"I heard that through the town he went,
And heathen widows' wild lament
Resounded in the empty halls;
For every townsman flies or falls."
General crusade thread. Was it a christian victory or not?
>>342166
>christian
>victory
>>342166
They had some impressive military feats, but it was ultimately a failure as they were driven out of the Levant.
> Was it a christian victory or not?
In the short term - it sorta was. In the long term they fucked up things and practically destroyed the only viable Christian state in the region, resulting in the eventual rise of Ottomans and their conquest of the rest of Asia Minor, Greece, Balkans, Hungary, Romania, all the way up to the sieges of Vienna. So yeah, christian victory my ass.
>>342166
>first crusade was nothing more than peasants going full retard
>killed more Christians than Muslims
>didn't achieve their goal
>>342217
First Crusade was the only Middle East crusade to achieve its initial goal, actually.
>>342217
John Green isn't a real history source son
>>342166
The hilarity of the conquest and subsequent sack of Jerusalem during the first crusade is that the crusaders just assumed all the brown people living there were Muslims, even though the vast majority of the population was Christian.
Also, daily reminder that Venetians are the scum of the earth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkx_gCylH34
WE WUZ QINGZ N SHIET
>>342243
People complain about the Jews, but Venice Jewed harder then any Jew ever did.
>>342228
To the complete and utter surprise of everyone, including the crusaders themselves.
>>342166
>victory
Depends a lot. Especially with how you define their goals which vary far too much to really pin it on one. I'd say, yeah. Particularly the Reconquista and Third Crusade. People seem to forget that the whole ordeal started because of pilgrimage rights, the Treaty of Jaffa got them that, so why wouldn't they be happy? They got plenty of trade and exposure during their time holding the crusader states and improved the efficiency and profits of the region, the decline during the Mongol invasion wasn't all too appealing and after a while, the kings wanted to go home. They got the military victory, but didn't want to stay.
Oh and that poem doesn't seem very accurate to the period.
>>342211
>byzantium dindu nuffin
They had it coming. Not like the empire was doing particularly well during the time either.
>>342211
>they fucked up things and practically destroyed the only viable Christian state in the region
That state fucked itself beyond saving. Byzantium was collapsing sy the beginning of 13th century.
The Fourth Crusade was nothing but a check call. And it ironically prolonged the lifetime of the Byzantine civilization by temporarily shifting its centre of gravity back into Anatolia.
>>342328
>>342342
> THEY WER GOOD BOYS
> DIDND DO NUFFIN
It was "beyond saving" many times from 7th century on, being virtually reduced to Constantinople and its outskirts, still it managed to survived and returned to its glory by 11th century. Manzikert was a serious blow, but it wasn't fatal until the Empire held the City, and Balkans were under control. The City was the key to survive, and Crusaders made the fatal blow by capturing and pillaging it, fracturing the Empire into duchies and despotates and causing the rise of Serbia and Second Bulgaria empire.
>And it ironically prolonged the lifetime of the Byzantine civilization by temporarily shifting its centre of gravity back into Anatolia.
What "centre of gravity"? Byzantine survived that long thanks to Mongols and despite Latins.
>>342389
Dude, Byzantium at the turn of 13th century was collapsing. One after another provinces were breaking off. Cyprus, Bulgaria, Albania, Pontos to name a few. While this breakup is usually erroneously listed among the results of the Fourth Crusade, it actually happened before. The central government was completely ineffective and unable to react. On top of that, the Seljuks renewed their push forward and captured some productive districts, reversing all gains of Manuel I not yet lost after Myriokephalon. It was the deepest crisis Byzantium experienced up to that date. It was in deep shit before, true. It lived through crushing military disasters. But never before parts of the Empire wanted to break away.
Yes, the Fourth Crusade ironically prolonged the Byzantine civilization. Why? Because it forced the shift of Byzantine attention back where it should have been in the first place - into Asia Minor where the bulk of Byzantine strength was focused.
And the idea that Mongols prolonged Byzantium of truly laughable, considering that it was Mongols who pushed various Turkic nomads (including the predecessors of the Ottomans) into Asia Minor and initiated the Second Bayelik Period which marked the final collapse of Christian culture in Anatolia.
the crusaders were basically glorified niggers.
