What vices are muslims allowed? I'm writing a story featuring a character that I want to make as hedonistic of a muslim as possible, while still adhering to the Qu'ran. I'm finding lots of lists of what isn't allowed (gambling, alcohol, dice, etc.), but some of these go against what I've already know, like how hashish and hookah are both originally from islamic countries, and used somewhat frequently. Are those considered smaller sins, like lying or casting adulterous looks, or more of an unforgivable sin?
>>314099
Strictly speaking everything smokeable is allowed, including weed, opium and tobacco. As well as everything that wasn't invented in Muhammad's time like intravenous heroin and cocaine.
They're not sins in the very literal sense they aren't included in the Qur'an, but at the same time it's reasonably certain allah wouldn't like it.
>>314111
From what I read any "intoxicants" are haram, which would probably include those. But I'm more looking at the distinction between unforgivable sin and what can be slid under the rug.
>>314099
>>314111
man of muslim background here, anything that would cloud your judgement is considered haram. haram basically equals to "sin" because it is forbidden and can be punishable according to shariah law.
but since there is no one muslim religious head some things that would be haram in a culture wouldn't be considered one. for example qat is a plant with metamphetamine like effect when you chew on it and it is legal in yemen and yemen is a country where people kill eachother in the name of islam a lot.
if you want to have an idea about hedonistic muslim lifestyle read about how saudi arabians live, those people are greasy as fuck.
>>314331
*but since there is no one muslim religious head some things that would be haram in a culture wouldn't be considered one in another.
>>314336
>>314331
Alright, I'll give you a little more detail and maybe you can point me to a good resource or reference. I'm looking at making this guy part of the criminal underworld, but for the benefit of the community. He pairs mercenaries with employers, and takes a finder's fee, which he then returns to the community through his mosque. Right now I'm digging through Nizari Ismailism, because I think drawing comparisons between him an Hassan I Sabbah makes sense. And naturally, as someone who deals with the underworld, he's going to be engaged in a few vices to help put his mind at ease. He's based in America too, however that might influence it. Thoughts?
>this thread
>>314099
Drugs are allowed, lots of rich Wahabbist Saudis are into that sort of thing.
Tobacco, and other variants of inhalants are allowed.
Visiting prostitutes is allowed.
Violence is allowed, towards non-Muslims at least.
Sado-masochism is allowed.
>>314397
i am sorry i have no resources i can point you to but you can use what i write down as a reference for further research.
i am turkish. you can consider opium, alcohol and tobacco as ottoman vices and during reign of some rulers they were banned. which caused those habits to go underground, even after the bans were lifted when the those rulers died.
in my personal opinion, it wouldn't be out of place for him to use opiates or alcohol or smoke cannabis. for example sufis used cannabis in their prayer rituals so that's an example of a sect that used narcotics. you can purse that angle.
>>314099
Most unforgivable sins have to do with blasphemy and apostasy. Below that are sins that usually end up with lashing, beating, or sequestering/banishment involving adultery and illegal promiscuity, price fixing and other economic cheats, and illegal slavery and forced labor.
Beyond that vices tend to be moral failings and character faults that'd only really get punished if it ends up disturbing the public peace or if it offends someone of higher social rank who could take action.
Drinking, vulgarity, and irreverent blasphemy are common vices among historical Muslim administrators and governors. Sometimes such habits are played up for thematic purposes when the person has a 'born-again' moment in the source material. Starting halfway through the Umayyad and well into the Abbasid era you had courtly men surrounding themselves with unveiled slave girls and concubines, singing songs, composing lusty poetry, and so on. Usama ibn Munqidh once mentions a relative who boasted about sleeping with a different peasant girl every morning, that he couldn't even start his day without some low-class poontang - illegal intercourse are really about family honor, and it didn't much apply to cases where the woman has no family or honor such as slaves, peasants, and prostitutes.
Of course all these things made religious leaders mad. More down to earth vices would be indulging in various kinds of non-religious poetry, pleasurable passtimes like public picnics and games (gambling may or may not be involved), etc.
>>314516
>Turks
>Muslim
Ain't Tengriism on the rise in Turkey because some dumb cunts think just because they were raped by Seljuk Turks that means they are now ethnic Turkics?
>>314099
Fermented alcohol from grape and grain is forbidden, mead comes from honey, and most Turks get around the rule by drinking distilled alcohol like hard liquor.
>>314542
tengriism on the rise among "le i found a website where i can post vulgar things called 4 chains" fedora tippers. that's like 20 guys.
>>314536
>>314580
Also, illegal taxes - tariffs and such that don't follow traditional law - were a really popular "vice" I suppose as nearly every ruler passed them, and nearly every ruler won public favor as a pious figure when they abolished them. Things like taxing the movement of goods in and out of a market, sales taxes, the list goes on.
Of course there's some bias here as most Islamic theologians that wrote about such sins were themselves merchants or from a merchant background.
>>314099
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makruh
You should also check Mubah OP.
>>314420
>Visiting prostitutes
Any and all sexual relations outside of marriage and female slaves( unmarried, believing/people of the book that consent to it and are exclusively in that relationship with one person in the household) are forbidden in all instances, even with a fiance.
>>314991
That doesn't stop them from doing it, does it?
>inb4 NOT ALL MUSLIMS HURR
I caught a well-known Imam sneaking around a brothel in my local area.
>>315002
Was making a point that it's not allowed, not that people don't do it.
>>314099
obviously raping little girls is allowed
>>314420
Everything you said is debatable; some clearly are haram.
>>314111
If heroin and cocaine are not allowed then neither should painkillers.
>>314542
>>314599
Is Tengriism the snackbar's Norse religion?
>>315473
>If heroin and cocaine are not allowed then neither should painkillers.
>this_kills_the_islam.jpeg
>>314991
Iirc some used a loophole were they 'marry' the prostitute temporarily
>>314099
pedophilia for one
>>315499
That's the nikah mut'ah that's practiced by Twelver Shia - more or less minority view in terms of the Ummah as a whole.
Sunni (the majority) hold it as impermissible, the same goes for 'urfi nikah.
There is some practice of misyar nikah but that is more like people living in difficult economic circumstances where the couple cannot live together as they cannot afford it and can be converted to a normal nikah at any time (or be divorced) - this practice is generally frowned upon if not outright considered illicit since it creates an unhealthy home environment where the father (of any children from this marriage) is usually not home, and it puts stress on the relationship between husband and wife.
The only real unforgivable sin is apostasy, murder of innocents is the second closest after that
Perhaps you could look into pride?
I as talking to some cameljockey at a hookah bar and he said that using hookah in his country was very shameful for a male and you get teased and bullied for it and then he dropped some hash in my hookah and starting rambling on about how crazy muslims are and all they want to do is kill eachother and there will never be peace because muslims can't help but force their ideas on the world, violently
so maybe not hookah, he said they smoke tobacco, cigars, etc. there's also "gat", sounds like cart. it's this leaf you chew in a big wad in your mouth and you drool kinda like betel except the effects are way better. it's a bit like snorting ritalin - stimulant, better than caffeine at least. tried it in london in this gross somali den. fuckin somalis man, so lanky and always wack into shit and of course they're like 7 foot with their stupid muslim bitches and they spit on the floor and take up space god I hate them, also they get loud and agressive when they chew gat and become unpredicatble
can muslims chew betel?
or is that more asian thing?
>>315479
Turkic paganism, still practiced in central asian turkic countries and frozen hellholes in siberia.
>>314099
Alcohol
Pork
Drugs
Gambling
Sex outside of Marriage
Believing in multiple Gods
That's it according to the Qur'an.
Unless you want to go into specific inheritance laws and shit.
>>314420
mm ...go back to .... ..9gag?
>>314420
>drugs allowed
Not really, but people do them anyway
>tobacco allowed
Again, not really, but people do it so much that most just ignore it in the ME. There was actually a blind guy I knew at the masjid who smoked. Every year the community would give him a little gift because he was aging and blind but a nice guy overall. The Sheikh didn't want to though because he smoked
>Visiting prostitutes is allowed
Not really again, you're supposed to get 100 lashes for fornication
>Violence is allowed
I suppose in times of war? It's not like you're supposed to be able to do it for fun
>Sado-masochism is allowed
Definitely haram
It seems like you just listed a bunch of things that rich Muslims do, specifically Saudi princes, and those guys are just the fucking most abysmal people on the planet
>>314099
Dude, you shouldn't look further than The Buddha of Suburbia, written by Hanif Kureishi.
An hedonist Muslim would give a fuck about Islam to live the dream.
>Pimping and fucking your own whores.
>Smoking weed everyday
Interesting thread, while I'm here and if the Muslim anon is still here, are Muslims really allowed to lie/deceive people if it expands the faith?
It's something I see on /pol/ constantly
>>319021
ye i started browsing /his/ yesterday, i still am.
what you have there is "le taqqiya" meme, which is a fun meme tbqh but overused.
"In Shi'a Islam, taqiya (تقیة taqiyyah/taqīyah) is a form of religious dissimulation, or a legal dispensation whereby a believing individual can deny his faith or commit otherwise illegal or blasphemous acts, especially while they are in fear or at risk of significant persecution."
however i am pretty sure there is atleast one preacher out there telling his flock that "lying in order to expand or benefit the faith is acceptable" but then again it is not a commonly held belief.
>>319049
Thank you Turk bro
>>319021
>Interesting thread, while I'm here and if the Muslim anon is still here, are Muslims really allowed to lie/deceive people if it expands the faith?
No that's a bullshit "meme" made up by the crowd that hates Islam. They call it "Taqiyya" and claim it means Muslims are allowed to lie and decieve to advance Islam, so that whenever a Muslim is saying they're not a terrorist, they don't want convert people, they're just normal, etc etc, it's all apparently "taqiyya" and secretly they're plotting the downfall of the west.
What Taqiyya really is, is the doctrine developed i think in reconquered Spain, where Muslims are allowed to deny they're Muslim, without being considered an apostate to their friends or to God, if their life is in danger.
Of course if you try to explain this to the "Taqiyya" memers they will claim that, that explanation is in itself "Taqiyya", circular logic of course but no way to beat it because whatever you say is "Taqiyya".
>>314099
CHECKED AND SAVED
>>319021
This video explains it pretty well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hYzeqOCMvY
>>319120
this video is painful to watch. believing taqiyya to be an everyday activity of fooling westerners is kind of fucked in itself so it is best to just avoid both muslim apologists and online christian fundies.
Make the guy a saudi prince and he can do pretty much anything
>>319169
While the person does sound like an insufferable faggot, he's not a Muslim apologist. He's an atheist and his channel is mostly full of debates with apologists and criticism of Islam, but every now and then he points out BS coming from the other side of the apologia coin.
>>319070
>What Taqiyya really is, is the doctrine developed i think in reconquered Spain, where Muslims are allowed to deny they're Muslim, without being considered an apostate to their friends or to God, if their life is in danger.
It's a Shi'a doctrine developed in Iraq and Iran. Maliki thought on what Spanish Muslims should do under Christian domination centered on immigrating to still-Muslim controlled territory instead.
>>319169
He's right though.
There's a lot of criticisms of Islam, i don't know why people make so much up.
Criticism of religion is retarded to begin with though. It is what it is. Criticize the followers instead.
>>319201
>There's a lot of criticisms of Islam, i don't know why people make so much up.
I think it has to do with how someone with a hammer can only see nails. A ton of cases with people making things up when criticizing Islam involve people who can't read Arabic, have no training in comparative religious study, and are not trained historians.
So what they do is take English translations and try and apply direct quotes to behavior they see (or fear) from Muslims today. They're applying a Protestant understanding of exegesis to construct a parallel religion that exists only in theory and which explains everything a Muslim might do, good or evil, as a doctrine, which is why so many amateur critics are Americans or from a Protestant background,
>>314099
Rape, pedophilia, any type of inhaled drugs, gluttony, most forms of violence.
>>319190
i haven't followed through with the video, i'll take your word for it.
>>319201
i don't agree with you, hadiths are a great cause of problem in my opinion. they become fundemental parts of islam once whichever sect acknowledges a hadith as legitimate source of information and hadiths are basically taking the words of a guy who claims to witnessed the action of the prophet or heard him say something on a subject. they are unreliable and in my personal opinion they serve to a political agenda by their creators and later adopters.
