Were there any Christian counties that executed for apostasy /his/?
Currently debating a Muslim apologist who is trying to excuse the current apostasy laws in Muslim countries. I've googled but all I get is Christians being executed in Muslim countries
>>354223
Islam is a cult
Russian laws from 1600s~ stated that any muslim or jew trying to convert a Christian should be burned at the stake
I'll have to look it up for a source
>debating a muslim anything
You dun goofed son.
>>354223
He's already defeated his own argument, two wrongs do not make a right. Simply because there may have existed apostasy laws in christian nations does not excuse the muslim apostasy laws, or magically make the christian apostasy laws just either.
It's simply wrong no matter how you cut it and no matter which religion it's done in the name of.
>>354223
An apostate would be a heretic, and that might get you the stake if you don't keep your mouth shut about it. Now, does this excuse such laws in the present day and age? Hell no, and you shouldn't even be talking to people who suggest otherwise.
> in Muslim countries.
In some Muslim countries.
>>354428
In most, look at the map. And given the current government, Turkey might soon join the club.
>>354419
Muslims always deflect like that, but to be honest, people who have biases do so all the time. It's called arguing in bad faith.
I can't begin to describe how many times I've heard Israeli atrocities against Palestinian civilians be evaded by pointing at some other worse atrocity committed in some other country in the world.
>what is the Holy Office of the Inquisition
Not just apostates: you could be killed for believing a different version of the same religion!
>>354459
Yes. 400 years ago.
Just because Christianity did something before, doesn't make it right for Muslims to do something in the year 2015.
>>354468
> were there any countries that executed for apostasy
>were
>on /his/
I don't think I'm the one that's confused here.
>>354468
>were there any Christian countries that executed for apostasy
>were
>/his/
>>354223
>Were there any Christian counties that executed for apostasy /his/?
I'm fairly sure atheism was a crime in most of the European countries in medieval and early modern eras. Other than that, I don't see how conversion to a different faith would be a social problem that needed government regulation. 99% of people were Christian, so you didn't have any missionaries prozelytizing their faith. The only minority were the Jews and it's not like anyone would go and convert to judaism, seeing how the Jews didn't prozelytize, and conversion offered little gain.
On the other hand I'm fairly sure that Jewish and Muslim converts to Christianity were punished in Spain if they reverted to their old faith.
Also conversion between various brands of Christianity might have been punishable in a few countries after wars of religion.
>>354479
Yes, but he is asking in the context of a discussion with a Muslim in the year 2015.
Regardless of whether it's true that the Inquisition killed people for apostasy 400 years ago, does not mean that majority Muslim states should do this in 2015.
>>354497
Well, then perhaps the OP should have said: "Is it right for Muslims to execute people for apostasy in 2015?".
BUT THAT NOT WHAT THE QUESTION WAS, WAS IT?
>>354506
Calm down Cletus. No reason to get your tits in a vice.
>>354493
Is there any point in discouraging atheism in a community while being lax about people following whatever religion they want?
Can it be said that, given the intelligence of the average person, religion or some other form of social identity is needed to keep order in large societies?
>>354515
>oops, I got caught making a shitty bait thread
>>354523
He's not OP, I am.
>>354520
The point where it freaks me out is when you have "thought-crimes" I.e.: following the forms aren't enough: you have to swear to a belief.
>>354438
The very map says otherwise. Only the countries in red have a death penalty for it.
>>354533
So, OP, can you clarify the intent of your question?
To discuss Muslim practice? Or to inquire about historical Christian practices?
>>354553
This, it's may be easier to help as well. There's a huge difference between the amount of Muslim nations with a death penalty for it and the amount of Muslims living in a Muslim country where it's a death penalty for it.
And that's without going into detail with what you mean by "Muslim country".
>>354520
The Waffen SS required only that recruits were Gottglaubig, ie. God-believing in one form or another. This included Christian, neopagans, deists and Muslims. Himmler said that he couldn't trust anyone who didn't believe in a higher power.
From the other end of the scale, early modern Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth had an enormous level of religious tolerance. After the Warsaw Confederation of 1573 any Christian denomination enjoyed equal laws, from Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox all the way to the anti-trinitarian Arians who were exiled from all other countries. The muslim Tatar nobility had the same rights as Christian nobility, and the Jews called Poland their safe haven. Despite that, there was one dude who got burned at stake for openly proclaiming that there is no God and that the Bible is a counterfeit.
>>354586
What I'm wondering though is whether or not the anti-atheistic measures were necessary.
I don't think we've ever truly seen a largely atheist society, though the nordic countries may be getting close. It'd be interesting to see how each of them fare. I'm assuming that a largely atheist state is also going to be largely leftist as well.
>>354602
Soviet Union?
China?
>>354223
Apostasy laws in Islam don't really exist in most countries. I know that map says so, but the reality when there is that it's a mostly unpunished crime. A lot of people especially in the youth will freely admit to being atheist or agnostic. And most of them won't execute someone for it because they know it will be all over the media. Except Saudi because they can get away with anything since they're Uncle oilio
>>354438
The map clearly shows the opposite of in most.
>Muslim apologist
*tips fedora*
>>354223
In Spain, not being catholic meant death or expulsion for a long time. The inquisition searched for faux converts.
I don't know if that counts.
Apostasy is dumb in the first place. Forcing people to believe in your version of the truth whether your truth is actually true or not is pretty much defeating the purpose.
>>354223
holy shit historically all of Europe had moments of execution for apostasy, even the united states had our Salem witch hunts and those weren't even admitted apostasy, just conjectured heresy
[spoiler]and now time for conspiracy theories[/spoiler]
every religion goes through points of radicalization and fundamentalism, and 99% of the time it is so a government will have greater ability to rule (e.g. I rule under god's hand and I punish those only that god would punish etc.)
FFS even the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, and Mayans did it. So it isn't even segregated to just modern Abraham religions
>>354223
Charlemagne famously converted 100,000 pagan germans in a single day (all were facing execution otherwise)
>>355267
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxon_Wars
pseudo source, should have the info in there
if I remember correctly I read about the 100,000 strong conversion in the book "a world lit only by fire"
>>355267
"It was in response to this setback that Charlemagne, at the Blood court of Verden, ordered the beheading of 4,500 Saxons who had been caught practising paganism after converting to Christianity"
hmmm beheading, sound familiar?
>>355034
not really though
Soviets tried to become fully atheist but eventually turned a blind eye to the church.
China allows Chinese religions under state control
>>354223
>who was bloody Mary I of England
>>354419
This.
OP, you opened yourself to this deflection when you framed the argument as Christianity vs Islam.
Granted, I can see why you did that.
>>355481
A based remover of heretics, usurpers, and traitors.
>>355160
That's because the purpose isn't what you think
>>354428
*Most
>>354223
What? Nigeria isn't even a muslim-majority country.
>>356208
Yes it is you idiot
>>356211
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigeria#Religion
>>356219
That's a recent change, mark me wrong
>>354223
>death penalty for apostasy in Iran
>yet 5 seats in the majlis are reserved for religious minorities
This thread started bad and became worse. Why do Muzzies have to shit everything?
>>356235
Learn what apostasy means
>>354416
>All I did was post a hitchens debate on facebook.
Your goofing is maximum.
