![Wenceslas_Hollar_-_Ireland_(State_2)[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/HcI6LPU.jpg "Wenceslas_Hollar_-_Ireland_(State_2)[1].jpg")
Invited: anyone who wants to discuss the history of Ireland from the normal invasion to 1990. My particular interest is 19th century Irish History and 20th century leading up to partition, but pre-19th century / troubles discussion is hardly going to be
READING MATERIAL:
>Robert Kee's
"Ireland, a History"
"A The Green Flag"
>D. George Boyce's
"Nationalism in Ireland"
>R. Foster's
"Modern Ireland 1600-1972"
WHAT TO WATCH:
>Robert Kee's "Ireland - A Television History"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP2lKq0mkjY&list=PL-NlJbmY3woh0SDUIy2ION2-DWyoz8oxY
>BBC's "The Story of Ireland"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN0ndWAgA6o&list=PLDB7C584D70B31973
Also, if you think you're original by talking about the potato famine or saying "cromwell did nothing wrong" then please think again.
If nobody responds, while I'll be sad, I'll probably contribute with a summary of the key figures throughout the 19th century and leave it at that.
>>320731
cromwell did nothing wrong and the potato famine was best years of my life when i was exporting fine irish grain to british markets as mcs starved outside my manor
Cromwell did nothing wrong, potato famine GOAT
Now that that's over with, redpill me on irish history OP
>from the normal invasion to 1990
But anon, my speciality is before the norman invasion
reeeeeeeee
>>320801
FUCKING NORMANS
GET OUT OF MY HISTORY
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Strongbow
>>320731
Any recommended books or series on 1798 OP?
>>320731
But the pre-norman period is the best.
>>320856
check pic theres a book on it
>>320881
This
Normans ruin everything
>oh fuck
>I've made a huge mistake
>a-at least I'll get some lands and titles out of it right guys? haha
How can one man be so based?
>>320885
sound
![6-wolfe-tone-a[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/oeSYYX2.jpg "6-wolfe-tone-a[1].jpg")
Supplementary documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZkJc1RdK6Q
Let's start with this bad arse motherfucker right here. His name is wolfe tone. That's right, his name is fucking WOLFE. you know he's going to be a motherfucking complete legend when you hear that fucking name. So this guy's a presbyterian, and inspired by the War of Independence in america, formed a society called the United Irishmen. This was a coalition of upper class protestants and middle class catholics - which is, when you consider Ireland at the present, or simply the fact that this was the tail end of the 18th century, is extremely unlikely. - Their goal? A United, Secular, Independent Irish Republic
This guy's an extremely gifted speaker, he studied law at Trinity College Dublin, he was an avid member of the Debating Club and was an idealist. Now, originally, the United Irishmen was fairly constitutional and was a political organisation. But then, triggered by the French Revolution and the fact that there was limited hope for universal suffrage the United Irishmen became a rebellious organisation, and wolfe tone organised an alliance with France.
The French army of 11,000, got incredibly close to Ireland, (enough so that Wolfe said he could "throw a biscuit to the shore) but the weather turned against them and they had to sail home. At home, numerous arrests of the United Irishmen leadership threw them into disarray and the rebellions became disorganised, degenerated, and turned into a massacre and when the french eventually did land, they were crushed, and wolfe was captured. He said, after being arrested, "For a fair and open war I was prepared; if that has degenerated into a system of assassination, massacre, and plunder I do again most sincerely lament it"
But, Wolfe had one last act of badassery. When he was sentenced to death, he instead cut his own throat, and, when told by his doctor that if he were to talk too much, he would die, he said, "So Be it.", and died.
>>320731
Normans truly are the bastard offspring of Europe.
Absolutely destroyed glorious Anglo-Saxon culture and ruined Ireland for a thousand years.
Also fuck Harold Godwinson for falling for literally the oldest strategy in history at Hastings and damning Britain forever.
>>320910
Never EVER trust a perfidious Leinsterman.
The Uí Chonchobhair are the rightful kings of Ireland.
>>320920
You almost baited me, m8.
>>320966
That isn't the rightful ruling dynasty of Ireland.
>>320983
Get fucked Uí Néill faggot, Ruaidhrí was the last high king.
>>321015
The worst thing about Ui Chonchobhair fags is that they're literally the LEAST relevant of all the Irish dynasties. So totally irrelevant I'd nominate the Stuarts make a comeback before one of those cunts is king.
Ui Neill's on the other hand have their relevance proven by the fact they have product placement on all GAA tops.
>>321020
>Munster has and always will be best province
Leath Mogha isn't even Ireland really.
![Untitled-01-10[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/pW0RT5U.jpg "Untitled-01-10[1].jpg")
A little important note - after the 1798 rebellion, the 1801 act of union was brought in due to the scare it could happen again, it was too close to call for the british, so in order to stop this from happening again, they had the Dublin Parliament abolished and merged into the House of Commons in London. It was expected that Catholic Emancipation would be brought in, which will become important later (basically allowing catholics to hold seats)
Robert Emmet. Now, this guy, honestly, is a bit of a fuck up. But, in traditional Martyr manner, he turns a collossal fuckup into a major victory.
He too was a protestant who attended trinity, and was a United Irishman who reformed it after the failed rebellion to lead another rebellion. He made many arms and explosives in Dublin and managed to conceal his plans of rebellion unlike the one in 1798. However, an explosive in one of these factories forced him to put forward his plans for rebellion lest they be discovered.
In 1798, they raised 50,000 men. In this 1803 rebellion, they raised.. 300. - Easily crushed. Now you should understand why I said it was a fuckup. Pearse has said, "No failure, judged as the world judges these things, was ever more complete, more pathetic, than Emmet's". However, all was not lost.
Emmet was an extremely gifted speaker, and at his trial, he had a speech, which is sad in two ways. 1) I can not describe it in words alone. Below is a youtube link to an extract of this speech. 2) If you search up Emmet's speech on youtube, fucking lego movie is there first. FUCKING NORMIES. Ahem. Listen to, or read, that fucking speech. It's inspiring, and is pretty much the only reason he's relevant.
http://www.robertemmet.org/speech.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPJWMprOrlo
>>321110
I have but one request to ask at my departure from this world--it is the charity of its silence! Let no man write my epitaph: for as no man who knows my motives dare now vindicate them. let not prejudice or ignorance asperse them. Let them and me repose in obscurity and peace, and my tomb remain uninscribed, until other times, and other men, can do justice to my character; when my country takes her place among the nations of the earth, then, and not till then, let my epitaph be written. I have done.
>>321045
least relevant, most based
Clontarf worst day of my life.
![MTE5NDg0MDU0OTgzNTc1MDU1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Jul2j3u.jpg "MTE5NDg0MDU0OTgzNTc1MDU1[1].jpg")
Most of Grattan's achievements were in the 17th century, so it's unfair to view him in only an 18th century light, but hey, someone who knows more about him in that era could tell you more.
So, Act of Union passed in 1801. Everyone's sitting around waiting for a few things to be fixed. First of all; the official church is the church of Ireland, which is anglican. - The majority religion in Ireland is Catholic, but there is a sizeable minority presbyterian in the north, both of which are unhappy at having to pay a "tithe" (a tax going to the church) to a church that represents a very small minority of the population. Catholics are disallowed from holding seats in parliament, and they've been waiting a while for that to be fixed and it just hasn't came about.
In pops Henry Grattan, another Protestant. He campaigns for Catholic Emancipation in the Houses of Parliament, using rhetoric and debate trying to convince people to vote in his favour. Unfortunately for him, they were very much opposed at the outset. He formed pressure groups such as the Catholic Association but there really was no mass movement. - This was made worse by the fact that in 1808, he offered the british government a veto on Episcopal (church) appointments, in order to try and convince them that the catholic MPs would not be disloyal. This was unsuccessful, and turned the catholic church against his campaign. Eventually, his campaigning in the house of commons paid off, but it was after he died. his 1819 bill was carried on by plunkett and passed with a majority in the house of commons but the FUCKING HOUSE OF LORDS FUCK YOU (this will become a recurring theme) veto'd the bill and shot it down.
When I think of Grattan, I think of the little train that could. He tried his best, that's what you can say for him.
>you will never be as passionate about anything as this anon is about Ireland
![Daniel_O'Connell_-_Project_Gutenberg_13103[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/b5ApObw.jpg "Daniel_O'Connell_-_Project_Gutenberg_13103[1].jpg")
DANIEL O'CONNELL is best described as an ABSOLUTE FUCKING MADMAN.
So basically, he took the foundations for Catholic Emancipation that Grattan'd laid, and turned it into a mass movement. He recruited the MOTHER FUCKING CATHOLIC CHURCH (Peel described this as a 'powerful combination'. Yeah, no shit, Peel.) to collect his money and lead his New Catholic Association (the old one wasn't cool enough for O'Connell.) This collected him £35,000, which is the equivalent of £3m in today's money. He used powerful propaganda, rallies, and posters to gain support, and, exploiting the british government's instability, he ran for election in 1828.
"But, Hold on", I hear you say "How can he run for election if he's a catholic and they are banned from holding a seat"
WELL GUESS WHAT MOTHERFUCKERS. THERE'S NO RULE AGAINST RUNNING FOR THE SEAT, JUST HOLDING IT. A few months later, the catholic relief act was passed because the prime minister told the house of lords to go fuck themselves as he didn't want to deal with a rebellion (FUCK YOU HOUSE OF LORDS)
And it all goes downhill from here. I believe there is only so much of an absolute madman you can be. He now shifted his focus to a complete repeal of the act of union, giving Ireland their own parliament. This was not popular in Britain. He returned 39 "repealers" in 1832, but his repeal bill in 1834 was voted down 532-38, so he instead tried to reform the system instead, and formed an alliance with the liberals, called the Lichfield House Compact. It was pretty shit overall, with a few token gestures but little of substance. Then at Clontarf, a famous battle site, he planned to hold a rally, which was banned. His mass movement hit a brick wall. - He could have still held it, but he chose not to because he stopped being a madman. The final nail in the coffin of Repeal was the Famine, which to sum up, was pretty shit.
Here's a comedy video that I think you might appreciate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SNaXeBbJv0
![1024px-The_Widow_McCormack's_House,_Near_Ballingarry[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/OJZCqFB.jpg "1024px-The_Widow_McCormack's_House,_Near_Ballingarry[1].jpg")
So in Daniel O'Conell's Repeal Association, there were a few groups. The two that are important today are the Catholic church and the Young Irelanders.
These two didn't get on. the Young Irelanders were like "If this whole constitutional shit doesn't work let's kill the brits" and the Catholic church was all like "dude peace lmao". This led to the Young Irelanders being expelled from the repeal association because Daniel O'Connell doesn't take no division and he's got the catholic church as his bitch so he has to take their side.
These guys were, as Lyons has said, "Romantic Idealists, completely out of touch with the world of reality."
They also wrote poems. Here's an example of probably their most famous https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88-qgHh31bw
Back to the out of touch with the world of reality thing. Their leader, Mitchell, was arrested, so they led a rebellion out of desperation. Now you think Emmett's 300 was a fuck up? these guys fielded fifty. FIFTY. Nigga you couldn't even collapse syria with that many never mind the british empire.
They had one battle, quite possibly the best name of a battle in history. "The Battle of Widow McCormack's cabbage plot."
but yeah, these guys were fuck ups, but you gotta appreciate their poetry I guess
I hope at least one guy is reading these.
Americans, you can appreciate these guys. After the Famine and the mass emigration, discontented Irishmen went all over, especially to the US. They formed secret societies bitching about the british, and named themselves after the Fianna, the legendary band of warriors led by Finn McCool.
They modelled themselves after the United Irishmen, and were a secular organisation. Surprising absolutely nobody, this pissed off the catholic church, leading to vocal opposition to them from Cardinal Cullen, who said that they would lead to "Ruin and Desolation."
Unfortunately, there was rivalries in the fenians, some of them wanting a rebellion in Ireland, some of them not wanting one, and divisions between the Irish Fenians and the American ones. So, the American ones decided to act reasonably, pace themselves, and, with the intention of creating an independent Irish Republic, they...
invaded Canada, retreated back to america, where the american army took their guns. That was pretty fucking rude,does the second amendment mean nothing to those guys? Back home, there were a few notable events. In Manchester, some fenians were executed, increasing mass support,but their attempt at a rebellion was crushed due to informers. They had 75,000 members, but very few people joined the revolt. Nevertheless, the fenians were effective at getting Ireland on the Agenda, leading Gladstone to say "My mission is to pacify Ireland.", and some indeed ran for parliament in "the new departure", while at the EXACT SAME TIME, running a dynamite campaign against britain. "I do not know how dynamite could be put to better use than in blowing up the British Empire" - O'Donovan Rossa, elected MP in 1869.
Were these guys successful? nah, probably not, there was no Irish Republic. But what they did get, was Ireland on the Agenda, and our next two prominent figures.
![Battle_of_Ridgeway[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/sogX7G3.jpg "Battle_of_Ridgeway[1].jpg")
>>321496
forgot image
>>321496
>I hope at least one guy is reading these.
yep
![Portrait_of_Isaac_Butt[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/dFbQQyJ.jpg "Portrait_of_Isaac_Butt[1].jpg")
Yes, that's his fucking name. Isaac Fucking Butt. Previously a Barrister, Orangeman and a Unionist, he realised during the famine that perhaps this whole union thing wasn't actually all it's cracked up to be. He was to be a representative of the fenians in parliament and also to make the case for Home Rule (Repeal 2, electric boogaloo) & Land Reform.
He was an indifferent leader who tolerated divisions in his party. He attempted to get what he wanted by talking reasonably to the british and explaining why it's a good thing, which went predictably (fuck all happened).
But due to good old gladstone's mission, and how people realised "do you think Ireland would be bombing us if there was nothing wrong there?" the 1870 land act was passed, which provided the first of the three F's, Free sale, but none of the others.
The three Fs, demanded in 1850 -
>Free sale - if a tenant paid for improvements to the property he was renting, that was his to sell, not the landlord's
>Fixity of Tenure - so long as bills were paid, you can't get evicted.
>Fair rent - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg5SwyTvAHw - the government gets to say "hold on a second lads that's pretty fuckin' exploitative you gotta calm your shit."
"The Peak of Butt's Achievements" (Kee) was the 59 seats Butt returned in 1874. That's out of the 105 total given to Ireland- A majority. This symbolised the death of the Protestant Ascendancy, and they could now say they speak for the majority of Irish People. Finally, as a nice wee segue from Thornley, "Butt had made possible the political phenomena of Parnell."
That's our next guy, Parnell. He's one sexy motherfucker.
![Charles_Stewart_Parnell_-_Brady-Handy[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/GB063m4.jpg "Charles_Stewart_Parnell_-_Brady-Handy[1].jpg")
Pic related is Parnell. Would you? I know I would. [spoiler]so would Kitty O'Shea[/spoiler]
An Upper Class Anglo-Irish Protestant, with a wealthy estate, he was the last person you'd expect to be representing Ireland. But Parnell didn't care. He, like O'Connell, was an ABSOLUTE FUCKING MADMAN
How did Parnell appear on the scene? Well, he was approached by the Fenians due to his claim in parliament that the fenians who were executed in manchester for killing a policeman did nothing wrong. Now, Parnell, deciding to be a MADMAN, used this tactic called "obstructionism." What's Obstructionism? Today in the united states the most famous form of it is known as "Fillibustering.", but Parnell didn't obstruct bills he didn't like, oh no. You want to talk about a problem in Wales? He stands up, and, for as long as he's standing, by parliamentary rules, he's not allowed to be interrupted. So, fuck wales, Ireland needs on the agenda. Parnell was like that one guy who fills YLYL threads on /b/ with irrelevant pictures in order to say "fuck you, none of you are funny." On one occasion, he and a few other MPs spoke for FOURTY TWO CONSECUTIVE HOURS. That's as many as six sevens, and that's wonderful.
He was ruthlessly pragmatic, and mobilised the Land League, which had over 200,000 members in the first two years, against landlords. I don't have the room to talk about all the great things the land league did, but it was extremely successful, and I urge you to read about the famous Boycott, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott#Etymology - from where the word gets its name.
So, this absolute madman used lots of tactics to get the 1881 land act, granting the other two of the three Fs, but does he settle for that? No. Of course not. He's an absolute MADMAN. and gets himself FUCKING ARRESTED saying "we demanded this shit back in 1850, and you expect the tenants to pay their overdue debnts? Fuck off" In 1882, the arrears act was passed, annulling many debts, and he was released(1/2)
HURRY UP AND GET TO 1916
>>320731
Fucking brilliant op, not irish but this thread is giving me the impression that the past 300 years of irish history can be summed up by the simple phrase of; fuck the british up their stupid fucking asses and fuck anybody who even looks like them
![12_17_9_27_1891-last-speech-of-Parnell-and-KittyOShea[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/yvVXtuZ.jpg "12_17_9_27_1891-last-speech-of-Parnell-and-KittyOShea[1].jpg")
>>321750
You may have read that last post and thought, "who the fuck is Kitty O'Shea?", and disregarded it as some obscure Irish meme. We'll get to her later, but she is important, sadly. Think of her as the Yoko Ono of the IPP for now, though.
in 1885, there was a hung parliament, which basically means no party had a majority. Parnell had the balance of power,with 85/105 seats so he played the two parties off eachother to achieve as much as he could for Ireland. He got the Ashbourne Act of 1885, allowing tenants to buy their land from the landlord at a heavily subsidised government loan.
Was that enough for Charlie "THE MADMAN" Parnell? No, of course not. He only managed to convince Gladstone to support fucking home rule, only defeated by 30 votes. (compare to Daniel O'Connell's Repeal bill >>321318 532-38), and managed to create an umbrella movement of practically everybody from the fenians to the catholic church with his Home Rule League.
Parnell was called "The Uncrowned King of Ireland.", and of course, every king needs a wife. That "wife" was Kittyy O'Shea. The fact she was already married did not much concern Parnell. They'd been in an affair for years. This does not bode well in Victorian Britain, and when Captain O'Shea filed for divorce and listed Parnell as the reason, his party and Gladstone were quick to turn on him. - " A Vote for Parnell is a vote for Adultery"
He was narrowly re-elected as party leader, and then Gladstone said that if Parnell did not step down, he could not ally with the IPP. So, the party ousted him, and he split the party into Parnellites and anti-Parnellites. Catherine O'Shea divorced Captain O'Shea and married Parnell, but their marriage didn't last long, and after returning from a rally in the rain to see his wife in England, he died. The official reason was Pneumonia, but I've heard it said that the reason he died was "He died of a broken heart, for the country he loved so much had betrayed him." ;___;7
>>321862
>Slandering great parnell
I'm still butthurt sham.
>>320731
The Irish are nothing but a race of paedophiles and pederasts.
The sea should reclaim the island, the people are bastards.
What do you think of the so-called Irish Pseudohistory?
>>321911
The sea is on our side though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAiYLTiBiDk
>>321911
Fuck you oscar wilde you dick in the ass gay fucktard.
Why don't you take your philosophy and shove that up ur shitpipe, but Oh wait you would Probobly like that. Fucking poof
![1271754717_william-e.-gladstone[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BGZhImT.jpg "1271754717_william-e.-gladstone[1].jpg")
You know you're a madman when the period after your death is known by historians as the post-you period. Hell, even Jesus only got after his birth, not his death. He's such an important and influential figure that his grave only needed the word "Parnell" on it.
Parnell, up until he was deposed, yielded absolute, one man power - everyone had to sign a pledge saying they would sit, act and vote the way he wanted. After he was deposed, this one man power was, "Replaced by eighty man powerlessness" (O'Brien)
However, Gladstone, of the liberals who had been converted to home rule by Parnell, had promised to bring about home rule, and the conservative party promised to "kill home rule with kindness." - They extended the Ashbourne act to pay for even more tenants to buy land at an even more subsidised loan with the Balfour Act 1896 and Wyndham Act 1903.
This period is marked by division and political attacks on leadership rivals in the IPP, but Home Rule is still passed in the house of commons in 1893.
Oh, great, so that's that all sorted, right? Nah, because THE FUCKING HOUSE OF LORDS VETOED IT, AND THE HOUSE OF COMMONS CAN'T DO SHIT IF THE LORDS VETOES IT.
The IPP was united in 1900 under Redmond, a parnellite, and all was looking good for home rule.
>>321783
You'll have to forgive me for being brief here. I'll very quickly summarise in the next post 1900 to 1921 as it's 5 AM and I want to sleep.
![CFnJpUC[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9zKjbyf.jpg "CFnJpUC[1].jpg")
People weren't very happy with the IPP at this point. They liked it when it was united under parnell and there was no infighting. Now, while they will vote for the IPP because there's no alternative, they do so begrudgingly. If an alternative were to appear, they'd probably vote that instead. [spoiler]hint hint[/spoiler]
In the North of Ireland, the region of Ulster, had 16 nationalist seats and 17 "unionist" seats. These guys want to maintain the union with britain because, (among other reasons) they're paranoid of a catholic majority in an Irish Parliament persecuting them for being Protestant (Ulster was colonised by protestant settlers after the flight of the earls - search it up) They opposed Nationalism, and wanted to maintain the act of union.
There was a hung parliament in 1910 (twice), and again the IPP held the balance of power. They said they would work with the liberals if they reformed the house of lords (the main block to home rule), so they went to the king and told him to sort this shit out. The House of Lord's Veto was then restricted to only two years, and in 1914, Home Rule was passed.
Great, home rule over, can I go to sleep? No, of course not. It was put on hold due to the first world war, and hence no home rule. But the war'll be over by christmas, right? Let's wait. And wait. And, fuck it it's 1916. The Irish Republican Brotherhood (basically fenians with a cooler name) led a rebellion in Dublin which I'm sure you all know. It failed. People were originally against the rebellion, but due to the cruelness of the british to the rebellion leaders, (for example, James Connolly, who was so badly injured when he was injured that he had to be tied to a chair to be executed) that they now sympathised with them. Once the war was over, in 1918, Sinn Fein (the IRB political party) won a landslide victory, almost wiping out the IPP. (pic related holy shit), and did not take their seats at parliament. They demanded an independent Irish Republic (1/1.5)
![Commander_Michael_Collins[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/CH6hbya.jpg "Commander_Michael_Collins[1].jpg")
>>322025
Damn it I had this all typed up and it was deleted.
They held provisional government meetings which were surpressed, and Michael Collins, a genious military commander used guerilla tactics against "agents of the british state" in the Anglo-Irish War, assassinating high profile figures.
Public opinion was also shifting dramatically towards independence too, with events such as the Croke Park Massacre (a Gaelic match which was disrupted by the "black and tans" violently.) reinforcing this.
Up north, on the unionist side, there was signs of conflict too, the unionists were arming up in the case of a potential conflict. - Clearly this group could not be ignored, either.
In the end, the Anglo-Irish Treaty was negotiated by Michael Collins, this infamous treaty was regarded as a "sell-out" by many as many conditions were in this treaty which were certainly against the ideas they were campaigning for - ie, "partition" - the creation of a seperate state, Northern Ireland, and the lack of "true independence" in that they still had to swear allegiance to the King. Indeed, Collins said himself "I have just signed my death warrant.", and indeed he was assassinated during the civil war by anti-treaty forces, though in the end the the pro-treaty side came out on top.
Someone else can do the specifics of civil war, De Valera being a cunt, the emergency, et cetera. I have brought us from 1798 to 1921.
Oh yeah and any questions I can try to answer I guess
>>320731
10/10 thread OP thanks for teaching me stuff
>>320885
more ireland books:
Connolly, S. J. Divided Kingdom: Ireland, 1630–1800
>The best single-volume history of early modern and 18th-century Ireland has a chapter dedicated to Ireland in the Atlantic economy. The book also examines in detail the effects of the Cromwellian and Williamite settlements in Ireland. Despite the major changes brought by these attempts to pacify Irish Catholics and to transfer their property to loyal Protestants, Ireland remained a kingdom and not just merely a colony.
http://bookzz.org/book/2530699/fecec1
Brady, Ciaran and Raymond Gillespie, eds. Natives and Newcomers: Essays on the Making of Irish Colonial Society, 1534–1641. Dublin: Irish Academic Press, 1986.
>A significant collection of the best scholarship on Ireland up to 1986, with the Tudor contributions relating to England’s governance and reformation impositions, as well as the Gaelic aspects of the insurrections and the state of Irish towns during the period. Brady’s article “Court, Castle and Country: The Framework of Government in Tudor Ireland,” is especially illuminating.
Heal, Felicity. Reformation in Britain and Ireland. Oxford and New York: Oxford University Press, 2003.
>This nonpartisan contribution to the authoritative series Oxford History of the Christian Church is particularly strong on theology, but its real distinctiveness lies in tracing the Reformation in England in parallel with those in Ireland and Scotland.
bibliographies
England, 1485-1642
http://pastebin.com/KR97GbWb
theres a section dedicated to "tudor ireland." I have the book in that section called Sixteenth-Century Ireland: The Incomplete Conquest. I haven't read it but from the first five pages it is really interesting as it gives a background about ireland's geography and discusses what we know about its little known medieval culture
Elizabeth I
http://pastebin.com/RExdQwYz
section on "Elizabethan Ireland" has some more books with some overlap
>>322254
Brockliss, Laurence, and David Eastwood, eds. A Union of Multiple Identities: The British Isles, c. 1750– c. 1850. Manchester, UK: Manchester University Press, 1997.
>The focus of this book is on the period after 1815, when Colley’s anti-French/ anti-Catholic thesis seems an inadequate explanation for national identity after union with Ireland.
Smyth, Jim. The Making of the United Kingdom, 1660– 1800: State, Religion, and Identity in Britain and Ireland. Harlow, UK: Longman, 2001.
>Useful textbook on this issue; Smyth stresses the importance of the different but not separate national narratives of the four component peoples of modern Britain.
Claydon, Tony, and Ian McBride, eds. Protestantism and National Identity: Britain and Ireland, c. 1650– c. 1850. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press, 1998. DOI: 10.1017/ CBO9780511560439
>This useful set of essays, particularly good on Ireland, challenges commonly held notions that Protestant religion was a unifying force in the British Isles. The editors seek here to delve beneath platitudes about the place of religion in the 18th century and find a deeper understanding of the place and influence of the Protestant faith in British nation building.
http://bookzz.org/book/850015/a0deac
Pittock, Murray G. H. Inventing and Resisting Britain: Cultural Identities in Britain and Ireland, 1685– 1789. Basingstoke, UK: Macmillan, 1997.
>Stresses the tensions within the process of creating a national identity.
Damn they got a shitton of rotten potatoes mane
>>320958
No mention of the turncoat barrister that represented Tone in his treason trial only to be later revealed as a British agent when his wife went to Dublin Castle to collect his pension after he (the barrister) died?
Noob.
>>320787
Dat potato famine is the reason Britain no longer has an Empire. Able-bodied men and their children leave to fight for the Yanks (and others) and we sit out WW2.
A good trade in all I think.
Celt go away nobody cares about Ireland.
Cromwell did nothing WRONG, the IRA is a terrorist organization, potatoes suck
anyone here actually read Tàin bo Cualnge?
fucking so many names, family
why is Seàn South the best song written about an Irish rebel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAQfJ5AZRyk
>>321940
>tfw if Britbongs had invented the Parliament act 150 years ago Ireland would be united.
Yeah Irish history is pretty good 1801-1914
But the 1916 in my opinion kind of messed it up, yes they were great and all that
But we would have been better remaining part of a commonwealth and leaving the commonwealth as a united ireland, we would have benefited greatly from the wealth of the six counties back then
Instead We kind of fucked it up completely 1922-1990s and we're still fucking ti up to this day
>>320961
twas the fucking WELSH-Normans first invaded at the behest of a cowardly king
Their king only came later on to demand their allegiance after they had been integrated well enough into the country, after that came the plantations and the first brutal prelude to the future of Anglo colonization
>>323895
>But we would have been better remaining part of a commonwealth and leaving the commonwealth as a united ireland,
no fucking chance of this happening lad, Unionists were too influential and it was clear since the creation of the UVF that they wouldn't accept a democratic vote on the reunion of Ireland anyway
>>323900
Fucking Welsh, some welsh cunt wrote up some document about how shit pre norman ireland was and how primitve we were, which was total bullshite in it's entirety, the docment soon made it's way around european courts and probably influenced the invasion
Also the PAPACY fucking ENGLISH POPE with his PAPAL BULL LAUDABILITIER authorisised the invasion of ireland to bring based celtic catholicism into their shitty easter dating system
I guess welsh were made for our colonisation of them previously
>>323895
Nah, the ship sailed for any peaceful independence once the unionists kept throwing the dummy out of the pram.
After the Ulster Covenant it became clear that Irish revolution was the only solution.
>>323911
tbf he was the first and last english pope put there for political reasons
>>323908
British Army would have crushed UVF orange bastards, curragh mutiny was shite that was barely even relevant, officers pressued into doing it soldiers themselves wouldnt have taken part
>>323933
they'd never have done that though, it goes against their interests entirely
they'd have had less trouble just killing everyone in the country à la Cromwell
Recently released documents about the supposed "irish genocide of protestant settlers" that killed 4,000-200,000 total bullshit that cromwell then used for his genocide justification
http://1641.tcd.ie/index.php
Ireland needs to just break communion with the Vatican 2bh
>>323945
fug that map gives me a throbbing historic erection
know any reading material on the Clans and Chiefs?
>>323920
he's /fa/
>>323955
1014 Brian Boru & The battle for Ireland by Morgan Llywelyn is a fantastic book really gives an insight into Gaelic Ireland and the clann system they had.
>>323895
They wouldn't have given it to us. Carson started his terrorist organisation and the bottlers in parliament gave in to him.
>>323933
They would but Lloyd George was a horrifically meek prime minister who was easily browbeaten by unionist sabre-rattling.
And of course he was Welsh.
>>323960
much obliged, mo cara
>>323960
>Morgan Llywelyn
>welsh name
>one of his books only published in spanish
why
>>323877
As an Irish person I really hate most Irish music because it's too tweedy and upbeat. The exception would be Sean-nós because it sounds melancholy, which I think fits the Irish character and history better.
more of an Irish doom metal guy teebeehaitch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Mo8Q-Cn6I
>>323979
always good to find new folk metal
estonian folk got me into it, teagleach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--i3pwGGabE
>>323979
I must direct you to Eire Og. It is very much the exact opposite of twee or upbeat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifz6k2pvKdc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-ICbQb_SDc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzuEqke5YeY
are many irish anti-EU?
>>324020
The one thing I love about NI, is that there's almost no dindus.
But yeah fuck the EU.
>>324020
this is a history thread m8
but yes
Would anyone be able to tell me when the name Humphreys pops up in Ireland?
>>324054
Sometimes.
>>323840
It's based, there's no more names than the iliad
>>323954
The funny thing is, it was the Plantagenet Kings of England that imposed the Roman Church on the Irish. The Irish practiced Insular Christianity a variant that accommodated Celtic culture. So it amuses me whenever an Orangemen bitches about Catholic Irish when it was Crown of England that made them that way.
>>324392
Even more irony in the fact the Irish brought fucking their christianity to the anglo saxons who had paganised most of the populace
>>324802
Yep. The Northumbrians were particularly immersed with the Irish teachings of Christianity as well as the learning its monks offered.
Ireland and England had a good relationship until the Normans came and screwed it up for both nations.
>>320961
Harold didn't fall for the false retreat. It was the inexperienced fyrd that broke formation and chased the Normans down the hill. Had Fulford Gate and Stamford Bridge not had happened, Harold would've had more disciplined housecarls to hold the line.
He shouldn't have gone into battle so soon after Stamford Bridge. A few more days and he would've gathered an immense host to pen-up and annihilate the Normans. But the excommunication must've weighed heavily on Harold as well as all the devastated villages in Sussex. He was still the overlord of Wessex and was compelled by duty to protect his people.
>>320966
It's amazing that more than a century before Strongbow, a King of Leinster sided with the Vikings over his fellow Irishman, Brian Boru. What is wrong with that place?
>>324020
There's a significant amount that are anti-EU, and a similar number are pro-EU, if not slightly more, by my reckoning at least. The rest just couldn't give a toss.
>>320731
don't let this thread die
>>320966
>There are actually people who don't know who the rightful kings of Ireland are.
>>327236
Ulster is the best part of ireland to be honest, it's a shame it was split in two, it could have been the best province of the free state ;__;
>>323933
>British Army would have crushed UVF orange bastards
No, they weren't. They would rather have crushed Parliament.
>>327236
They fled and ones who left behind became English ducks plus the ui Neill's were messing with Brian boru they were never really good high kings
>tfw no more druid
I still get a mystic feeling walking around and a sense of sadness as to what used to be the 90% forestry of Ireland I just think about all the pre Christian culture that doesn't remain. Na fianna etc
>>327259
No chance British army would ever ever turn on Parliament over fucking Ulster no bloody chance. Officers may have been sympathetic but most weren't, soldier class weren't and most higher ups weren't either. So go away with your ulster revisionist bullshite
>>327261
>plus the ui Neill's were messing with Brian Boru
The ui Neill's were rolling their eyes while Boru pretended to be king.
>>327272
OK, so you acknowledge that those actually in command of the army would have ignored parliament, but you now think there would be a generalized, class based mutiny over NOT being ordered to fight in Ulster.
>>327261
> I still get a mystic feeling walking around and a sense of sadness as to what used to be the 90% forestry of Ireland
Now we can't walk down the road and be alone because there are fucking houses EVERYWHERE and NO NATURAL FORESTS.
And I live in Maigh Eo.
>>327335
are there seriously no forests in the free state? there's a few even around belfast. I mean, yeah they're hardly as big as big arse american ones but they're still not tiny
>>327335
Plus the reforesting efforts are an absolute joke. They're introducing hundreds of Sitka spruces that aren't native to the island and look hideous just because they're cheap, plus they ruin the soil. Over half of all the trees in Ireland are Sitka spruces. That's fucking insane, that'll destroy any hope of reforestation. Our government just doesn't care enough.
I just want to take a fucking walk, but I can't because 90% of the country is just fields. It'll sound like romantic hoighty toighty nonsense but I want to walk over the same land my ancestors walked over without some fuckwit in a tractor screaming at me for looking at his field a bit too long.
>>327530
Come up north then I guess, we've got a fair few. Comes with being economically underdeveloped. http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sm/public-forests-in-northern-ireland
>>320731
Rightful Queen of Ireland desu senpai
>Jews literally bring the Hebrew language back from the dead
>Irish can't seem to halt the decline in Irish language speakers
Why?
>>327768
>Irish can't seem to halt the decline in Irish language speakers
But Irish isn't decreasing, it's been increasing for the last fifty years. It's not been a meteoric rise like Hebrew had but in like 200 years if current trends continue the population will be majority Irish speaking again.
Slow going, but better than no going at all.
>>327631
Cheers anon
>>327817
Finished a wee while ago actually. How about yourself mate?
Bumpan
>>327839
Well that's a little bit of hopeful news if it holds true.
>>327861
Finished up last year. Now studying History at uni.
Good shit m80.
>>330342
Where'd you go to?
Thinking of doing history in UCC. Are Queen's or U. of Ulster any good?
I would like a job after college though.
>>330414
Ulster isn't really an international uni. Queen's is very good for history I am told though. Different anon.
>>330404
>Connacht
Barely even a fucking province honestly how many people live there? Like, three?
>>327768
The Jews had no common language at the time. Learning Hebrew was actually practical for the average Israeli family. That's not the case for Irish people.
I didn't know there was Jewish nobility in Ireland
>>331011
Didn't you know that Ulster Scots are a lost tribe of Israel, God's chosen people and the original inhabitants of Ireland? The papish gaelic invaders from Spain called them the "Cruithne" and drove them to Scotland. Thankfully due to the nobility and friendship of the holy king of Great Britain they reclaimed their rightful home from the romish gaelic barbarian. Now they live in splendour in the holy nation of Ulster, ever thankful and loyal to god and the crown of Great Britain, as mandated by the divine right of kings.
Why no pre-norman history?
>>320920
Literal cancer. Never trust a Wop.
>>320958
>"To subvert the tyranny of our execrable government, to break the connection with England, the never failing source of all our political evils, and to assert the independence of my country—these were my objects. To unite the whole people of Ireland, to abolish the memory of all past dissentions, and to substitute the common name of Irishman, in the place of the denominations of Protestant, Catholic, and Dissenter—these were my means."
Only person to have as cool a quote is Padraig Pearse's "Our Fenian dead".
>>320731
My mother's family made its roots in that invasion. Walsh of the Mountains. Transfixed, but still very much not dead.
>>323966
>mo cara
Cara = friend
Mo chara = my friend
Seimhiu's lad
>>331633
>Complains about séimhiús
>leaves out fadas
>>331706
I'm way too lazy to press alt-gr
>>327839
While the actual number of speakers increased, the percentage of Irish speakers is still declining.
That said, I'm glad there are people passionate about it, it'd be sad to see such a neat language die out.
>>320920
How the fuck is this half-Cuban recognized as an Irish leader? He was born in Brooklyn.
>>331140
Because nobody knows enough of the pre-Norman era. At best, it's just Druids, cattle raiders, Saint Patrick (even though Palladius pre-dated him as a Christian prosthelytizer in Ireland), Viking invasions, Book of Kells, and Brian Boru.
The famine was a genocide. The brits exported all of the food to support their growing economy, leaving my people with nothing but death and emigration.
>>332309
Is aoibhinn liom í, agus labhraíonn mé an teanga. Is í teanga álainn í.
>>332710
It's more akin to the Holdomar. It wasn't deliberate so much as ignorance, ineptitude, and apathy. There were earlier potato famines in Ireland and the British authorities didn't think it was gonna be that bad.
>>332762
They didn't care. We're the expendable Irish.
>>332722
Ba cheart "Tá an teanga agam" a rá in ionad "labhraíonn mé an teanga"
>>332667
>Implying there aren't fuckloads of annals, genealogies and records.
We know shitloads about the pre-norman era, we just know fuck all about the pre-christian era.
>>332820
What I mean is, the average person isn't aware of any of this. The information is out there, but they have to read it.
>>332835
Tá fuaim gránna ar an dara acu. Béarlachas é, is dócha
>>332864
Tá ceart agat
Uí Néill superior
>>332851
Recommended reading material?
>>337056
not him but this is from an old thread on /lit/:
Ireland, Scandinavia, The Viking World
Ó Cróinín, Dáibhí (ed.) A New History of Ireland I: Prehistoric and Early Ireland
Cosgrove, Art (ed.) A New History of Ireland II: Medieval Ireland 1169-1534 (outside of the Late Antique timeframe but the Viking world takes us long past 800 anyway)
Orpen, Goddard Henry - Ireland under the Normans
The Norman histories are needed to understand how the 'Viking' age of Ireland came to a close.
Charles-Edwards, Thomas - Early Christian Ireland
Valante, Mary - The Vikings in Ireland
Cahill Wilson, Jacqueline (ed.) - Late Iron Age and 'Roman' Ireland
Sheehan, John & Ó Corráin, Donnchadh (eds.) - The Viking Age - Ireland and the West
Roesdahl, Else - The Vikings
Brink, Stefan & Price, Neil (eds.) The Viking World
Bhreathnach, Edel - Ireland in the Medieval World AD 400-1000
Parker, Philip - Northmen's Fury
Brondsted, Johannes - The Vikings
Jones, Gwyn - A History of the Vikings
Roesdahl, Else - From Viking to Crusader: Scandinavians and Europe, 800-1200
Bagge, Sverre - From Viking Stronghold to Christian Kingdom: State Formation in Norway 900-1300
Benedikz, Benedict - The Varangians of Byzantium
>>337068
http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780195396584/obo-9780195396584-0014.xml?rskey=G7sNWc&result=10&q=ireland#firstMatch
check out this link too for introductory books on irish art and viking art in ireland around early medieval period
