When did you realize that humanity isn't special?
Why haven't we found signs of intelligent alien life yet? According to some experts we would have found them by now.
The capacity to think of ourselves as "not special" makes us pretty damn special.
>>302055
What if we are the most intelligent species in whole space, and other species are behind us technologically. Scary isn't it.
>>302067
What if there are no other species who are even capable of learning to write?
the fact that you can even conceptualize yourself makes you extremely special.no other thing can do this
>>302067
It's very likely.
Compared to the Universe humans are extremely special.
>>302055
There is absolutely no reason we should have found anything yet. We've only been searching for an infinitesimally small amount of time in an infinitesimally small amount of the universe.
>>302048
Human brain is just a more complex wiring than a photodiode. See Integrated Information Theory of consciousness which is a scientific version of panpsychism
>>302065
"thinking outside the box" can be achieved by theorem enumeration which any computational medium can do just as easily.
>>302055
or AI
>>302067
appealing to transcendental dialectics. Not even once.
>>302073
How do you know a fish doesn't conceptualize itself?
>>302073
Intelligent aliens can
>>302048
about the time I discovered Reddit and learned that having an aloof and detached attitude towards everything allows me to feel superior without ever having to defend my opinions
>>302055
>According to some experts
They're shit experts
No, but for real, theres tons of reasons why no alien life has contacted us yet.
>>302073
I'm pretty sure whales, dolphins, gorillas and chimps can do that.
>>302088
>"thinking outside the box" can be achieved by theorem enumeration which any computational medium can do just as easily.
"outside the box" doesn't cover that.
>>302107
We better bomb them all before they get dangerous then.
>>302088
>How do you know a fish doesn't conceptualize itself?
>see friend get baited on a hook
>decide to eat the same shit he did
>see friend jump out of water and eaten by bear
>do the same
>see that i could jump back in the water if i wiggle and flop in a certain way
>just lay there
>>302107
are you seriously saying you can teach a monkey anything beyond scribbling on paper?
>>302117
>the fish does stupid things
>therefore I know it can't conceptualize itself
Great non-argument.
>>302127
Self-conceptualization has nothing to do with how advanced your learning ability is.
>>302129
its a fucking fish, all it does is respond to stimuli with its pea brain
>>302139
And all you do is respond to stimuli with your big brain. An iPad might seem like magic compared to an old 17 button calculator, but they are still just doing the same thing.
>>302094
>>302088
>"thinking outside the box" can be achieved by theorem enumeration which any computational medium can do just as easily.
Pretty sure a computational system can't think that up, other wise it would be a very advanced AI.
>>302149
what?
no.
It really has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Just go read about neurosciences and the sort.
Learn a thing or two
>>302088
>Human brain is just a more complex wiring than a photodiode. See Integrated Information Theory of consciousness which is a scientific version of panpsychism
This is like saying when you write on a page, that becomes the page's "consciousness".
>>302055
No such expert exists. Literally not a single one: to say we should have, or ought to have, found signs of intelligent alien life, is the same as not being an expert on the subject.
>>302114
well, that wouldnt be very nice would it?
Would you kill this poor gorilla?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNuZ4OE6vCk
>>302048
>>302065
Humanity is very special. The fact that we're even having this conversation should show that - not just that we can conceptualize it, but also that we're having it over the fucking internet.
At the very least you have to concede that humanity is unique. Being "unique" vs "special" just depends on how cynical you want to be - which I would argue is unjustified.
>>302167
This is me, i can pretend to be almost anyone and it's very hard for me to be myself which is probably why the only girlfriends i ever had were smart ones who shared an interest in science and history with me.
>>302127
you can teach him basic sign language.
>>302185
so the first seeds that were planted, the first words written had nothing to do with conceptualization and viewing humans as something more than sole ego driven organisms?
protip: you cant teach an ant to read if it dosent even have cognitive a concept of what "reading" is
>>302179
No. Any symbolic system can enumerate well-formed formula(strings in symbolic logic). But does it have consciousness, to what degree, for what purpose? That's the hard problem of consciousness.
>>302191
Consciousness arises from feedback loops consisted of nodes and edges. We are talking about different things here.
>>302206
Anthropocentric nonsense.
>>302212
Language system == thought system == knowledge system
Any polyglot understands this. If you want to think about something in another language you have to locate the corresponding symbols in your brain.
>>302223
>protip: you cant teach an ant to read if it dosent even have cognitive a concept of what "reading" is
You can't teach a computer to do addition unless it has a cognitive concept of what addition is.
>>302245
but literal humans program computers
I am trans-ayylmao. You may laugh at such a claim, but when you carefully consider the modern ayylmao narrative, the reasons for my decision are clear. What are the characteristics of ayylmaos as popularly understood by man? They are sexless, gangly, large-headed, indistinguishable via outward body features. Their faces consist of nebulous eyes and diminutive slit-mouths. They communicate through telepathy--they are truly divorced from all the problems we humans try to mask with logocentrism. The ayylmao CAN directly communicate the platonic ideal. The ayylmao is not bound by impurities and ambiguities native to verbal simulacra.
The ayylmao, in its sexlessness, is free from any biological imperative clouding its judgment. It interacts with other ayylmaos in contexts devoid of sexual pathos. The ayylmao does not know race, it does not know nationality. Any conflict between ayylmaos--if such conflicts do exist--is predicated on pragmatism. The ayylmao does not suffer existential angst, it does not suffer sexual frustration, it does not suffer prejudice. Ayylmaos simply work together like a synchronized machine to push ever forward the gradient of scientific progress and inquiry. The ayylmao does not come to earth for pain or pleasure, but to know. The ayylmao is not bound by group identities like ‘Anglophile’ or ‘Pedophile’. The only desire known by an ayylmao is Epistemophilia.
Consider, despite the fear society has marred ayylmaos with--the totalizing necessitation that they are villains, demon-like monsters, aliens-- they represent a humanity in sublime transcendence of vice, left only with virtue. The grey man in the spacecraft does not worry about socioeconomic inequality or fear street violence. It does not fear rape, it does not have children in need of protection. The ayylmao is a perfect organism.
You may protest that in the ayylmao’s lack of human problems it lives a life with no free-will, no imperatives, and no pain with which it can, through juxtaposition, find contentment.
On the contrary, one must look at what the ayylmao does with its time: it whizzes through our night skies, hovers over our architectural achievements, cruises past endless meadows and canyons and forests and waterfalls, seemingly unbound by physical laws of aerodynamics or fuel necessity. The ayylmao, in tacit introspection, drinks every fold of Earth, knowing its purpose, and yet absolutely free. When the ayylmao runs across the road in a flyover state on a drowsy twilight, passing in front of that retired police officer and disappearing into a cornfield, using its powers to make sure the photo he took comes out blank, it knows exactly what it’s doing. It relishes in its existence, while its human counterpart works long hours to sit in a house and hope another spousal argument doesn’t break out. While the human pats himself on the back for climbing the mountain in his singular vacation week, the ayylmao, with a twinkle in its eye, stands atop the mountain every day--atop every mountain, every day. The ayylmao is the mountain.
So yes. I am thin, I am silent. I want to sail the solar winds, crawl weightless through the night sky. I want to shine lights on cities, and know the whispers of our elementary particles. I want to see in ultraviolet, hear the hum of quantum foam. I want to be indulgent, but free of sin. I am a trans-ayylmao, and I am proud.
Please note that I prefer the term to be pronounced in three syllables, following:
eye-luh-moe
As if you were saying ‘Alamo’ with a hard ‘eye’ sound for the first letter.
>>302253
So? Literal humans build houses, that doesn't mean a house has a cognitive concept of what a house is. Look how simple an addition circuit is
>>302270
im talking about organisms, not tools.
>>302276
Then explicitly define these things before continuing. A math circuit made out of neurons isn't that much different than one made out of silicon in function.
>>302288
my whole point is humanity is the only thing aware of its existence and has seeked to preserve itself for thousands of years. the only thing that come close to the cognitive levels of humanity are small monkey groups which is no where near the level of humans
>>302276
pretty sure a computer can be considered an organism.
>>302315
>the only thing aware of its existence
monkeys recognize themselves in mirrors
>seeked to preserve itself
every organism ever and yet to come(AI)
>>302315
>my whole point is humanity is the only thing aware of its existence
not true
>and has seeked to preserve itself for thousands of years
so has every lifeform ever. big deal
>the only thing that come close to the cognitive levels of humanity are small monkey groups which is no where near the level of humans
sure, but that doesnt automatically makes us super-duper special though
just another milestone in earths biospheres history
>>302315
>the only thing that come close to the cognitive levels of humanity are small monkey groups which is no where near the level of humans
So? And what if there are super intelligent aliens out there? Why is intelligence so important?
>>302335
>humanity
>humanity
>humanity
>a single monkey
>a single monkey
>a single monkey
>>302350
It's ok, this isn't /b/. You can use your words
>>302361
youre not getting it, theres a difference between humanity inventing shit to further themselves and a monkey dancing in front of a mirror. why havent monkeys invented language then?
>>302345
>So? And what if there are super intelligent aliens out there? Why is intelligence so important?
its not, im pointing something out thats unique
>>302342
>not true
im not seeing any evidence of fish working together on a international scale to perserve their existence
>>302350
shut up fag. An ant colony is conscious to an anteater since it can see whether the distribution castes are producing fat clueless soldier ants.
This goes back to the false reductionism-holism dichotomy.
>>302374
>why havent monkeys invented language then?
Why haven't humans put bases on other planets and given everyone free energy via fusion reactors? I guess humans aren't special.
>>302374
>im pointing something out thats unique
Intelligence isn't unique, almost every animal has varying levels of it.
>>302342
>humanity
>life form
>>302374
>im not seeing any evidence of fish working together on a international scale to perserve their existence
see >>302378
either way, we're far from working on a "international scale to preserve our existence"
if anything the last 100 years was an example of humanity working together on a international scale to get ourselves wiped out from the face of the earth
>>302067
Actually, this is a popular theory as of late.
Some scientist think humanity and Earth in general is unique because the planet supports life this early into universe's timespan
So we're potentially the ancient aliens.
>>302378
i agree however thats not what im saying. International anteaters have nowhere near as much as humanity though, because if they were they would come up with better ways to do things. They would also probably create written language and write books on identifying the best ants to eat, and where to find them.
>>302389
if "monkey-kind" have the same self awarence as humanity then they would have language by now according to you
>>302390
i agree
>>302441
>if "monkey-kind" have the same self awarence as humanity then they would have language by now according to you
It has nothing to do with self-awareness, it has to do with the ability to learn quickly. Just because that 13yo kid at Harvard can pick up 7 languages before you doesn't mean that he is more self-aware than you.
>>302450
>Just because that 13yo kid at Harvard can pick up 7 languages before you doesn't mean that he is more self-aware than you.
????
The fact that we have Harvard in the first place is because we, as humanity, decided it would be good for us to learn several languages. Im not talking about some random person, im talking about the collective socio-gentic entity
>>302443
>anthropocentric
You keep using that word as if it is an impenetrable rebuttal to everything people are telling you.
Not at all. Anthropocentric implies some kind of human supremacy. I dont exactly believe this.
A tiger might claw and bite and tear you to shreds, but only a human would think of nailing your ears to a board or whatever.
Notice how in either case there is a certain uniqueness - a "special" human touch.
>retard
Lol, losing an argument so the insults begin. Why are you even tripping
>>302507
>define this term
Knowing that you're there? Being aware of yourself?
>>302505
do you realize how ambiguous the world special is?
>>302531
About as ambiguous as the word "beautiful", it's completely subjective
>>302538
exactly
>>302055
>experts
I fucking hate that word.
>>302562
>how do you measure consciousness?
How do you measure stableness?
>>302502
Anthropocentrism means assessing through a uniquely human perspective and rejects the transcendental without recognizing forces of nature.
so you're saying being able to use tools and nail people in the head somehow makes human superior than other species. Ants can lift 50x their weight. Whales can communicate using sonic waves. What makes them inferior to us? One day if an AI has consciousness, will it view us as inferior since it's surpassed humanity in terms of cognition?
>>302085
Not to mention with incredibly shitty technology
We barely but effort into looking anyways
>>302601
I don't understand how you can invoke artificial intelligence while denying that humanity is special. The fact that one day humanity might build one says a lot about how special we are.
>>302614
yes. One day an AI will look at the evolutionary past and think how special it is(hopefully it won't though cuz that'll be a grim failure)
>>302614
hey anon I thought more about it. It's mostly a difference of opinions. Both are logically sound
how are humans not special?
>>302777
how are they?
>>302614
not as special as the aliens that already built one
>>302048
/pol/ get out
>>302089
>whereiseverybody.jpeg
>>304048
http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html
fun read
>>302998
well for one we made 4chins and are having this conversation on it.
>>304272
So?
>>302223
Human writing systems didn't emerge from self-conceptualisation, they were just our basic communicative functions and species skills intermingling with our basic creative and tool-using functions and species skills in a brand new, complex, blossoming social environment (a settled town or city) in which new necessities and new niches meant new skills and techniques came about. Our communication skills and our creative and tool-using skills had already had a shared relationship for thousands of years beforehand (prehistoric cave art and sculpture being used to convey ideas and images), but it was still just a natural function of those abilities our species have, coupled with reaction to stimuli.
>>302048
Prove we arent
>>302276
organisms are tools
>>304525
i havnt seen anything else do anything so complicated. birds arent building a-bombs and turtles dont have social media
>>302075
well humans are doubtlessly the most complex things in the universe.
>>304272
that makes us seem especially bad
>>304639
how is something being bad make it not special?
>>304632
yeah but can humans fly unaided, or protect themselves from attack just by receding into the plates of their own skeleton? tool-making and complex verbal communication is just another evolutionary advantage, like microchiropteran echolocation or that floating thing sea otters do.
>>304642
woah
When people use the argument from technology to argue for the inherent specialness of Homo sapiens, they sound like /pol/ posters comparing different 'racial achievements' or whatever
>Human: been around for 200 thousand year, greatest achievement: art, culture, technology, etc.
>Bird: been around 85 million year, greatest achievement: feather, beak, bird poop, etc.
>AND LIBERALS WANT US TO THINK WE'RE EQUAL???
>>304644
i think your argument is idiotic, because you dont choose evolution. that being said i happen to think birds are special too. if you look into cosmology there is a whole lot of nothing going on out there, pretty much anything alive seems to be pretty special at this point
>>304684
>because you dont choose evolution
Neither did we choose the technological advancements our species has made in the past 200,000 years. They were part of the process of our evolutionary development. Free will doesn't real btw.
>if you look into cosmology there is a whole lot of nothing going on out there
Well that's a dumb thing to say, we haven't even sent probes to planets outside of our solar system and there are plenty of potential Goldilocks planets out there. What do you expect cosmologists and astronomers to find, messages from flying saucers? Who's to say life will even manifest on another world in the same manner it has done here?
>>304684
technology isn't a decision or choice, it's an evolved human ability. stop being stupid.
What do you faggots think of the Fermi paradox and the Great Filter?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformity_of_motive
>>304713
i think it's pretty gay mate
>>304713
don't buy into the idea that just because there's probably 10 million billion possible intelligent civilisations out there and maybe 100,000 intelligent civilisations in our galaxy. we would've had to have had any contact with them or SETI should've picked up their signals. Who's to say they'd even communicate with electromagnetic waves like radios or laser beams or whatever? Who's to say they haven't moved past that already or something? especially the thing about super-advanced civilisations 3 billion years better than us. No global civilisation is going to last for 3 billion years, it'd self destruct in no time at all, relatively.
>>304862
I reckon there's probably some giant galactic community out their and they have laws which means they're forbidden from contacting us until we physically leave our solar system, which is a forbidden zone to non-natives. like the prime directive. they dampen all their radio and laser signal somehow so seti dont pick em up.
observation selection effect is the shittest meme ever, i hate it
>>302127
There was a parrot that asked an existential question. Spooky shit. Bird people are right around the corner.
>>304862
Also don't forget that SETI literally reach 100 light years away from us (0.1% across the galaxy).
>>302048
>posting heresy shit
>with xeno shit pic
By the Emperor!!!
>>302210
And yet, here I am with distinction average in a biochemistry degree and all my girlfriends have been idiots.
Why?
>>302212
they can't string together more than two or three signs, which also have no grammatical logic to them
>>302048
After I studied biology in college
I didn't because I'm not a retarded environmentalist.
Humans are God's children,and the rightful heirs to the universe and before you say anything, ayyliums don't exist
>>307467
Well they may exist, but if they do, they aren't humans, and therefore inferior. They must either accept human rule or be destroyed.
>>302048
Only in the sense that specialness does not exist save for in our minds.
>>302067
We should go fuck 'em up
>>302166
I can't watch anime on my calculator desu
>>304869
I thought this too, but I started wondering how such a political entity came into being. From what we can gather, one intelligent race happening upon another intelligent race is quite rare, granted that we are the only example of an "intelligent race" that we have. So let's say one race and another make contact and establish diplomatic relations. Imagine how long that might take for ONE intelligent species to find ANOTHER intelligent species on another planet and not annihilate each other/themselves in the process. And then they must find many, many more in order to establish some sort of galactic government or at least a semblance of communication. It seems almost impossible.
That doesn't mean it hasn't/can't happen, but it doesn't seem likely that there is some pre-existing galactic federation ready to welcome us with open arms.
>>302048
When I realized how intelligent corvids, parrots, apes, and dolphins are.
When
>>302127
>monkey
>not ape
>>304658
this desu senpai
>>304895
BAVI
>>304895
Link/source?
>>302055
Because those lifeforms have to overcome the same sheer distance to discover and reach out to us.
>>302048
Around the time I first realized that I wasn't special.
Realizing the same applied to all of humanity was the next logical step.
>>304658
I wonder who could be behind this post...
>>302048
When I realized if I had grown-up in caveman days with no one to teach me things then I would be as illiterate and stupid as an ape.
>>304590
>prove a negative
That's not how this works
>>302048
I wonder if aliens would keep us as pets or just wipe us out
>>302048
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter
Required thread reading
>>314711
>completely missing the point of the thread
>>302167
Looks like they struck a nerve.
>>302048
The moment I realized the "false until proven otherwise" way of taking in new information work almost 100% of the time.
>>315426
Pretty much this. Innocent until proven guilty.
We are on Earth, at least.
I mean, we might not be unique in the universe, but in a Universe where even Life is rare, intelligent life is even more so. I guess it depends on your definition of special.
We marvel at how intelligent other animals can be, but in the end our closest, most intelligent relatives are still only at a Toddler's level.
>Humans are special because we can make computers and shit, science bro!
>Humans are special according to criteria set by humans
This is just a very removed way of saying "I'm the best because I say so"
>>316069
>humans are pre-programmed by evolution to value intelligence
>a human thinks they are special for being intelligent
My sides
>>302048
When I saw this pic
>>302067
>I will never get to bang hot space babes with green skin
>but I may yet live to bang hot space cave-babes with green skin
A space cat is fine too.
>>302071
What if OP wasn't a faggot?
>>302577
Some people are experts, but they have knowledge within a specific field, instead of being vague entities you quote as dogma on every subject ever.
>>316080
>humans are pre-programmed by evolution to value intelligence
The existence of rednecks, niggers and muslims disproves your hypothesis.
>>302601
>Ants can lift 50x their weight. Whales can communicate using sonic waves. What makes them inferior to us?
We made the atomic bomb, Now we have the power to end all earth, No other animal has this option. Thats why they are inferior
>>302245
Are you saying that we don't have to understand what we're doing... as long as we can do it?
>>316080
Humans are pre-programmed to be resourceful, and adaptable, not intelligent.
Intelligence is a benign feature that came with the ability to problem solve.
>>302243
>Trying too hard
>https://www.reddit.com/r/iamverysmart
>>316398
> implying that they don't value intelligence too, just in different ways
> Billy Bob sure is smart! He done make moonshine that don't make you blind AND he fixed Bobby John's shooting gun too!
> Abdullah Muhammed is most wise. He memorise all of Holy Quran AND he repair Muhammad Mohammed's AK47!
>>316428
Bubba would be correct name when describing a redneck.
>>316405
One could argue that animals are still superior, by the same reason.
Just because we're fucking shitty enough to devote time to killing each other more efficiently, and happen to have created something to end life on the planet, does not make us superior.
>Humanity's not special
I never get why people make this claim and then are pessimistic about humanity. Humanity not being special could mean that nothing is of value including humanity or that everything is of value including humanity.
One answer is just taken without really openly tackling the decision.
>>316398
No, no, nature still values intelligence.
But humans value subordinates
>>302048
Being "special" means nothing. What makes a species "special"? This is just you pessimistically renouncing life and humanity, just the expression of your feelings and nothing else.
>>316581
This. People tend to believe that humanity is the shit they have in front of their eyes. I bet they never have heard of esoteric Buddhism or Tibetan non-sense in their boring lives.
>>302048
Specialness is a spook
>>317097
/thread
>>316581
Value has nothing to do with being special, nitwit
>>318128
It could and in the sense we're discussing it has everything to do with value.
>>318398
>It could
Completely subjective, that's why your "choice" is irrelevant
>>318409
Not at all. The choice ending up a religious one is extremely common and, besides that, the OP posted it with an image relating to religious thinking so it's in no way a random guess that's the interpretation he was going with.
And, of course, you're also moving goalposts.
That value has nothing to do with being special and referring to something's speciality and which interpretation of it being used are two different topics and two that are also contradictory: You can't have possible interpretations if it has nothing to do with it.
So stop being childish.
>>318468
>The choice ending up a religious one is extremely common
Way to go off topic, sperglord
>That value has nothing to do with being special
It's subjective, didn't anyone teach you to think before you speak
>So stop being childish.
Says the autistic tripfag
>>318468
>So stop being childish.
Ironing: The post
