Should the Bombing of Dresden be considered a War Crime?
>>346909
Why don't you tell me what you think, Hans?
>>346909
Dresden was designated a Fortress by Hitler, thus it was not a war crime.
>Should
Fuck off to /pol/
"War crimes" are a social construct.
>>346921
Pretty much this, this entire legal lingo about wars is pretty much horseshit.
>It's HORRIBLE if you use chemical weapons, you fucking butcher !!!
>just murder those people with regular shells lol
No, because we won. :^)
>>346946
War is the only beautiful thing in life
>>346937
Nice strawman, do you make them in the day room?
>>346967
>pic related.
>>346968
He makes them in the arts and crafts class at his local community center.
>>346909
Question: Why is Dresden THE famous strat bomb target and not say, Hamburg, which got hit way harder?
>>346984
Don't ask a question you know the answer to. There was a firestorm that resulted from the intensity of the bombings at dresden
>>346946
I think the idea is that weapons that are intended to cripple people without killing them are the ones that are prohibited. Dying is better than being blinded or paraplegic, both for you and whatever country that has to take care of you.
>>346984
It was framed as a target of no strategic value. In reality it was, but reality has never stood in the way of hippy butt rage.
Also, Howard Zinn who was a massive faggot.
>>346937
Dropping the bombs on Japan were the best possible outcomes for both the US and Japan in the long run.
>>347002
Wow you are really assblasted aren't you? Did a German rape your mum?
>>346989
So did Hamburg. Successive waves of bombers carrying incindieries had no idea what to do, because the parts of the city they were supposed to bomb were still on fire from the last waves. (British planning assumed the German firefighting would be up to the task)
>>347022
>British planning assumed the German firefighting would be up to the task
lol
>>347022
>British planning assumed the German firefighting would be up to the task
There's an easy test to determine if Germans will be successful at a given task
Is it philosophy or physics? No? They'll be shit at it.
It was a war crime indeed.
>>346918
This. Intended as a war-crime. But it wasn't. Because no civilians were harmed, there are no non-combatants in a fortress.
>>347038
>this whole post
>>347038
What about engineering?
>>346909
By the standards of the time, no, it was not. Dresden was a strategic target (major railway hub), so it warranted a bombing raid. Does it suck for the noncombatants who were caught in the crossfire? Of course. But strategic bombing, no matter how heavy-handed, was not considered a war crime by any belligerent during the war. Even though the Luftwaffe bombings of Rotterdam, Chungking, and Warsaw were arguably far more malicious in their intent (indiscriminate bombing aimed at terrorizing the population rather than hitting any strategic targets), nobody was tried for strategic bombing at Nuremberg or Tokyo.
Besides, if we're going to get all pissy about firebombing, why aren't we more concerned with the devastation brought to Hamburg or Tokyo?
>>346937
American AND British logic, anon.
>>347101
Coming from a BMW owner, their engineering is cool in some regards, but not entirely reliable.
>>346909
>"look at my works, ye mighty, and despair"
start shit; get hit
>>346909
Together with Stalingrad, Coventry and other bombings which main target was civilians and their houses and which have caused horrible damage to the cultural heritage of humanity - architecture, pieces of art etc.
>>347009
Atom bombs, best outcome
This has to be bait desu senpai
>>347673
Not even remotely.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_DownfallYou
>>346909
>>347723
Salting the earth.
>>347686
>still believing this bullshit
>>346921
Have anyone at any point in time ever argued the opposite?
>>346909
I'll consider it when the Nazis win.
Oh wait.
>>347701
Daily reminder that Bomber Harris did nothing wrong
>>347793
When its Total War, nothing is wrong as long as you win.
>>346997
>intended to cripple people without killing them
are you kidding? artillery and shrapnel mangles people horrifically whereas chemical weapons like mustard gas arguably kill you quickly and painlessly. even chlorine gas works fast, though all poison gasses do terrible things too no doubt without killing
B A S E D
>>347002
the bombing of Dresden was widely questioned long before Zinn wrote about it
Kurt Vonnegut wrote a great deal about it for instance since he was a POW there and saw the destruction of the city first hand.
>>347752
its not just the projected casualties, if the US had gone forward with that there would be no south korea and japan would have been divided into communist and capitalist zones
>"Should".
Look. It clearly wasn't a war-crime because WW2 was viewed as a defensive war by everyone except Nazi-Germany.
And lets not forget that Dresden and Hamburg were both responses to the German bombing of Portsmouth and other towns which killed a lot of civilians as well.
>>346909
There is no such thing as war crime in total war.
>>349464
Oh no, there is. Not here though
>>347075
fuck off germanigger
>>347038
>7-1
>>346909
yes
>>352679
>Dead krauts
>a bad thing
>>352679
mm, crispy.
>>346909
Yes, but it was conducted by the winners.
>>347740
Gar Alperovitz pls go
>>352708
i wish all of fagermany was firebombed
>>346909
US was racing Soviets to Berlin.
Soviets were like PLZ HELP ON EASTERN FRONT FAGS
USA and Britain be like, k fine
So USA and Britain level a non-strategic city to show Soviets
LOOK we fucked that shit up on the Eastern front, you happy?
So the soviets were satisfied that the Western allies were prepared to help them on the East, while not being strategically significant so it didnt speed up Russian advance onto Berlin
It was TOTAL WAR. Every enemy target is a legitimate target.
>>346909
No, Germany should have surrendered but didn't.
>>346909
Dresden was a war crime
The constant firebombing if Japanese cities between 1942 and 1945 was a war crime
The hypothetical bombing of the US West Coast that the Japanese could easily have conduced but refused to because it was immoral to bomb civilians would have been a war crime too
>>355663
>Dresden was a war crime
True.
>The constant firebombing if Japanese cities between 1942 and 1945 was a war crime
>The hypothetical bombing of the US West Coast that the Japanese could easily have conduced but refused to because it was immoral to bomb civilians would have been a war crime too
..and you fucked it up.
>>355672
Yeah, bombing japanese civilians for 3 years sure wasnt a war crime unlike Dresden since it was done by the USA USA USA, right?
>>346909
War is a crime.
>>355749
Nah. I thought I'd typed "also true" after the second quote. It's the third quote I take issue with.
>>355663
>The hypothetical bombing of the US West Coast that the Japanese could easily have conduced but refused to because it was immoral to bomb civilians
Ok, are you stupid, or just severely ignorant? If the Japanese wanted to bomb, say, San Francisco, you'd have to go about 7,500 kilometers from Kwajalein (your closest base) which means carriers only. And being sent into the heart of U.S. defenses, with lots and lots of land based planes around to beat you up. And even if you somehow fought through them or dodged around them, you've only got 6 fleet carriers that can make that trip, who between them carry about 30-40 tiny bombers apiece.
You'd be lucky if you blew up 12 buildings with that.
Plus, you know, they bombed plenty of civilians in China, the Phillipines, and the NEI; I don't think they had moral compunctions about bombing civilian targets.
>>346909
It is unpleasant to think about all those women and children immolated, horrifically injured, made homeless etc. yet at the same time this was the path that Germany chose for itself when it tried similar tactics on the UK.
The difference being that the RAF was much more successful and capable than the Luftwaffe at this type of thing.
>>355949
>Implying they targeted Chinese civilians centers and wernt just trying to get at the Nationalists and Communists
>>357019
See Rape of Nanking. What makes you think they wouldn't bomb civilians?
>>357182
>Implying Grolious Nippon would "Rape" of Nanking
>Implying Grolious Nippon courd "lost" the war
>Implying Grolious Nippon can ever do wrong
Guy's just going to redefine all targets to equal "not warcrime".
>>346909
IIRC two Waffen SS panzer divisions transited through not too long before. That alone warrants the bombing.
>>355663
>because it was immoral to bomb civilians
I have an extremely hard time believing the Japanese military opted not to do something for the sake of morality. Fuck's sake.
It was a war crime. The Germans fucking deserved it though, and they should remember it lest they get uppity again.
>>346909
daily reminder that more civilians died in the air raids on Stalingrad in the week prior to the battle starting there than died from the bombing of Dresden
>>349374
>painless
>quick
I'd rather have my balls crunched by a car than get mixed up with Chlorine gas or mustard has.
>>347701
>only 25,000 people died
Bull fucking shit
>>355663
>the army responsible for the deaths of millions of Chinese civilians didn't bomb the west coast because it would have been immoral
ayyy
>>346916
>>358139
What makes you call bullshit? That would put it at around the same proportion of the city's population killed as most other strategic bombing raids.
Do you particularly doubt Gomorrah's 58,000 killed? I would remind you that Hamburg was bombed longer, with more tonnage, in dryer weather, and was a larger and more densely populated city.
What basis are you using to call "bullshit"?
>>346909
Morally yes, but by that point in the war nobody really cared anymore.
The only reason they got away with it unscathed was because they didn't lose.
>>346909
shouldent all the firebombings in japan be considered for war crimes instead?
i mean indivudialy most of these bombings killed more then the dresden bombing and the nukes but no one ever seems to rember them
>>347701
Savage
>>359768
>tfw watching this while listening to Zombie by the Cranberries
>>346937
>>Rotterdam wasn't a war crime : DDDD
>>firebombing London wasnt a war crime :DDD
>>OMG LE AMERICA BOMBED SOME CITIES WITH ART WORST DAY OF MY LIFE
literally you
>>360076
listen to better music
>target civilians to win a war with germany is fine
>omg those dirty pakis are targeting civilians fucking terrorist scum
>>362285
Why the meme arrows, both of those statements are correct, except that it's not pakis, but islamists of all ethnicities.
