>neolithic agricultural revolution
>not the most important event in human history
>>342791
You mean neolithic beta uprising senpai
>>342791
>not the worst event in human history
>>342798
Jeryd Dyamunds, pls go
>>342802
Was he actually anti agriculture? I'm reluctant to read him as he seems a little pop his.
>>342810
>Was he actually anti agriculture?
hes anti history
>>342791
>you will never impress a neolithic agriculture babe by showing her you can fix her mortar and pestle
>>342810
Yes. He wrote something in the late 70's called The Biggest Mistake. And no, he wasn't referencing the 4th Crusade, in fact I doubt he even knows what that is.
>>342817
>or replace it with the full set you stole from those plebs in the Mage's Guild in Caldera
Arrrr, those temple building, tax collecting, walls raising farmers, they enslave themselves, eating sandy bread and spitting teeth, getting fat and dying of rectal cancer.
Nothing like us free folk, with the wind in our hair, riding all day, lean in body and big in spirit, chewing on jerky and nuts, and dying a warriors death before the gods of the open sky.
What was that made up quote often attributed to a native american chief, something about hunting and fishing, and civilization.
>>342837
This?
>>342845
No, it was more in the line of the white man replacing getting up late, going to fish, napping, going to hunt with mates, coming home to dance with girls, smoking and going to bed, with getting up to an alarm clock, working as a mercenary for some business, coming home to watch TV and go to bed, and calling it progress.
>>342845
>muh hippie shit
OH FUCK IT'S A GRIZZLY
>>342845
this gave me douche chills.
>>342845
>pic
2deep4me
Can you even call that a single event? It took thousands of years across the entire world.
>>342791
That was 6,000 years before Adam was Created. Obviously those farmers were dinosaurs.
>>342860
Wasn't shitting on you tho m8erson.
>hunterer/gatherers had less health problems
Let's see Jyred Dumond hunt a fucking buffalo with a 4-inch splinter in his left leg. Fucking moronic shit.
>>342870
Do you understand averages?
this was a study of 800 skeletons all from the same area
>early farmers paid a price for their new-found livelihood. Compared to the hunter-gatherers who preceded them, the farmers had a nearly 50 per cent increase in enamel defects indicative of malnutrition, a fourfold increase in iron-deficiency anemia (evidenced by a bone condition called porotic hyperostosis), a theefold rise in bone lesions reflecting infectious disease in general, and an increase in degenerative conditions of the spine, probably reflecting a lot of hard physical labor. "Life expectancy at birth in the pre-agricultural community was bout twenty-six years," says Armelagos, "but in the post-agricultural community it was nineteen years. So these episodes of nutritional stress and infectious disease were seriously affecting their ability to survive.
Pretty sure that would be the birth of humanity.
>>342885
Sauce it mah fucka.
And even EVEN if you are right, look at how hunterer-gatherer tribes live like today. Complete and utter savagery.
>>342860
That's fine an all, but there was one thing that all the work at the farms could provide in large qualities that hunter/gatherers didn't: Alcohol.
>>342860
>Also pretty sure the gist was hunter gatherers had less health problems, more time to chill, taller etc than early farmers, eg would you rather be a medieval serf/dirt farmer in africa or a hunter gatherer?
>>342870
>>342885
It's clear that Jewrad Diamond is just a limpwristed beta faggot that doesn't lift and eat right
>>342897
Seems like it was the combined results from multiple studies by George Armelagos at Dickson Mounds, it was actually from that jared diamond paper the other anon mentioned
>>342913
The other anon is actually me. The only thing this quote directs me to is the paper. So in fact, he's trying to prove that the fucking paper is right by using the paper. Inbred fucking shit. I have to wonder though, how did he come up with this numbers? How did he know that some skeletons were those of gatherers and some of pleb-ass diseased-ridden sickly ugly stinky farmers? Did they bury themselves with team crests, like fucking Ugu-Bugu Hunters and Chingy-Bingy Barleys?
>>342897
It's all mentioned under health and lifestyle on the wiki for that site
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickson_Mounds
>>342933
>he's trying to prove that the fucking paper is right by using the paper
Nigga what, more like discussing the paper by referencing the paper
also do you know that when you dig a hole it gets older the further down you get ffs
>>342939
Right. I'd like to see something that proves it was a worldwide effect, not the fact that some Indians stopped hunting buffalo and started eating maize so their bodies shut down. Also
>From 1175 onward to about 1350, the population size expanded significantly and developed complex permanent settlements.[10] These changes can be attributed to the increased reliance on agriculture and expansion of long-distance trade during this period.
>>342949
Are you actually arguing in favor of the paper?
![Hb4DBJT[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/I6LbfW7.jpg "Hb4DBJT[1].jpg")
>>342845
>>342837
have this one instead
>>342851
I don't think this is what you are talking about but it's a similar thing to what you're describing
An American businessman was at a pier in a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellow-fin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.
The Mexican replied only a little while.
The American then asked why didn't he stay out longer and catch more fish?
The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs. The American then asked the Mexican how he spent the rest of his time.
The Mexican fisherman said, "I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life, senor."
The American scoffed, "I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and, with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution.
"You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually NYC where you will run your expanding enterprise."
(1/2)
>>342972
(2/2)
The Mexican fisherman asked, "But senor, how long will this all take?"
The American replied, "15-20 years."
"But what then, senor?" asked the Mexican.
The American laughed, and said, "That's the best part! When the time is right, you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public. You'll become very rich, you would make millions!"
"Millions, senor?" replied the Mexican. "Then what?"
The American said, "Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos."
>>342967
Is that Chief Dan George in the pic tho? He was fucking GOAT in Josey Wales
>>342959
No one dispute that agriculture leads to larger population size, which leads to more complex society
I'm just saying that there is evidence that one effect of adopting agriculture can be decreased health across multiple categories on average, which does make sense, as evolutionary selection pressures on humans until the agricultural revolution occurred in relation to a hunter gatherer lifestyle
I have read other similar finding from various regions, but if you want more examples feel free to look them up yourself
>>342980
Common sense is telling me and you that while various health problems may appear due to the diet swap, a shitload of people died while hunting/gathering shit.
The population increase, hindered by the decline in life expectancy, can only suggest one thing: hunting/gathering takes its toll in a far different shape on the numbers of a settlement.
>>342993
Yea of course, what are you saying though people die?
Sure instead of getting eaten by a crocodile/alligator while fishing you might die from the plague sweeping through a city, or you might die in a car accident, same outcome
Western life today > hunter-gatherer life > Shithole life today > ancient/medieval life
Itt
>most or all hunter gatherers opted for megafauna instead of fish and bivalves
>hunting and gathering is the only alternative to sedentary agriculture
>>342798
You ever read any Zerzan?
>>342974
You forgot "and without worrying at the end of the day what would happen to them if you were to suddenly die".
>>342899
Psilocybes, man. Hunter gatherers also had limited knowledge concerning fermentation, so it wasn't like they had no concept of alcohol.
>>342992
What if I want more than "muh simple life"?
Jesus, just fuck off no one is forced to value the same shit as you.
>>343457
if you're able to decide then it's a legit path to follow.
but in western civilizations is pretty hard to follow any other path besides the capitalist one
>want to build a house and live a simple life? sure, just buy us the land where you want to settle, pay us for a permit to chop trees and pay us for a license to hunt animals. once you did that you will be able to live a simple life capitalism-free for "free"
>>343446
Not yet, but he looks interesting.
My last three books were The Art of Not Being Governed by James Scott, The Evolution of Human Societies by Allen Johnson and Timothy Earle, and Understanding Early Civilizations by Bruce Trigger. Scott's book seemed too centered on too neat a thesis for me to really trust it, but I don't have enough general knowledge of the topic to really get where he's stretching things. Still, the other two seem like mostly credible survey-level stuff discussing numerous groups, and they mostly back up that at least early states were pretty shit to live in.
I'm interested in the transition into sedentary agriculture and early states from everything that came before, and in those groups that didn't make the transition for whatever reason. I probably need to do more reading on the agricultural revolution itself at some point, but I haven't quite gotten around to it.
