coast sounds nice
>so we dismantled Sardinia-Piedmont and got Nice and Savoy, what to do with Turin? Uh, lets keep it.
>>361033
contemporary painting of Napoleon helping a personification of Ilirija stand up. Probably inspired by Vodnik's poem "Illyria Wake Up!"
>>360921
The ebro and not the pyrenees was the natural border for Napoleon
>>359108
>30 years war
>>360938
Because obviously Poland is better ruled by benevolent Mother Russia then by some shitty second-rate german state.
>>360981
Hanover was not annexed by france but given to the kingdom of Westphalia (which just happen to be ruled by napoleons brother, but that is probably just some lucky coincidence)
>>359019
It was about respecting the status quo, it's why they went to war with France to begin with. Napoleon went to war to destroy the status quo in Europe and redraw the world, the coalitions were made to keep the status quo intact, that status quo included the Kingdom of France.
>>360953
>How is this relevant?
>how is slaughtering millions of civilians relevant to one being considered a villain by the people of those countries
Hitler didn't even pretend like those places would benefit in any way
>>361061
Then why not reversing the Partitions of Poland? Surely that would also ensure the status quo.
>>360933
The perfect (and rightful) borders of France are the atlantic, the mediterranean, the black sea, the dnieper, the velikaya river, the baltic, the eider, the north sea and la manche.
>>361074
Dont argue with /pol/.
Just dont do it. Or at least not here.
>>361081
Because stop questioning me and just accept everything I say is 100% fact.
>>361074
>how is slaughtering millions of civilians relevant to one being considered a villain by the people of those countries
What millions did he slaughter and what what countries were they?
>>361061
>Napoleon went to war to destroy the status quo in Europe and redraw the world
But that's wrong
Napoleon went to war because the rest of Europe declared war on him
Take a look at facts instead of spouting bullcraps
>>361107
>What millions did he slaughter
The six ones
>>361040
>Illyria is a plain and fat middle-aged woman
Huh. That's a surprisingly humble way to personify one's country.
>>361117
>few hundred thousand prisoners in a resource starved nation at war with the world succumbs to typhus outbreaks
>no, it must have been ten times that amount and they all died through elaborate death traps straight from cartoons, like showerheads pumping deadly gases!
0/10
>>361061
THIS. It was about restoring the autocratic European world order. Just look at the Holy Alliance after the war. The irony, of course, is that Britain, which did the lion's share of the work, wasn't a part of that alliance and wasn't an absolute monarchy.
(Also, not that Napoleon was a paragon of republicanism, but the point was that he wasn't a "legitimate" ruler of the ancien regime.)
>>361107
>your daily pol dosage
>>361081
Because they were hypocrites. All for restoring the status quo, except when they could benefit from the changes. That, and nobody really gave a fuck about Poland getting split up beause that it itself doesn't throw the European order out of balance, unless one of the dividing countries gained significantly more than another from the division, which didn't really happen. Splitting up a powerful, important nation like France, on the other hand, would have disrupted all of the major alliances and dynasties,and potentially left one of the victorious allies much worse off in the near future.
>>361120
Our national anthem doesnt really glorify our country, but is really a drinking song about utopian world peace:^)
>>361140
>is that Britain, which did the lion's share of the work
This is what britons actually believe
>>361120
She's supposed to be old as fuck (Illyria was a thing even before the Roman Empire annexed it), so Napoleon is basically helping an old grandma from her Roman Grave to come back to life.
Illyria is always shown as an old wise woman.
>>361161
Fuck Naprej Zastava Slave should have remained our anthem.
Too bad Kučan&Co decided to kek us even more by replacing our national anthem by hippy bullcrap.
And now Naprej Zastava Slave is being appropriated by stupid /pol/acks.
;_;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0jRyCC9d5o
>>361204
>muh guns
>muh blood
>muh cleansing fire
Ugh, disgusting
>>361059
>In my headcanon the German borders stretch from the Pyrenees to the Urals.
Well too bad you're not the emperor nor a brilliant general
>>361081
Because obviously you will only defend the statu quo that benefits you.
>>359541
The lost basically went nuts and began dumping everything they had into the military
The french solution to everything was "send the army". The difference in their logistics, tech level and discipline of the land army was so big was ridiculous. Only reason they didn't curbstomp all of Europe was because they couldn't invade Britain and the brits turtled up with the navy
>>360239
Dude if I was a frnech and lost the war, the moment they told me "france is no more, now you self administrate" i'd be storming the administration demanding reunification
>>361352
English Channel best channel. But also
>French
>navy
helped too.
>>361423
More or less. The Brits managed to hold the French at bay long enough for the Bismar- I mean the Germans/Prussians to get their shit together and form a centralized state that could compete with France.
I'm not shitting on the rest of Europe, but by the 1700s the French were just too hardcore to take on one on one. Either they didn't have the tech (Russia), the manpower (Scandis), or the resources to do it.
>>361107
11 million people from assorted groups, primarily Jews, Gypsies, and the mentally/physically disabled.
>>361494
>I'm not shitting on the rest of Europe, but by the 1700s the French were just too hardcore to take on one on one. Either they didn't have the tech (Russia), the manpower (Scandis), or the resources to do it.
France indeed used to be the God of War in Europe
To bad they fell so low in the last century...
>>361107
primarily the former territories of the Russian empire, like Poland and the USSR. How were the places he invaded supposed to benefit? They have no option other than to think him a villain.
Napoleon's conquests at least had the pretense of benefiting the people there
>>361753
>not mentioning slavs
Are you racist or something?
>>361423
>>french
>>navy
Actually, the french had a really formidable navy at the time, probably second best, even up until trafalgar, nelson was afraid of engaging the combined french/spanish fleets and was the underdog in the battle
>>363921
He should have said:
>French
>Admiral
