I wonder, how many got sick and died in the internment camps in America during WWII? Their living conditions were terrible.
>>300299
1862 Japanese Americans died in internment. Most of them from sicknesses related to old age.
Funnily enough, 5981 people were born in internment.
>>300318
Their living conditions were terrible compared to how most people get to live and what they were used to, but not as bad as the living conditions of those in concentration camps in Europe, or Soviet gulags. It doesn't surprise me that some of them got sick and died. Thanks for telling me the answer to that, I'm somewhat surprised someone here knew.
>>300372
Agreed, I just didn't want it to seem like I was saying it was as bad as that.
>>300299
>>300318
>>300348
>>300372
>>300382
I didn't know what i expected coming into this thread, but im actually surprised this hasnt derailed at all...
uhm... thank you i guess..
Imagine the death toll if America was strained for supplies and getting bombed continously?
(^:
>>301727
Yes, explain to me how bombing coal and iron working regions in western Germany prevented food and medical supplies from eastern Germany and beyond from going to camps in Poland.
For that matter, explain why the death toll was so much higher among Jews and Soviet PoWs as opposed to French, British, and American PoWs. Surely, if it was because of allied bombing, everyone would have starved more or less equally.
>>301733
Are you saying allies did not bomb rail yards, trains, and at points concentration camps themselves?
>>301736
I'm saying that the bulk of the strategic bombing campaign was concentrated on areas and industries which would not have been linked to the camps with the highest mortality rates in Poland.
And that furthermore, if Allied interdiction was to blame for death tolls, then why are the death rates so much higher for "Untermenschen" as opposed to western power prisoners?
Ergo, the death rates in the camp are almost certainly not because of Allied bombing, but rather because of deliberate killing on the part of the Nazi state.
>>301760
Because there was a higher percentage of them in the camps. No?
>>301763
There were more Poles, Jews, Russians, etc, in the camps, yes, but I don't see why that would be relevant.
I'd direct your attention to
Ferguson, Niall (2004), "Prisoner Taking and Prisoner Killing in the Age of Total War: Towards a Political Economy of Military Defeat", War in History 11 (2), p. 186
About 5% of British PoWs held by the Germans died in captivity. The French, only a smidgen higher, 5.2%. 57.5% of Soviet PoWs held by the Germans died in camps.
Allied bombing, especially since the bombing was relatively more intensive in the more western regions of Germany (which held more of the WAllies prisoners) than places like Poland and Eastern Germany, where the Soviets usually ended up, is not a particularly persuasive argument.
Nothing transformed my understanding of Eurocentrism more than when I started realizing what took place immediately after the end of World War 2. WW2 is usually cast as a global war between "democracy and freedom" versus "fascism and tyranny". But of course, that narrative overlooks how German fascism and Nazism was itself a natural consequence of Western colonialism and racism--twin pillars of the so-called "democracy" and "civilization" of the West. This is pointed out beautifully in Aime Cesaire's Discourse on Colonialism. To quote a passage from this essay in Monthly Review on anti-colonialism and Cesaire:
> He provocatively points out that Europeans tolerated “Nazism before it was inflicted on them, that they absolved it, shut their eyes to it, legitimized it, because, until then, it had been applied only to non-European peoples; that they have cultivated that Nazism, that they are responsible for it, and that before engulfing the whole of Western, Christian civilization in its reddened waters, it oozes, seeps, and trickles from every crack.” So the real crime of fascism was the application of colonial procedures to white people “which until then had been reserved for the Arabs of Algeria, the coolies of India, and the blacks of Africa”.
Nothing confirms this more than the fact that Allied forces, immediately after the defeat of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, turned their guns on the various colonies across Africa and Asia who had used the chaos of WW2 to organize and set up their own independent anti-colonial armies and parallel government structures. Some examples in addition to the example of the British re-occupation of Malaya:
World War 2 was not about democracy--it was about preventing the violent contradictions of European colonialism from taking over in Europe, while simultaneously maintaining the global system of colonialism.
>>301805
Regardless, death tolls would still be significantly higher.
As the bombing of trains and yards made it significantly harder to transport materials and food to eastern camps, especially when there was a shortage across the board.
I also don't trust Soviet death records. As they have shown to be... inflated.
They are noted for killing their own PoWs.
>>301727
You know what else would have made the death tolls higher? If the US government was systematically exterminating the Japanese in the camps.
>>301902
I have no idea what you're talking about.
(^:
>>300299
>Their living conditions were terrible
not to mention the 350,000+ people killed by the japs using handguns & swords in nanking china, completely witnessed and reported by news orgs from all western nations
that is why USA interred the japanese
fucking gdamn libbies never mention this fact when complaining about WW2 things
>>301988
What do soldiers in China have to do with innocent, U.S. citizens in the United States?
>>301988
>not to mention the 350,000+ people killed by the japs using handguns & swords in nanking china, completely witnessed and reported by news orgs from all western nations
So... what do Japanese soldiers in China have to do with American citizens stripped of humans, property and liberty without due process solely because of their nationality--and appearance, since German and Italian Americans did not receive nearly the same treatment? (No German Americans were forcibly expelled from their homes, most of the internned people in 'German' camps were German nationals/citizens living in the USA, not German-Americans, and every single one was treated as an individual case decided by a panel)
>>302047
German Americans and Italian Americans had been there for a long ass time and integrated basically fully.
Most of the interned Japanese were new, or first generation m8.
>>302064
>German Americans and Italian Americans had been there for a long ass time and integrated basically fully.
>Most of the interned Japanese were new, or first generation m8.
Source that most of the interned Japanese-Americans were 'new' and that German-Americans were 'integrated' fully?
>>302110
M8.
East Asians had been flooding into the Americas for quite some times.
Germans had been there for a good hundred years.
Do you not know the history of immigration in the US?
>>302047
>forcibly expelled from their homes
>solely because of their nationality--and appearance
I can only imagine this must have been extremely traumatic. Especially if they had to leave behind a spouse and child. It's upsetting.
>>301867
>death records
those death records could have easily come from the nazis themselves
>>302064
>>302110
>Most of the interned Japanese were new, or first generation
So if they had half-asian/half-white children, those children and their spouse would in fact have been left behind with the spouse left to the task of explaining it to their kid why their other parent has disappeared? In 1942-1946..? Would someone have necessarily have even ever found out if one of their parents went to the internment camps, and didn't make it?
>>301443
You jinxed it.
>>302110
Anti-chinese/anti-japanese sentiment were common in the era that many laws were passed to bar them from entering the country and make sure they would not integrate in the society.
Immigration quota + marriage between asian/white was illegal.
>>303356
I'm not going to derail it. But the possibility that some people could have had one of their parents go to one of these internment camps, die of illness, and not make it out, and never even find out what really happened to their parent, is scary as all hell.
>>303361
>marriage between asian/white was illegal
So if racemixing occurred anyways, they wouldn't be legally married? That's interesting to know.
It's sickening..
>>303373
>and never even find out what really happened to their parent, is scary as all hell.
They would find out. The people were interred, not stripped of all humanity. Those who died would do so in hospitals.
of course, that didn't stop many americans of japanese descent from fighting in WW2.
>>303438
I'm completely sure their spouses would have surely have known, but their spouse could probably tell some comforting lie to any children they had. Then, if they had some kind of health problem and passed away during the duration of their stay, I'm not sure if their kid would even necessarily know what happened.
>>303448
They did a damn fine job of it, too.
>>301805
Id say that it played a role.
U.s. didnt have genocidal purges going on like russia germany but it definitly had more flexability going into the war. Germany had two options, get alsace lorrain keked or invade poland on a loan
.
Russia mostly was lacking money. Their economy was totalled and they Stalin served in ww1 with units in the red army using cannibalism to survive iirc, and things where only barely better after ww2.
Also the stalingrad germans should not have surrendured. 95% of pows died. Top kek.
>>303616
they were mostly from hawaii and california.
>>303448
On the european front, mostly.
>>303448
most decorated american infantry regiment in the entire war
true american heroes
>>303692
I'd think at least some were used as interpreters in the Pacific.
>>303746
Nope. Because we didn't trust them.
>>303361
That's not a source.
>>303827
>Chinese exclusion act
>presidential agreement between Teddy and Japanese emperor
>chinese/Japanese not allowed in California schools
>>303880
That's not a source. I asked for a source backing up the statistics of "most Japanese-Americans who were interned were 'new' but German-Americans and Italian-Americans were fully integrated."
>>303735
Really? Over the big red one or the 101st airborne?
>>301820
/his/ seems to be a board where tripfags are not only tolerable, but pretty gud at times.
Thank you for posting what you did, it was quite insightful. I really enjoyed the point about whites being treated like colonials, that's a correlation I had never made before - seems like a solid argument.
>>303448
It makes the internment camps just seem that much more unnecessary, huh?
>>303950
Lets remember that the discrimination reasons for the us, russia and germany were differant.
The u.s. effectivally lured japan into attacking them by placing sanctions. U.S. basically had to be on team allies because of their British trade, which was happening even when Germany told them to stop. Japan declared war on the U.S. because of the sanctions, then the us put the japanese into camps. It wasnt all asians because china was on team allies.They wanted to deny infrastructure damage.
The nazis killed a whole bunch of people to digest their assets and fight inflation.
The soviets killed everybody they looked at because of lacking money. They couldnt even give guns to all of their men, some where expected to get a gun from their dead comrades, and hundreds of thousands starved or froze to death during the winter. The combined net salt and lack of food meant that only the soldiers survived, and only the lucky ones.
>>303918
regiment not division, but yes, over 10,000 medals for 14,000 members including 21 medals of honor
>>303899
Nigger.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Americans
Quite literally all throughout the 18th century and massively after WW1.
>GIB ME SOURCE ABOUT US IMMIGRATION THAT IS WIDELY AVAILABLE
are you not American?
The US used to be ~70% German heritage
Chinese and other east Asians were flooding into the US since the gold rush, causing teddy Roosevelt to sign a presidential agreement with the emperor of Japan to limit immigration.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentlemen%27s_Agreement_of_1907
If you're too fucking stupid to go look this shit up alone then you're a goddamn moron.
>>304032
>They couldnt even give guns to all of their men,
Nice meme. They had more than enough guns stockpiled and being produced at the time of the outbreak of war.
>>304032
>couldn't give guns to all of their men
this happened briefly in Stalingrad and at no other point in the war as far as i know
post a source if you can prove that
>>304032
>It wasnt all asians because china was on team allies.
This.
Most people forget that America was racist to ALL asians before WW2, but with the start of the Pacific Theater, most non japanese asians were marked as suddenly Allies who were useful in an intelligence role.
Consequently many discriminatory laws were removed during and right after the war against asians as a whole. And private discrimination was lessened courtesy of several westernized asians and asian-americans addressing congress and on the radio encouraging America to keep fighting the Japanese.
Japanese internment in the US is the biggest faux-outrage, I can't believe people still care about it.
During world war 2, if you were an American in Japan being interned would be the least-worst option possible.
And this was an entirely reasonable practice that occurred all over the world. For example, during WWI, Germans were interned extensively in Australia.
>>301820
where would the Ottoman Empire factor in this analysis?
>>304151
It was called a gentlemen's agreement because Roosevelt helped the Japanese save face because congress embarrassed him by passing the Chinese exclusion act because of powerful west coast lobbying. Roosevelt actually didn't support Chinese exclusion
>>304429
also chinese exclusion meant asian immigration in general.
>>303939
Put your trip back on, Joseph. We all know that's a copypasta.
>>304445
no i'm different. to add though iirc gentlemen's agreement allowed japanese women to continue to immigrate to america because the chinese community were notorious for their huge gender imbalance, which was probably the cause of their unruly gang activity and such
>>304151
>If you're too fucking stupid to go look this shit up alone then you're a goddamn moron.
If you can't provide a source backing up your argument, then you shouldn't make it on here. If it's so "widely available," why can't you provide any statistics on the people put into the camps?
You also still haven't provided any statistics that prove most Japanese-Americans put into the camps were first-generation and that German-Americans were integrated.
>>304506
Good christ you're a moron.
>>304622
I showed him the influx of immigration in the late late 1800s and early 1900s, meaning that a large potion of the Japanese being interned were either new to the United states, or first generation, as many came to Hawaii, they were relocated. Although there were many first generation Japanese who could join into the army.
Any textbook or source for the internment of Japanese explains this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment
Well, upon reading this I have mixed up my terms for referring to people.
"Second generations" is what I ment by first generations (born in US with citizenship) and those made up the majority.
>>304622
this tbqh, insulting someone for demanding sources on a history board is weak as fuck
>>304651
But I did provide the sources to "Germans were widely integrated"...
I also showed him the massive influx of Japanese to the US resulting in the "Chinese exclusion act" (which included most east Asians) and the Gentleman's aggrement.
I expected a /his/ board on an American website to know such basic highschool Textbook information.
I did misspeak my terms but I think it was closely understood what I ment.
>>304657
k, but the chinese exclusion act was only the latest of a series of immigration bills that had been passed as early as the 1880s. there actually was a latent german american sympathy for the central powers in wwi though this probably dissipated by the second world war. Chinese at least had been in america since the california gold rush in 1949. Japanese americans since the 1880s and especially the 1890s when hawaii was annexed and japanese labor was used extensively on plantations. also, if most japanese were born in america that means that they were less likely to be a fifth column because they had no physical connection with their alleged homeland, making internment seem ridiculous
>>304403
>Dey put peach on rice!!!!!!!!!
>>304694
Not him, but a lot of it stemmed from this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident
tl;dr
>Japanese pilot involved in the Pearl Harbor attack crashes on one of the other Hawaiian islands
>At first, the locals don't even realize we're now at war, but he's acting all weird, so they detain him.
>Three Japanese Americans help him break out of prison, get weapons
>6 day manhunt to find him, in which one of the natives is wounded quite badly trying to catch up with them before they're re-apprehended.
Granted, a lot of it rested upon pre-existing racial tensions, but if you want to point to a single incident as to why the Japanese were singled out, this is it, it really shook people up that a bunch of Japanese-Americans would help a downed enemy pilot that they never met like that.
>>301805
You're leaving out information that could be critical
>I.) What were the total POW's taken by nation?
>a.) When were they intervened?
II.) As for Soviets, are their POW numbers taken from being recorded interned or merely captured?
III.) What year did most of them die, and why?
>>304403
>tfw have a great-grandpa who was most likely asian or part asian considering the facial features my mother and grandmother have, and, my relatives know who he was, but they hid something from me and maybe even each other when I asked who he was when I was 10 years old
I really don't know what happened on that side of my family, and, even if I find out that happened, there's nobody alive who I should be mad at for this.
>>304657
>I did misspeak my terms but I think it was closely understood what I ment.
No, quite the opposite, actually, as first generation and second generation immigrants are very very different and so are the politics surrounding them
>>304733
yeah then i don't really blame americans considering the tensions were there and this type of accident no doubt would have raised suspicions to high levels. this fear is always a product of war
>>304443
Huh? I'm not Joseph. I just liked his post pls no bully
