Often times you will mention a Western male (usually white) bringing up a woman's tallness as her main point of beauty, and emphasizing the attraction of her slim figure (regardless of actual shape or composition) as her main point. When I look at old standards of beauty in Europe for centuries it was usually more shapely or bigger women. Why and how did it change?
Pic related. Though this is the late Victorian/Edwardian standard that emphasized the curves more than usual, but it still shows that curvy shapes in general we preferred even up to the 20's where erotica featured heftier or shapelier women.
I see the changes in the 70's but I'm not sure why. A lot of modern European men are repulsed by these bodies from the 50's and 60's glamor girls or not as interested.
>>479209
>tall skinny women
tall and skinny women shows that they do not need to store food, therefore they shows that they have the means to eat whenever they want, contrary to those peasants who are always fat in old age or if they do not work and skinny once they work hard to get food.
now, beauty and wealth are connected, with beauty attracting wealth and wealth attracting beauty. there fore, you have more beautiful women who are thin.
>>479228
That being said, working class beauty standards and middle/upper class standards have always been different. Can we really say all that has changed for the majority of women, especially when we get into non white communities where curves are still numero uno?
>>479303
>>479228
Women have always been more relatively fatter and less toned than men are. For some reason the media is really pushing thin woman-fat man married couples a lot. I'm not sure if this is worse than the past because it puts more pressure on the girl and says its okay for a guy to be a lazy slob and an idiot because "hey, women are better and smarter" hmm..
at least in the past women and men were both expected to look good ,and it was acknowledged women were plumper/weaker, not more athletic and taller like the media has been confusing us for the past 30-40 years
When women and homosexual men took over the fashion industry and decided to push an androgynous teenage twink bodytype more attuned to their own lovemaps rather than the tastes of heterosexual men.
>>479408
/lit/ will get upset at this
>>479209
Testosterone levels in men started declining.
>>479430
/lit/ here, /pol/ doesn't even lift, get fucked
>>479580
>Testosterone levels in men started declining.
Citation needed.
>>479209
>Often times you will mention a Western male (usually white) bringing up a woman's tallness as her main point of beauty
not really???
>>479776
wel we have /lgbt/ now that's a pretty steep decline in the span of just a few years
can you immagine? Treads where everyone is a literal faggot
History didn't begin in the 19th century. The late medieval beauty standard for example was tall, thin, and graceful.
And I don't think that picture you posted is representative of any beauty standard ever.
>>479209
Fashion/beauty standards are cyclical nigger.
>>480099
Anon, those people have always existed and in roughly the same proportions, its just that they don't have to hide nearly as much anymore because muh social equality. You honestly shouldn't feel threatened in any way, and this is coming from a heterosexual male that was a full on lgbt hater when he was a teen.
>>479209
It's too complex to point to one specific thing, there are a lot of factors at play.
Look at how being pale used to be cool because it meant that you could afford not to go outside and later being tan became cool because it meant you could afford leisurely vacations.
Being fat used to mean you're wealthy, now being fat is generally a sign of being poor, dumb and miserable.
Nowadays gymrat bodies are the ideal for both men and women. Your notion of skinny stick figures as the beauty ideal is more 90s than 2010s.
Besides, semi-fat whores like Kim Kardashian are very popular again as well, so you your critique is a few decades behind.
>>479209
that body looks familiar op, except the one you posted looks skinnier.
>>479383
jack sprat could eat no fat
his wife could eat no lean
i have seen plenty of thin man fat woman couples. i think this used to be the norm amongst the poor, so much so that it became a nursery rhyme.
>>479430
go fuck yourself, if you'd actually read the greeks you'd know that being in shape is important.
>>480109
>any beauty standard ever
I said late Victorian/Edwardian.
As for late medieval
>the fashionable lady's look for the bulk of the medieval period was as follows- high forehead, plucked eyebrows, small even teeth, a fair complexion, long neck, narrow chest, low sloping shoulders, high small waist and in some cases, a prominent stomach.
Er nope. Still sounds different.
>>480224
I still see a lot of guys on the internet praising thin bodies. Gymrat is pretty hideous for a woman imo. Very strange since it's masculine to have yet we desire it on women.
Super big ass that looks artificial isnt the same as the mid-late 19th century standard
this thread feels like everyone is 12-19 year olds. For God's sake give me some real answers.
>>480528
It's slim, and certainly not "bigger", "curvier", "heftier", or any of the other euphemisms for fat you've used.
>>480550
With gymrat I mean pic related, not huge bodybuilders or something.
The only guys that genuinely like the skinny emaciated look tend to be be /fa/ types and/or fags in my experience.
>>480557
>expecting a singular simple answer for something as vague and complex as social trends
Sounds like you're twelve yourself.
>>480550
>Super big ass that looks artificial isnt the same as the mid-late 19th century standard
Actually big fake asses were quite the trend back then.
Are you a fat girl, by the way?
This is bullshit. Everyone has always loved big tits and asses.
>>480755
>euphemism of fat
is there something diseased with your type brains that you think when I say plumper I mean an obese chick weighing 300+ pounds?
Plump means plump, it means good development of adipose tissue especially in feminine parts (hips, thighs, breasts, ect), meaning no more than 20 pounds overweight or just that womanly roundness most girls have including the slim ones.
>>480855
That was to emphasize the hips, not the ass. Besides, huge asses like the Hottentot Venus was considered savage and vulgar. Kim Kardashian is NOT a nineteenth century beauty standard.
>>480850
You giving a simple answer has everything to do with your lack of intelligence, not because something is too "complex"
People had lower standards for everything back in the day. Nutrition, dental care, housing, rights, money, transportation.
It's only normal that they were also less picky when it comes to physical beauty.
With the knowledge and possibilities first world people have nowadays our standards in beauty have risen as well.
Pic related looks just like a young woman of today who doesn't exercise and eats like shit, for example. But at the time no one exercises and everyone ate like shit, so it was considered the height of beauty.
Also, keep in mind that what is considered beautiful and what is considered erotic are not quite the same. Current day pornstars tend to look different from current day models.
>>481022
>Current day pornstars tend to look different from current day models.
And neither are the epitome of erotic and beauty.
>>481022
Those tits look a lot like the one you find in late medieval paintings.
>>479209
There's a bioglogical preference that's more or less the same across the world (with the largest difference being that some people prefer breasts over asses) and then there's a cultural preference, which is what has changed. Stockier, more plump women are prefered in places where food is scarce and now that food is readily available all over the civilized world it's more desirable to be in shape rather having a few extra pounds of reserve energy for hard times.
>>481203
>>481218
Argentina confirmed white
>>481222
Iceland confirmed not?
>>481022
>implying you wouldn't smash pic related
>>481022
Looks fine to me. Being overtly picky and coarse about your expectations of women like a lot of men are these days seems a symptom of affeminacy or bitchiness via conditioning of lots of porn/sexualized images of women.
Men back then were literally pure and didnt grow up with internet porn and pizza.
>>479209
M8, there have been very few significant deviations from the baseline "I want to put my dick in that" beauty throughout the years; in works of art from ancient Greece to the Eddas to Rensissance art to pin-up girls there are usually some extremely consistent elements. Fads come and go through the various and sundry social strata and of course there's wiggle room and necessary context (protip: most women are chunkier in Roman pornography because women that looked like that were probably married to someone quite rich and/or powerful - it just made the entire scenario of them getting railed by a slave that much saucier) but by and large the more things change the more they stay the same and some things just plain never go out of style because they're essentially hardwired into men - some princeling can get a diamond-cutter from some bright-eyed peasant girl doing her washing as easily as he can from his stable of top-dollar imported trim and despite androgyny being the order of the day in the fashion industry for decades now the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue still sells like gangbusters every single year.
>36-24-36 or in the neighborhood thereof
>Symmetry
>No physical deformities, especially on the skin
>Beautiful hair
>Feminine demeanor
>Youthful
Pic related somewhat to yours; another example of beauty from the Edwardian.
>>481307
Media is also a large part of it of course, but the point is we're familiar with greater things than they were back than.
Which is both a blessing and a curse.
>>482414
What's so stupid about realising that having a wider frame of reference can lead to both less satisfaction and higher aspiration?
>>482440
It has to do with Hollywood and the images it put out. It just got worse and worse with time going on. Wearing more makeup, having horse faces, and taller bodies doesnt mean better
Sexual dimorphism is better. Therefore a short lady with small waist nice breasts and nice hips is far more ideal
>>482758
I agree desu, only problem is that they get fat when they get older
>>483387
Most people of both sexes get fat when they get older.
>>480846
What's the attraction in boyish shoulder muscles and veiny arms? I think this post is a homosexual shill.
>>482758
You sound like a resentful woman to be honest.
There's plenty of short ladies with small waists, nice tits and nice hips in Hollywood. They just also tend to have flat stomachs, nice faces, nice hair, nice skin et cetera. The men are portrayed with that extra bit of perfection as well, but you never hear people bitching about that.
It seems like you're complaining about a straw man. Your notion of the ayy lmao giraffe idea of beauty is a fashion industry thing as far as I know. And they're not even necessarily seen as beautiful people generally, just as good mannequins as in a thing to hang clothes on.
Pic related is a short lady with small waist nice breasts and nice hips and regarded as one of the ideals of physical beauty today by both men and women.
>>484011
Like it or not, it is a popular way to look now. A lot of girls want to look fit with visual abs and a trained ass and the likes. It's not so much 'gay' as it is gym culture becoming mainstream.
There's still plenty of pudgy women though, so you don't have to worry.
>>484628
gb2rome
>>484543
>169 cm
>short
Really? I mean I understand "not that tall" at 169cm but "short"?
This lady has some killing curves though, that much is true.
>>484628
kek key word there being "want"
The average weight of an American woman is 162 lbs, they're literally fatter than ever.
>>484726
We'll she's not the kind of tall bitch that is complained about by OP at least.
I've never heard of women being dismissed for being short in general to be honest.
I can see a a short man being driven to despair by current beauty standards, but height has never been that important for women. If anything really tall girls get bullied by other girls and shorter men are intimidated by them.
>>484739
Hence the OP.
>>479209
>Often times you will mention a Western male (usually white) bringing up a woman's tallness as her main point of beauty
Really?
Because I see media like fashion magazines doing this, but even that is just to emphasize the skinnyness. Men who actually like specifically taller women seem to be a minority.
And not once have I heard a woman whine about being "too short" because they are seen as cute if nothing else, but it is not uncommon to hear someone embarrassed about the fact that they are taller than most men or that they look "lanky" in heels and so on.
>>479209
Advertisers realized that there was more money to be made by promoting a beauty standard that is impossible to attain. Keep the majority of women (and men) dissatisfied with a representative female body type and they will consume innumerable products promising to help them either meet the new ideal or create the illusion that they have. This of course never works and so there is no limit to the number of fetishized remedies that can be devised and sold by manufacturers.
They have begun more recently to produce the same pathological self-hatred in men, opening vast new markets. They'll end up being just as lucrative.
>>479209
perfectt
>>479209
>>484848
>Sounds like (the women in General) I was talking about. Confuses guys brains enough to think its pure and safe but also lets them know shes a whore enough to show her body off like that
So long as social media exists in the form it does today, this will forever and always be the M.O. for millenial+ aged girls
>>484766
That's bullshit and revisionist shit.
Everyone complains. Men and women aren't that far off you think.
I find this more annoying than nineteenth century sexism because at least most of the men weren't whiny recluses who didn't know how to take care of a family or a woman.
>>484543
I'm not >resentful because I'm noticing a change in trends and preferring the older ones. Christ, what is wrong with you fucks? Why does everything have to be about resent or jealousy because you don't like something? Fuck off with being an internet arm chair psychologist for once you dork.
>>484795
See the following on this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdpucXyZNCM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb_d_VxoeyY
>>484795
I think this is true, but it's also the general effect of media and globalisation. In the 15th century the prettiest girl you had ever seen was the prettiest girl in your village, and the most beautiful place you had ever seen was the creek nearby or something.
Then when photography came around people might have seen some more beautiful women and places in shitty black and white pictures. Then came the movies and magazines. Then better quality movies and magazines and television all day. Now we have the internet where every man can see millions of beautiful women and countless beautiful places in full HD, from all angles, still, moving, 3D et cetera. They can easily look at a hundred new beautiful women a day every day.
No wonder their standards shifted upwards when you've got so much to compare things to.
Exactly the same goes for women, of course.
>>484543
I seen a lot of dudes say she was fat for some reason. Also she was pretty nice in Destiny Era
>>484859
Imagine how much more compliant and acceptable men and women will be if they didn't have others to compare their lovers to
People are just more grumpy now and idealistic. Technology is cancer
>>484859
And now they've got photoshop to create a universe of impossible men and women that we can all fawn over and aspire to.
>>484873
Imagine if other people arrange your marriage for you, you never fuck anyone else and women are covered in public and porn and whorish advertising is forbidden so your wife is literally the most sexy woman you've ever seen.
>>484894
Didn't Greek women have to cover themselves and stay inside while the men chased boipuss around the gymnasium?
>>484855
>I'm not >resentful because I'm noticing a change in trends and preferring the older ones. Christ, what is wrong with you fucks? Why does everything have to be about resent or jealousy because you don't like something? Fuck off with being an internet arm chair psychologist for once you dork.
Depends on why you prefer the older trends? Are you a woman? Do you live up to the current trend?
>>484905
Soon we will all retreat into our little studio apartments and plug in to be with our perfect waifus and husbandos, m8.
We will literally migrate our souls to Plato's world of forms.
>>479228
>who are always fat in old age or if they do not work and skinny once they work hard to get food.
>now, beauty and wealth are connected, with beauty attracting wealth and wealth attracting beauty. there fore, you have more beautiful women who are thin.
>>484905
>photoshop to create a universe of impossible men and women
Christ, people like you. "everyone and everything is fake, and designed to make me feel bad". Im going to take a liberty and just assume you are a woman. Its literally a hallmark of females and woman culture to look at someone "beautiful" and shout "fake, scam, IMPOSSIBLE" because as a rule, women are virtually incapable of discipline and hard work. Its an absolutely mind boggling concept to them. Absolutely. The "modern woman" is laziest,most excuse making, jealous and angry sect of human beings to ever exist
>>483811
Proper diet and working out can solve that,
>>484952
Maybe you didn't see it through all that bitterness you have there but what the anon before you said was not
"ugh all those beautiful people are soo fake"
but rather an addition to the first anon's comment about why standards are changing. I get your point of the whiny ass bitches who call out "photoshop" on anyone they feel is "undefeatably beautiful" or something like that in their minds, but getting that aggressive of just the acknowledgement of the fact that f.ex. many pictures of models in many magazines, advertisement and social media are photoshopped to look better, whether it's the lighting or the waist that gets the do-over? That's just undeniably true.
>>484952
Shut the fuck up emo. It's standard practice for all advertising companies to alter the images of real men and woman to perpetuate a beauty standard unattainable to most people:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17j5QzF3kqE
Simply pointing out this fact in no way discourages the health and maintenance of one's body.
>>484928
>Didn't Greek women have to cover themselves and stay inside
No
>while the men chased boipuss around the gymnasium?
Greek as well as Indian gym's included spaces for men and women, sometimes male and female atheletes/gymgoers would mix, but generally they had their own places to work out. Didn't you see 300 anon , only Athenians where 'boy lover's'. Which do you wanna be aa literal limp wristed dyel faggot? Or a swole badass who gets to fuck Leana Heady?
>>485190
LMFAO sides gone etc. any time anyone even opens their mouth about "sparta or spartans". They were literally a fantasy creation perpetuated by a handful of sources, and Sparta by and large was a traitorous ( to Greece) region of the nation who were near constant conspirators with Persian and foreign interests. If anything "sparta" could contend for the most egregious, nonsensical historical fantasy culture ever imagined.
>>484905
>photoshop to create a universe of impossible men and women that we can all fawn over and aspire to.
I didn't know diet and excercise were photoshopped. If you want someone to look up to then simply don't look up to fakes
This anon,
484905,
Is mostly right ad I only say mostly because I know women who have gotten themselves together and gotten physically fit. The vast majority of women, however, let alone men as well but ive noticed it a bit more with women. don't workout at all. Those people choose to be
> The "modern woman" is laziest,most excuse making, jealous and angry sect of human beings to ever exist,
this. Men included if they don't do anything and just complain as well. These people have no belief in bettering themselves and constantly make excuses, even going so far as to pull others down who want to elevate themselves.
>>485008
>>485050
>Shut the fuck up emo. It's standard practice for all advertising companies to alter the images of real men and woman to perpetuate a beauty standard unattainable to most people
So if you know they do it and that it's bullshit, why follow it?
Simply pointing out this fact in no way discourages the health and maintenance of one's body.
No, but I think that previous anon, although angry was pointing out that those people would rather make excuses and blame those companies instead of first seeing what they can do themselves. On that note I can understand his anger a little as this line of argumentation keeps popping up for not just fitness but nearly everything else and is being done to death as well as forced on everyone else who could give less of a shit . People want to just blame and fingerpoint and bring down others who work hard just because they don't want to try. like SJW's/feminist etc. Women's 'high' physical standards in particular are often blamed on men, when that is false and it is often women themselves who perpetrate them. Knowledge of proper diet and exercise have been around for (cont.)
>>485262
I know that, joke anon, joke
>>485375
(cont.) millennia now and Maria Kang was right. There is no excuse. Aside from maybe crippiling physical deformation/injuries and even then many disable people work out (theres that guy with one arm who was an MMA fighter, the guy with no arms and no legs who gives motivational speeches, etc.) People need to learn to have some fucking agency and stop blaming others for their problems especially when there are people who dohave a right t blame something and when other people might be at fault for what plagues them
>>484905
>Unattainable ideals are bad
Kill yourself.
>>484011
>What's the attraction in boyish shoulder muscles and veiny arms? I think this post is a homosexual shill.
Some /fit/ guys, (like me) like it and especially appreciate it when a woman knows how to/does diet and resistance train. It shows she can stick with something for the long term/keep commitments (especially important when looking for an ltr) and is into fitness/sports(gives you a bit more in common/talk about) and staying healthy
>>485554
This is a good point, someone's body is not merely a physical thing but is also a representation of that person's character, lifestyle and values.
That's also why I can't take people who are into tanning or tattoos seriously.
>>479580
>from lit
>dumb as fuck
Have fun understanding everything through pejorative meme ideology
>>485722
>implying you can ever be free of ideology
my god
>>481218
lmfao at best korea
absolute savages
>>482015
WELP broke my nofap
The Egyptian beauty standard was pretty close to the one we have today right? I'm thinking Sports Illustrated type girls with very healthy and fit bodies, with simple clothing showing off the body form. It's kind of cool.
>>485903
Only one streaming porn there is Dennis Rodman so it makes sense.
>>485262
is that jarl 'literally did nothing wrong whatsoever' borg?
>>486459
I am fairly certain the North Korean regime uses internet access mostly for porn, considering their method of rule.
>>486473
and pirating disney movies
>>486378
>The Egyptian beauty standard was pretty close to the one we have today right
It was whatever your sister looked like
>>485764
>implying I said anything about being absolutely "free" from ideology
>>479209
>A lot of modern European men are repulsed by these bodies
Show me these men and I'll show you faggots
>>487943
Everyone must understand everything through pejorative meme ideology.
>>487973
op is a fat girl who is creating a straw man to feel better about herself, i wouldn't take these claims seriously.
Head on over to /fit/ for some HIGH TEST threads
>>479776
https://www.endocrine.org/news-room/press-release-archives/2006/testosterone_lvls_in_men_decline
As well as an undeniable link that moving out of blue collar work leads to less muscle mass in a man meaning he produces less testosterone.
Get fucked, with your everything is fine attitude. Fiddle while our Rome burns.
>>489715
>Fiddle while our Rome burns.
spot on lad, these are great times
