![pearl2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BZqipyR.jpg "pearl2[1].jpg")
Was Pearl Harbor a surprise attack or did FDR keep the people in the dark and frame it as a surprise attack for justification in entering the war?
The latter 2bh
>>356269
Of course it was a surprise attack. There is literally no reason to think otherwise.
The Japanese planned it as a surprise attack, they coordinated it as a surprise attack, and launched it as a surprise attack.
It was a surprise attack.
>>356269
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p119_Stolley.html
>>356281
It stopped being a surprise when the American government found out about it before it actually happened.
>>356269
War planners knew a strike of some sort was going to happen. Exactly when and where nobody knew. They certainly didn't expect them to go for the jugular and hit Pearl Harbor, Philippines, Wake Island, and Guam all at fucking once.
>>356411
Information doesn't exactly go up the chain of command at lightspeed.
>>356414
>exactly when and where
US overseas possessions: midway, hawaii
zones of interest: guam, phillipines
Critical and huge fleet port in the pacific: Pearl Harbour, home to a huge chunk of the pacific fleet
when massive stupidity is required for something to happen, it is very much the case that it was orchestrated ineptitude.
>>356451
They didn't expect it all at once.
>when massive stupidity is required for something to happen, it is very much the case that it was orchestrated ineptitude.
>Being this much of a presentist
I shouldn't expect better from /his/
>>356451
The Japanese knew the carriers weren't going to be there for the attack. They went ahead anyway
The US government had some idea that Japan might be up to something, but not any specifics.
The US government had some idea that Japan might be about to try something, but not the specifics.
>>356920
Not only that, NOBODY seriously thought that the Japanese had the audacity to strike at Peal Harbor.
>>356269
Navy intelligence officers had decoded the diplomatic code and knew the Japs were discarding further negotioations. They also knew that large japanese military convoys were heading south towards the South China Sea, and that the entire Japanese Combined Fleet had left port and was somewhere unknown.
In between this events and the attack on Pearl Harbor literally nothing was done to enhance the combat readiness and the security of naval and air forces of the United States in sensible areas in prevision of a possible. On Dec 7 1941, everyone wad literally sleeping when the attack began, the ships laid as sitting ducks in the harbor and the planes all grounded and in perfect line.
It's like if nowadays tensions get super high with Russia, russian messages about a final solution to the american problem get intercepted, the entire russian submarine fleet leaves harbor and is detected by satellites, but yet, no alert is passed and the american fleet rests merrily in harbor with the officers playing golf and the seamen eating burgers.
Yeah, calling it a "surprise attack" ould mean that everyone in the Military and security agencies is gigantically incompetent to Down Syndrome levels.
>>356269
They knew the Japanese were going to attack some allied pacific colony, but they were complacent and didn't seriously entertain the idea that Pearl Harbor itself would be attacked. There were plenty of breadcrumbs, but it's hindsight. The Japanese fleet did a very good job of staying hidden once it was on the move, and it was a legitimately well-executed surprise attack.
>>356281
If you said this in November 1941, you'd be a conspiracy theorist.
>>356269
He didn't let it happen, but someone in the information chain may have purposefully.
>>357092
>Well Executed
>No third wave was launched
>Ground bombs intended for oil reserves used pointlessly on already sinking ships
>Captured mini-subs give the US at least SOME warning
>Carriers un-touched
Tora! Tora! Tora!
