What went wrong?
>>308033
Nationalism. It is a sad story.
Accordions
too isolationist + tried to mend it's deep cultural and religious problems solely with nationalism which is unsustainable
Muslims.
>>308208
Just what's the point of people and responses like you?
Do you think you're funny?
Do you honestly believe what you say in relation to the question?
It's idiots like you shitting up the board.
Muslims
>>308229
How about let's ignore this retard and actually discuss the topic at hand
>>308052
I don't think it was nationalism per se, but extreme localism that Balkans used to justify their minuscule ethnic groups as different from one European Slavic/Balkan ethnicity
A muslim, a catholic christian and an orthodox christian walk into a bar in which the bouncer has been dead for 10 years...
>>308229
I was like you the first day, then i realized it was pol 2, so it just doesn't matter.
Anyway, without muslims, it would have been a less fucked up situation.
>>308033
They remembered how much they hate each other.
He died.
>>308033
>Takes 5 distinct ethnic groups.
>Mash all of them in one shithole.
>This shithold happens to be ruled by a particular ethnic group.
What could possibly go wrong?
>>308406
>Take 5 distinct ethnic groups
>distinct ethnic groups
What the fuck are you even on about?
>>308449
French, Italians and Spaniards aren't the same people. They're Latin, but not the same.
You can argue that Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks speaks the same language, but they have enough traditions and history to be categorized as different ethnic groups.
It's worse for the Slovenes and Macedonians (once Bulgarians).
>>308459
I'm half croatian and half serbian and I can tell you that's absolute bullshit
>>308033
Serbian nationalism
>>308459
There are bigger difference between France cultures than difference between Serbia and Croatia.
Same goes for Italy and Spain which has bigger ethnical difference than ex-yu had
>>308459
I see a difference in the ethnicities, too.
Every Bosnian and Serb I've seen has looked T*rkish while every Macedon I've seen is a bleak shade of tan with wispy straight black hair while serbs and bosnians have curly midnight black.
>>308556
>t. alexandrovski
>>308229
>mfw mad muslims
>>308033
It didn't include Bulgaria. If Yugoslavia included Bulgaria the population of ethic Bulgars/"Macedonians" would approximately equal the population of ethnic Serbs/"Montenegrins". These two ethnicities would see each other as primary rivals and the Croats/Slovenians/Bosniaks/Kosovoans would act as a sort of balancing factor between the two, though the Croats and Slovenes would have to accept a Cyrillic alphabet. The population of the resulting Yugoslavia would rival Turkey, France, or Germany and be a united state from the Adriatic Sea to the Black Sea. It would have access to Blugarian oil wells and today would be an EU and NATO member with the balls to keep out Syrians, effectovely being the shield of Europe against kebab.
>>308033
Centuries of perceived slights and blood feuds, compounded with ultra-nationalism and radicalism
>>308699
>Croats and Slovenes would have to accept a Cyrillic alphabet.
Lol
Picture.
>>308547
There are noticable differences just between north and south Croatia. Don't just spread nonsense if you're not familiar with the topic.
>>308033
>Tito had plans to also throw in Albania and Bulgaria into the mix
Oh what could have been
Islam.
>>309204
t. Serb
>>308886
Add to this Tito largely engaged in policies that were divisive, cultural exchanges were rare and eventually became even rarer over time.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/review-essay/1995-07-01/titos-last-secret-how-did-he-keep-yugoslavs-together
It's a decent article.
>>308175
Underrated post
>>308886
Either this is biased towards the Croat position, or Serbs are shits.
>>309420
Of course it's biased. Croats are learning history from Wikipedia.
All these idiots posting about some unity and shit.
It's all tribal and MONETARY.
Free loans USA/FRA/UK loans stopped coming in. Fingers were pointed. Everything collapsed.
>>308886
This has a heavy pro Croat bias.
>>309341
>Add to this Tito largely engaged in policies that were divisive
For example?
>cultural exchanges were rare and eventually became even rarer over time.
You had mandatory conscription that mixed everyone together and placed them in different states for a year. You had Youth Work Actions, building the country's infrastructure. Many people moved around in search of jobs. People went to Bosnia and Slovenia to ski in winter and to Croatia in summer. People had more interaction with other ethnic groups than average bavarian has with Schleswig-Holstein.
>>309139
Plus Romania and Greece
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_Federation
>>311496
>Balkania
Oh man...
Either the greatest country in all of Europe or the harbinger of WW3.
>>311689
>Either the greatest country in all of Europe or the harbinger of WW3.
>Greece vs Macedonia
>wahabis vs bosniaks
>Serbia vs everyone
Fugg
In all honesty I can't imagine us successfully united (ie not killing each other nor trying to get out). Maybe if somehow we kill everybody and populate this place with others or import enough other slavs (baltics?) to thin out nationalistic groups. Probably the only surefire way is just to go full Caesar mode and conquer them all somehow.
Democracy works really badly in Balkans, I wonder why.
>>311741
Kill the fucking Serbs. It's always their fault. Always
>>311742
They don't call Serbia mini-Russia for nothin'.
Serbia and Russia are the reason some (if not most) people see slavs as nothing more than snowniggers. Truly scum of the earth.
>>311770
They want to be imperialistic so bad but every time they try to do something about it things always backfire.
>>311440
Which part do you disagree with?
>>311770
At least russia has ruled itself since the Rus' fell. Serbia is the manlet state; it tries so hard to be big and important but it's just small and unimportant
>>311894
Sorry your shitty country has done nothing positive ever
And Croatians and Shqiptars did what positive exactly?
What makes them better than Serbs?
>>311945
They didn't commit multiple genocides and start WW1
>>311796
It's not per se disagreement, it's just bias and use of some (hurr durr) loaded phrases that indicates the author is a younger Croat.
Issue with Balkan history is that it's full of historic revisionism for political purposes and possible suppression by the commie government. You can filter out the obvious bullshit, like Serbs are God's chosen people and ancestor to every human. You can filter out some of the insane antiserb bias in Croatia where they invented a whole new fucking language just to remove words that are perceived as serbian. You can poke holes in theories, like the one that bosniaks are descendants of Bogumils who when forced to convert to Christianity magically converted to Islam instead. You can't however remove years of much smaller lies and propaganda from the truth.
For example, Croatia as a (totally not buttfucked) part of Austro-Hungarian empire was exposed to today's noble ideals (?) but Serbs who were buttfucked by the ottomans somehow decided to be imperialists (?). No, Serbs had their own Kingdom before the ottomans and they btfo them so hard that their national pride is hurt today, 650 years later. They didn't need Russians to tell them anything (although they are a factor), nor were they somehow ignorant of the noble ideals (well, not more than an average croat), they just didn't give a fuck.
>>311998
WWII era is iffy as well. While there were muslims in the ustashe, 30% is either inflating the number of Muslims or deflating the number of ustashe. No, I'll need a source for a fucking third which isn't propaganda. Second of all he's missing a lot of important parts about the end of WWII, how many chetniks when faced with loss turned into partisans and how that resulted in Bleiburg and how hatred that incited towards communists affected Croatia later on.
He's also not mentioning the huge issue of vacuum of power that happened after Tito's death. You had people fighting for power and eventually dissolving the union to rule over their own Republic. Tito was pretty good at ruling, pretty bad at making a lasting country.
>there's no evidence that Croatia did any genocide
Of course, only a Croat would say it this definitely as there are still a lot of people who'd call what Gotovina did a war crime. Then again I'm not an expert on the Croat part of the war.
>Serbs are the bad guys
Easy to argue that, but I'm biased myself here, if you Croats didn't decide to secede, many lives would be saved and they'd be living much better than they are right now. It's a matter of who won really, if South won the civil war and seceded, we'd be learning how the north were the aggressors. They tried to preserve the union for selfish reasons, and when they failed that they tried their best to get the largest part of the bosnian pie. They succeeded at that, seeing that Republika Srpska exists as a quasi state and it might eventually secede from Bosnia.
Tl;dr fall of this yugoslavia, in my opinion, makes building a new one in the form of US an huge improbability. I can't see it in any way.
The attempted genocides mostly.
>>311957
Serbs didn't start WW1,and Croatians commited the largest scale genocide after in Europe after the Armeniand and the Holocaust.
>>312038
>this is what Serbs actually believe
You a good guy you dindu nuffin
>>312053
What is he wrong about?
>>312088
Serbs not starting ww1 and that the croats independently genocided serbs in the independent state of croatia
>>312098
> croats independently genocided serbs in the independent state of croatia
Topkek
Seriously, what do they teach about Jasenovac in croatian schools today?
>>312098
holy shit hahahaha
>>312098
>WW1
Deliberately started by Austria using the assassination as a pretext
>Genocide
Dindu nuffin
>>312118
I'm not even Croatian
The NDH was a puppet state
>>312133
You can say that about any malicious states
>>312133
>The NDH was a puppet state
Thus unable to commit genocide? Unwillingly?
>>312171
>The assassination was the definite spark that started the war
He acted independently and Serbia obviously didn't want to get into a confrontation with Austria unlike Austria who was eagerly looking for a pretext.
If Croat genocides don't count then this sure doesn't.
>>308253
>European Slavic/Balkan ethnicity
>>313015
>that pepe
Raziocinante pls
>>308033
Economical and mainly political problems.
>>312171
>Thus blaming the croats for it is illogical
>le only following orders meme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdU6ngDhrAA
>all these people
You don't see gatherings of such size anywhere anymore.
>>313891
Yeah but that's because people are more cynical and pessimistic and don't go to rallies, not because of how well the politicians have spoken
>>308277
kek pretty much this
>>308334
this t b h f a m
bump
>>308033
My understanding of things is that after Tito died things became chaotic do to there being no one who could fill his shoes. If Tito had set up one person to take his place instead if the annual rotation of leaders after his death, Yugoslavia might have survived.
>>312098
t. Ante
>>308406
Despite Tito being a Croat, most of the government was Serb.
>>312023
As soon as milosevic came to power it wasn't really choosing whether or not to secede. Serbs held a disproportionate amount of power for sure and people just felt threatened. I'm not saying we didn't commit any war crimes, far from that, I'm just saying Slovenia and Bosnia seceded just as we did. If we sided with the Serbians it would've just meant us and the Serbs vs the Slovenes and Bosniaks and possibly even the Macedonians and Kosovars.
Though I do agree it's not nearly as black and white as people like to act it is. Tudman is treated as a saint here, people all to quick to forget he was in talks with milosevic and had to be forced to hep Bosnia.
>>319133
Though to be fair, I'm pretty sure I it was tudman instead of milosevic the same would've happened, just with us as the bad guys.
