>Ancient Greek city states and many cultures of Precolumbian America: Democracy, people vote in leaders and vote leaders out when the need arises. Issues are handled by debate and discussion.
>The Chinese Empire: The Imperial Bureaucracy. One who understands moral philosophy can enter the Imperial Bureaucracy and serve the state in various functions. Those that do well get promoted to better serve the Empire.
>Medieval Europe: Feudalism. A warlord manages to fight his way to power over an area and gives away lands and villages to his favored men who give their titles to their kids who run the country like a pyramid scheme. Military power lies in knights and forces raised by local lords, knights seek to become lords and lords seek to become kings. Everyone is locked into a hereditary class system. If the King tries to introduce laws or policies the lords don't like because it threatens their positions, they'll rebel. It is by nature oppressive and grossly inefficient. When Europe actually starts to matter on the world stage fuedalism gives way to centralized monarchism.
Feudalism, not even once.
> Feudalism is grossly inefficient.
ummmmmmmm lol?
>>319556
Your picture has a fucking knight with two heads?
>>319556
How efficient something is has to do with the execution of it too.
That said Feudalism is the reason we are what we are now and I'm glad we didn't turn out like China.
>>319556
>Ancient Greek city states: Democracy
No. Athens was the exception. Most poleis had some kind of council one way or another, but it was an oligarchic affair 95% of the time. That's not to say it was bad, just that it wasn't always chosen by vote.
>Chinese Empire. One who understands moral philosophy can enter the Bureaucracy.
No again. "Understanding" in this context means memorizing the classics, the teachings of Laozi or whatever was in vogue at the time. Chinese administration was often affected by nepotism and corruption.
>Europe didn't matter on the world stage during feudalism.
There was no "world stage" during medieval times.
>>319588
>Chinese administration was often affected by nepotism and corruption.
Corruption was more likely to be present in a Feudal Society as they're was less recourse to deal with it and Nepotism is feudalism's bloody foundation.
This is the quantum singularity calling a rusty pot black.
Feudalism is a myth and medieval Europe was way more complex than that.
You are forgetting most kingdoms had some sort of parliament that had to be gathered if the king needed some new tax or whatever.
The kingdoms also had court system, both secular and clerical.
The kingdoms also had educated professionals from universities that just increased over time, working as for example lawyers, judges or in the royal bureaucracy.
Peasants were quite unruly and would revolt if they felt lords were breaking ancient laws or norms.
>>319556
>food goes down to peasants
What
Feudal relations with wealthy lords typically dominated the continental life in Europe and there wasn't really a romanticized "feudalism" structure that people in modern days perceive was reality in medieval Europe. Urban life closer to the Mediterranean was usually dominated by what one's profession was, and what they could bring to the community than how much land or military power one had.
That's wrong
Everyone understands that 'feudalism' is a renaissance invention that simplified the reality of the complicated and unique medieval system?
>>319773
Corruption implies that there are actual laws for people to break.
>>319908
It implies abuse of a position of power. Laws are implied, but at a certain point under a despot, the laws are set by them. So without breaking any laws, a despot can still be corrupt.
Feudalism is comfy.
>>319987
>>319831
You are talking about late medieval era.
The first proper European universities were founded in the 13th century if im not mistaken.
In the early middle ages societies were very simple.
>>320044
>13th century
11th m8
>>319556
>you work and pay taxes
>powerful people (the ones who collect taxes) protect you against enemies (btw they define who is enemy and who is not)
is there a difference?
>>320044
>implying there weren't educated people before 13th century.
>>320191
The powerful people are not noble houses set in stone not only by wealth but by custom who you have no recourse against beyond rebellion should they abuse their power. Moreover the power struggles between those that are powerful are "how can we better serve the state" rather than "how can we make our dynasty more powerful".
>>320044
In the early middle ages the education was provided by the church in monasteries rather than in universities.
>>319556
you sound like people consciously chose it from a range of options.
it's a pretty natural development from the sorts of tribal societies that were around at the time, which basically fixed those tribes to particular geographical regions rather than wandering about and taking their neighbours' shit as happened during the migration period.
don't forget, tribes were basically a warlord, his retinue, their dependents, and then the rest of the tribe. these became the king, the landed gentry, the landless gentry and the peasantry in due course.
arguably, the period of stability that followed (relatively, of course) was what set the scene for the renaissance and thereafter the onset of modernity.
>>319556
Greek democracies were largely controlled by wealthy families which eventually became effective royalty, you had to have considerable wealth to be elected
to be elected the people didn't vote, if you were of the correct standing you were allowed to participate in a lottery to be elected to the council, you would serve then retire to the senate which was full of rich old men
also greek democracies would only be democracies when nothing was happening when wars happened they always elected a dictator, the dictator wins the war, comes home, builds some temples, people get jealous and paranoid about his power, he gets exiled, people celebrate and go back to being a "democracy"
Democracy: Two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for dinner.
The correct answer is benevolent dictator who makes tough decisions for the greater good. (may be supported by counsellors, but final decision is with the leader).
who cares.
>>319556
>Knight
>with crossbows
If he really is one, he sure is a fucking pleb.
>>322393
the correct answer is to stop fantasying about a (legal) structure to control people who do not share the doctrine implemented by the structure.
>>319585
>That said Feudalism is the reason we are what we are now
Ending Feudalism is the reason Europe is what it is now.
Weren't the late Persian empires before the fall to islam feudal? They rekt Romans pretty good with their knights.
>>319556
>It is by nature oppressive and grossly inefficient.
Naw. having a close knit hierarchy where everyone knew their direct superiors and relied on their direct inferiors made people more likely to develop familial-like patriarchal bonds of mutual respect. It is when a small minority are completely alienated from their underlings that it is easy to forget that they are people.
>>322679
>>322718
Yeap. So much so it resembled Feudal Europe
>his country had serfdom
laughingblondebitches.jpg
>>320969
>Roman Dictatorships/Consulships
>But shittier
Haha. Fucking greeks.
>>322688
>Ending Feudalism is the reason Europe is what it is now.
>in order for things to change, things had to change
No shit, Sherlock. That's the argumentative equivalent of stating the sky is blue.
>>323092
The Roman Republic was based on Greek constitutions.
>Ancient Greek city states and many cultures of Precolumbian America: Democracy, people vote in leaders and vote leaders out when the need arises. Issues are handled by debate and discussion.
Athens had democracy and eventually so did some of the Aegean and Attic and Ionian cities. Most of them, however, remained oligarchies and in Magna Graeca and Sicily and Thrace/Ionia Tyrants remained exceptionally populat.
>>323058
>his ancestors didn't own serfs
How does it feel to be a pleb
>>324447
Preddy good
>>322991
Which does not change the fact that the central government is weak and dependent on the cooperation of a bunch of squabbling lords.
Feudalism was way less oppressive and more free that the absolute monarchies that followed, and even more than the democracies that came later.
Of course, since intellectuals by nature are parasitary to centralized power, they will always slander the merits of feudalism and idolize monarchs who created bureaucracies staffed by intellectuals, such as Philip IV or Louis XIV.
>>319556
I think Feudalism worked when there was truly good people in charge of it and that's why it started out so strong. The concept of noble blood became a joke over the centuries with some of their behavior, and the royalty became more of a burden on the people than any kind of help.
>>319585
This.
Without manorialism (which was a part of feudalism), there would be no Western European marriage pattern (which is characterized by late marriage and exogamy), and without the Western European marriage pattern, there is no development of independent civic society, liberty and capitalism.
Pic related.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajnal_line
In politics it is all about bigger army diplomacy, if your army is bigger, then you get to be king. Now the way you acquire this army will depend on many factors like keeping the peasants happy, increasing production, and smooching with the right people.
>>326141
>le cgp grey meme
It's not that simple.
>>319588
>"Understanding" in this context means memorizing the classics, the teachings of Laozi or whatever was in vogue at the time.
That's a myth based on the 1st Level Exams taken by aspiring Bureaucrats.
It basically tests your literacy, that's all. The situational questions follow later.
Also that meme "Confucius Says" started among bureaucrats, because every essay starts with at least a quotation from some Philosopher, Confucius being the most common.
That actually carried over into the Early PRC: where scientists & politicians often start debates/essays by quoting from Mao Zedong's writings.
>tfw Varna haven't been mentioned yet
