How did early Zionists go about convincing people that creating a Jewish state in Palestine would be a good idea?
controlled media
>jews didnt du nuffin
>muh holocaust
>6 trillion
>>312719
Mostly, they convinced Jews to go and emigrate to Palestine. They figured the state would follow once they had enough of a presence.
>>312734
But how did they convince them? From my understanding there were Jews all over Europe and the middle east speaking different languages with different cultures depending on how well they integrated with their host country and convincing them to move to a poor undeveloped shithole to build an entire new country rather seems like a hard sell pre-holocaust.
>>312729
Zionism existed before the Holocaust
>>312759
of course nationalism was huge then
they still controlled the media though?
>>312758
Keep in mind that the Jews in Russia were already victims of Pogroms, and most of the early Zionists came from Russia.
Despite it being a poor, undeveloped shithole, they still managed to build an entirely new state and create one of the highest standards of living today. Jews believed they could do it.
>>312762
[citations needed]
>>312767
your local library
>>312772
This is such a typical stormfag /pol/ answer. No citations, no sources, now actual evidence, just telling you to go read about it, without telling you where to start. It is just a way to avoid giving evidence. And when you do give evidence, it is cherrypicked data, memes, and out of context quotations.
>>312719
They told them it'll be a communist utopia, they bought land from Arabs then started communal farming, until the Arabs became aware of what they were doing, so they started blowing shit up.
Before WW2 most were coming from shitholes in Eastern Europe where they were liable to be pogromed'. Not hard to understand why they'd want out (huge numbers also moved to North America). Then WW2 happened which was obviously a big 'push' factor for European Jews. Then when Israel was founded Middle Eastern countries expelled their Jews so they went to Israel too. Plus you'd have some small number of Jews from safe Western countries (US, Canada, South Africa, etc.) who got caught up in the enthusiasm and moved to Israel.
>>312794
pretty much this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz
>>312758
Some went for religious reasons, but most went to escape various anti-semetic outbursts. As the other anon said, pogroms were pretty common in eastern Europe, and even in the more civilized western and central European nations, there were all sorts of ugly prejudices wafting around, often with literal rules making them second class citizens.
And even in places where they were equal in theory, in practice they often worried, like the Dreyfus affair.
>>312767
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism
Plain and simple
>>312802
>Asked for evidence that Jews control the media
>Links to a wikipedia article on Zionism without context or any evidence of his hypothesis in it
/pol/ pls go
This man. Theodore Hertzel. The father of Zionism.
He wrote several books on it, made public speeches in Jewish communities, and would travel to meet with the richest Jews to convince him of the cause. He convinced the richest Jews to pool their money together and buy the Israel land. Than he convinced the middle and lower class Jews to immigrate them.
It's actually an incredibly story. A bunch of scattered people get unified under one goal and build a fucking nation.
>>312719
They tried a lot of things, but the bulk of the convincing was done byantisemites. You know, if the people in your hometown want you dead, that's a pretty good reason for leaving, for a place where this won't happen.
>>312789
Jews, wars, and communism by Zosa Szajkowski
literally everything by him is about jewish media's influence on things through out history. he wrote plenty of books.
literally just fucking go to a library and read any book about the Zionist movement.
>>312823
If jews had so large influence on media how did they managed to get genocided from europe?
>>312812
Zionism is pretty amazing, the fact they succeeded is pretty mind blowing. Such larger than life characters like Moshe Dayan
>We came to this country which was already populated by Arabs, and we are establishing a Hebrew, that is a Jewish state here. In considerable areas of the country we bought lands from the Arabs. Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you, because these geography books no longer exist; not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahalal arose in the place of Mahalul, Gevat — in the place of Jibta, Sarid — in the place of Haneifs and Kefar Yehoshua — in the place of Tell Shaman. There is no one place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population.
>Along the Syria border there were no farms and no refugee camps — there was only the Syrian army... The kibbutzim saw the good agricultural land … and they dreamed about it... They didn't even try to hide their greed for the land... We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.
>>312823
Okay, I'll run to the local library, read an entire book, and come back in time to continue this argument
>>312719
>C'mon it's definitely for the best. I mean, would I lie to you?
>>312800
Most went for financial reasons, rich jews bought land, and poor jews farmed it. It had little to do with ideology or nationalism. Hertzel just made his idea economically viable, knowing fullwell that jews will follow money.
>>312827
>if the goverment controls the united states, why do they get criticized?
this is you right now
>>312834
good, thats how it should be
>>312843
government of usa doesnt control media
>control propaganda and tought
>manage to get hated
i fail to see logic
>>312836
And those "financial reasons" were in large part due to the existing structure of laws. If you're a rich Jew in France, you can't legally buy land and have your poor Jew employees farm it. So you go somewhere where you can do something like that.
>>312830
The fact that they revived Hebrew as a living language is also astounding and unprecedented.
>>312861
>white people control what black slaves read to "control their thoughts"
>manage to get hated by said black people
Youre using retarded logic. So many newspapers could decide what the main issues were and they always made it a point to point out that jews were persecuted alot and they deserve a homeland
>>312789
https://thezog.wordpress.com/
They may not own everything or have a total monopoly, but they're over represented in most places in the United States for a small population of Americans.
>>312809
https://thezog.wordpress.com/
>>312719
Done arguing if you think it's so bad, why don't you come and check it out for yourself
>>312906
The Zionists did not meekly ask for permission. They ACTED! They gathered what resources they had and started buying land. The Arabs noticed what was going on and some groups reacted violently. Various Jewish paramilitary groups were founded in response. Some were defensive in nature while others used the same tactics as the Arabs and were essentially terrorists.
The world accepted Israel's existence only once the paramilitary Zionists have already established a de facto state via force of arms. This haunts Israel to this day as the Palestinians are using the same tricks the Jews used to drive away the British to try and drive away Israelis.
>>312925
why is it so hard for you to understand the huge Jewish influence there is in media? I could literally sit here all day naming disproprtionate zionist newspapers and zionist organizations created by jews and you would still say shit like "If they really had mind control powers, you would have figured this out XDDDDDDDD"
>>312944
Influence started after ww2 when they became sacred cows, before that event outside usa they didnt hold so much influence
>>312944
Not that guy but because the kind of people who talk about the Jewish media influence are also the kind who tend to believe in a certain body of reactionary racist nonsense.
Case in point, the support for a jewish state did not come from the masses being brain-washed but from the imperial powers of the day seeing that the Zionists have already won the ground war. This was not an ideological decision. This was a pragmatic one.
>>312978
average jew in europe made 5x the average gentile European, they certainly had some economic power
>>312978
You really don't know your history. Look at the list of boycotts and resolutions against Israel in the UN all the way up to the 80s. Jewish influence is relatively recent and stems from the American fundamentalists who support Israel because muh jeebus. You're throwing away a huge amount of deep south votes if you are anti-Israel and the jewish lobby exploits that.
Pretty much anywhere else in the west there is a strong anti-Israeli sentiment.
>>312982
>Not that guy but because the kind of people who talk about the Jewish media influence are also the kind who tend to believe in a certain body of reactionary racist nonsense.
I know, but you shouldnt straw man someone whom you know nothing about.
>This was not an ideological decision. This was a pragmatic one
I agree, but there is not doubt zionism has its roots in ideological nationalism (something that was extremely common at the time)
>>312830
He was once asked how come he won every war he fought in. His answer was basically "we fought Arabs".
>>313003
I think fundamentalist influence is really not that big. Its Congressional lobby isn't particularly strong and is offset by other groups. The real difference might have been the sway they held on the White House during George W Bush's presidency, but he's long gone.
>>313048
I think like half of the policies of the right are intended to appeal to the hardcore fundies. There are enough to build a party around. The libs are trying to grab the "moderates" and keep the jewish vote.
>>312795
this
>>313064
Maybe half the policies are supported by fundies, but tons of Americans are against abortion, anesthesia, etc. Those are general conservative issues, not necessarily religious ones. Remember the religion card is played explicitly only since the 1980s and more assertively since the mid 90s, and abortion became an issue already in Roe v Wade in the 70s. Truly fundie candidates like Santorum never manage to win big scores in the primaries. It's more a local issue in southern states that are pretty conservative to begin with.
>>313106
Okay, that's fair.
>>313106
>anesthesia
Euthanasia of course
I love it that people constantly go about how Zionists control the media and all that to get the support of western superpowers, but historically dominant powers constantly used to shit on Zionism and Israel. Britain for example severely limited Jewish immigration to Palestine in the 1920s and 1930s (Balfour did give some nominal lip service but it was scrapped at the first sign of Arab butthurt), and even during WW2. The US wasn't particularly pro-Israel; it's true that is gave it some weapons but it was more about curbing Soviet influence via the Arabs. Kissinger for example delayed weapons shipment to Israel during the '73 war until it became absolutely clear that Israel's coming up on top. Even Reagan and Bush I gave Israel tons of shit, especially about the Lebanon issue.
Early zionists promoted israel via the bible and how the long lost tribes of israel would unite again under the kingdom of israel. Its was a very double sided thing. Anti-zionism, however did not mean anti jewish or semite. Until later marketing. I remember critics calling the nation of israel the jewish reich.
The concept is this if your religion is defined by a book and the book speaks of an important kingdom of Gods chosen. Would you not support it? Latter on israel was supported by the allies whom used it as a safeguard war strategy. Basically promoted unity of the descendants of those exiled, historically. Which is not a bad thing.
>>313303
Anti semite in those days meant anti arab. If the us keeps falling for the naming we'll one day be cursed by being labeled genocidal. After all the wester powers have done to the arabs.
>>313303
>Early zionists promoted israel via the bible and how the long lost tribes of israel would unite again under the kingdom of israel.
Uh, no they did not. Most of them were 101% secular. Read Herzl and Jabotinsky and you hardly see any biblical stuff (maybe only for aesthetic or sentimental purposes). They spoke in terms of national self-determination and used many, many analogies and examples from contemporary European nations (Jabotinsky wrote his university thesis about self-determination in the Balkans or something of this sort).
Religious Jews for the most part shunned and rejected Zionism. It was only a bit later, with Rabbi Kook, that traditional Jewish scriptures were reconciled with nationalism, and it was by no means a terribly successful process (up until today Religious Zionist are a rather small minority).
>>313352
Damn I just realized I finish every sentence with parenthesis. Fucking obnoxious, sorry.
terrorism and bageling out
they convinced people with money, enough to fund several governments worth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
>>313037
I suggest we come up with a new rule.
All Palestinian-sympathizing posters are IP-banned on sight. This has been going on since the 110,000th post. They have no respect for rhetoric. They even blatantly lie, then drown our responses by blotting out the Sun with their persistent insane posts.
I suggest the rule be worded like this:
>Any argument put forward with rigorous argument may not be countered with a response claiming superiority but lacking rigor. Unsubstantiated claims in counterarguments must be punished with immediate execution.
See: Tibet threads. These Palestinians swarm everywhere like locusts, dragging us down into their famine of thought and hell of an echo chamber.
>>315361
Imagine how embarrassing it is being an Arab knowing the best country in the middle east is a Jewish country with no oil.
>>312925
You asked for a source, and got one. Just because it doesn't fit your narrative doesn't mean it's wrong. All it shows is the amount of Jewish people and how much they're over represented in the media.
>>315922
They're even overrepresented by IQ if one were to be generous and apply the hereditarian understanding
>>312719
A lot of jews weren't convinced. Why do you think most eastern european jews went to america rather than the shithole desert land that was palestine?
>>312758
>But how did they convince them
The jewish question was still a thing in Europe especially post-Dreyfus incident. Herzog offered an alternative that was palatable to Europeans namely relocating them all to somewhere else like the Middle East or Africa.
>the middle east speaking different languages with different cultures depending on how well they integrated with their host country and convincing them to move to a poor undeveloped shithole to build an entire new country rather seems like a hard sell pre-holocaust.
The ones in the Middle East were mostly not Zionist. They were subsequently expelled from their home countries after the founding of Israel (with a few exceptions). This is one of the great tragedies that both the Zionists and the Arab Nationalists gloss over.
If Zionism hadn't existed these people would have been part of the pan-nationalist movement in the Middle East and the anti-semitism in the Middle East wouldn't have become such a monstrosity.
>>313317
no it didn't you idiot. the term was first coined by a german writer used specifically to target jews
>>313145
>Kissinger for example delayed weapons shipment to Israel during the '73 war
His reasons in the released transcripts was to gain leverage over Israel so that the would be pliable in negotiating a peace with Egypt.
>>312758
Israel was created by European Jews. The funding from Western Zionist organizations, assisting the migration of Jews from Eastern Europe.
The whole thing gained momentum with the British Mandate. It was created the "Jewish Agency", which was basically a way to channel the taxpayer's money for colonization and settlement of Jews in Palestine.
Later, these same settlers were forming terrorist militias, exploding vehicles, attacking and preying farms and villages.
The language issue. Primarily used is English, and due to demographic volume, Yiddish. To resolve incompatibilities, they revived a language, for human common use, was dead. It took time, but with external financing, it worked.
The Jews of the Arab world are a more tricky situation. Basically, have been harassed in their own homes, by the actions of genocidal horde that, "on behalf of the Jewish people", began to expel the Palestinians again in 1967. Ironically, most end up immigrating to the same genocidal horde that provoked the collective loathing, which now stretched its hand with a smile.
>>316023
Yes, which is maybe reasonable but far from the "hurrr muh Israel" certain people like to attribute American politicians.
>>316052
>taxpayer's money
What taxpayers you dolt? Virtually all early Zionist activity (pre-48) was financed by donations.
> exploding vehicles, attacking and preying farms and villages.
Name one instances where it happened.
>muh King David
Was the King David Hotel a vehicle, a farm or a village?
>The Jews of the Arab world are a more tricky situation. Basically, have been harassed in their own homes, by the actions of genocidal horde that, "on behalf of the Jewish people", began to expel the Palestinians again in 1967. Ironically, most end up immigrating to the same genocidal horde that provoked the collective loathing, which now stretched its hand with a smile.
I don't know what "genocidal hordes" are you referring to (nor do you, probably), but factually speaking the vast majority of Mizrahi Jews immigrated to Israel way before 1967.
It's bad enough we have /pol/lack infiltration here but why must they be so utterly clueless?
>>315764
Poor Arabs ;_;
Considering the events in Europe prior I wouldn't have had a second thought in getting away from there. Also, they brought liberty to what would be a sharia controlled authoritarian hell-hole. What's not to like?
>>317000
>what would be
It was already ruled by Ottoman law which included Sharia components.
Man desu if i was an average jew, and i was not connected to something high level.
like hollywood, our some other jewish spiel.
i would also go to isreal.
>>317088
That's the point, kinda. Israel is the land of Jewish losers. This is why a lot of western (particularly North American) Jews turn away from Zionism and are really fucking snobby about Israel.
>>316460
many jews immigrated out of arab countries right after israel was declared independant and the independance war.
In some countries there were arab pogroms and threats but not in all and their magnitude was mostly unsubstantial.
It was a combination of their own desire to move to israel(for various reasons) and some threats and killings in some of the countries.
They werent exactly expelled, it was somewhere in the middle between
Some thought(prior immigrants) that the messiah has come, according to the jewish prophecy.
>>317090
I didnt know this was the case...
Can you elaborate on this? Snobby in what way? What do they think about it?
>>318161
Haha if I was from any other culture (except for an asian one of course) I'd be considered a success, but since I'm not in medical or law school I'm pretty much failure. I too want to go to Israel. As for some of my more liberal family members, they hate Israel because they see it as similar to apartheid South Africa in the 80s, even though life is much better for Arabs in Israel than for Arabs in the territories.
>>318387
The more a question is about survival the smaller the part of moral considerations in the answer.
When you argue over a slice of pizza, moral and ethical considerations will win but when you are fighting for your life morality and ethics will not effect your actions.
Its easy to sit back in comfy US of A and preach about morals.
Lets see how their morals hold when they are in a positions that makes them fear for their lives.
>>312719
Churchill was always for it, but after the Nazi shenanigans people felt they should own a home and rule themselves, so why not put it in a biblical shithole suspiciously near the world supply of oil
>>319868
your post doesn't make much sense tbqh
>>313003
>stems from the American fundamentalists who support Israel because muh jeebus
uhh most american politicians only started supporting Israel after it was clear they were "the winners" and now they're just an easy way to import more American brand freedom on the region
>>321893
They often get it confused. Jesus is not an Israeli. He left the Judah's preachers. And never returned. He preached to the outside nations about the errors of humanity.
>>312719
Constant persecution made people think that the Jews needed their own state.
>>321892
Rock to face.
Or: The Jewish bougeasie cannot fuxking spell .. They are become soft. But the Hessian Proletariat rose again.
>>322806
1) take your pills
2) You do know that you're allowed to swear on 4chan? There are entire boards here devoted to drawings of children having sex with each other.
Would the world be a better place as a whole if they had followed Herzel's alternative idea of setting up jewish state in Argentina?
>>312719
Basically in parallel like niggers say they were Egyptians.
>WE WUZ HEBREWZ N SHIT
And made a claim to the land with a bible in hand.
However, don't be fooled OP, Zionism wasn't all that popular. A lot of Jews preferred to stay in Europe and integrate. A lot of them would put emphasis on nationality than religion (a "Jewish German" instead of a "German Jew"). Tho others did fancy the idea of having a country of their own because of >muh heritage.
>>315922
They're iq is like 15 points above the white average of course they're overrepresented
>>325778
One of the professors in my uni worked for the king of Jordan about a decade ago, his job was to measure the welfare of North African and Middle Eastern countries. In the end he got kicked out of the job because the index he developed ranked Israel on top of shitload of arab countries.
>>312891
fox news will save us
>>312999
Damn, I guess there's an Asian conspiracy in the USA then, right? Or let me guess, there's racism against niggers and that's why they're poor? Oh wait, you wouldn't say that, that would give you cognitive dissonance.
>>325809
>They're
Clearly your IQ is not above the average.
>>312891
so according to this chart the entirety of the Fox news board are suspected gays?
Or gays with a suspected connection to Jews?
>>325809
>>315922
It's easy to above the average IQ when universities accept your applications over whites. Universities do the same thing with other minorities, it always them first. Some liberals still have the Audacity to claim whites are the privileged ones.
>>326155
>gays
If you read closely, you'd notice it said Goys, not gays.
Whats the must read book on the history of the jewish state?
>>326236
>>326157
>this is how stormfags think IQ worms
You left out Asians who are the other overrepresented group in Harvard, is there a cabal of Tawainese and Indian Americans rigging admissions too?
>>326129
Pointing out grammatical mistakes is the lowest form of argumentation
>>327437
but they aren't.
In fact Affirmative Action systematically discriminates against asians by subtracting points from their SAT and adding points to hispanics and blacks. It's a de facto asian quota. The colleges are getting sued over it.
>>327501
That's pretty exclusive to California, they face discrimination a lot but they're still overrepresented.
>>327546
In California they are over-represented because they are race-blind.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/10/27/study-finds-race-growing-explanatory-factor-sat-scores-california
>>312719
Zionist interests aligned with Western interests. Britain/America knew they couldn't afford to lose the Middle East, either to the Soviets or to Arab nationalism. So they supported the creation of a strong, pro-Western state.
As for how a religion/race was strong enough to call its people together and build a new state, see: pretty much any civilization in history ever. Religion + race + superpower backing = success.
>>327678
They killed brits in terror attacks
>>326236
I don't know myself but you can see some introductory works in these links:
Zionism from Its Inception to 1948
http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199840731/obo-9780199840731-0006.xml?rskey=0ZxJVc&result=6&q=israel#firstMatch
Israeli Politics
http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199756223/obo-9780199756223-0059.xml?rskey=0ZxJVc&result=4&q=israel#firstMatch
Arab-Israeli Wars, 1948–Present
http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199791279/obo-9780199791279-0013.xml?rskey=0ZxJVc&result=13&q=israel#firstMatch
Bibliography on "Palestine (and the Israel Question)
http://pastebin.com/reDp2gLq
