Are most of the descendents of the ancient Macedonians Slavic or Greek?
>>293963
Are you asking wether modern day Macedonians are greek or slavic?
Genetically, it's a tossup. The greeks stayed in the area but got invaded by Slavs during 7th century onwards. So a bit of both.
>>293963
>>294006
>>294006
>byzzies
What the fuck
>>293963
Greeks.
and some Slavs.
Populations don't usually drastically change they just absorb even from large migrations.
For example, people are worrying about 1-2million Arabs walking into Europe right now but theres over 700 million white Europeans, you'd need literally the entire middle east to change the overall ethnic composition of Europe.
It's likely that the slavs just became the dominant upper class but didn't have a huge genetic impact
Speaking as a Western Slav, when I went down to Skopje the locals didn't look Slavic at all to me. Just because someone speaks a Slavic language in modern days it doesn't mean he actually has a Slavic ancestry, they're probably just slavicized paleo-Balkanians and genetic research seems to be supporting that.
That said, going all WE WUZ ALEXANDER AND SHIT is retarded since there's no cultural continuum, but still, they're not really "invaders".
>>293963
>>294006
>>293993
>>294036
>>294444
>>295092
Modern day 'Macedonians' from the FYROM are a mixture of Greeks and Slavs, but they've all been Slavicized.
In Greek Macedonia, they are Greek. Probably some Slavs and Turks and stuff in the mix, but the majority of the population is Greek and they all speak and identify as Greek.
FYROM are not 'Macedonians' from antiquity, and the reason many are of Greek descent is because the Balkans had been a combination of Greek and progressively Hellenized for like 2000 years before the Slavs showed up.
Same with Turks being a more Greek and Anatolian than Turkish.
The modern day inhabitants of the region known as Macedonia are Greek.
The modern day inhabitants of the region known as Fyrom are Bulgarians.
The ancient Macedonians were neither.
>>295386
>being this wrong
never change /his/
>>295390
Guess this is going to be a fun game of whether you're a butthurt Greek or a butthurt Fyromian.
I kinda wish /his/ had flags, but at the same time I guess I do understand why it shouldn't.
Who do so many retards here think the middle ages and antiquity had wholesale population displacement 24/7?
Going by /int/ logic America raped/killed all the Iraqis and now they speak English 100%.
>>295409
Because there was massive population displacement in Europe in the Dark Ages.
>>295413
But that's wrong.
Most European and Middle-Eastern populations have largely gone unchanged since prehistory.
A few invaders married into the upper classes and called it a day mostly.
>>294444
What is mass rape?
The Mongols could do it and the "refugees" are gonna do it now
>>293963
>thinking alexander and macedonians were slavs
Whoever thinks this probably only has the briefest knowledge of the ancient world. Macedon was just as Greek as Sparta and Athens, if they were any other ethnicity besides Greek it would most likely be Celtic. Slavs were nowhere near the balkans at this time.
>>295420
That really is not the case, hence why Sardinians (who actually haven't changed much since the island was fisrt settled) are so genetically distinct from the rest of Europe.
You've got a point when it comes to stuff like the Norman conquest of England, but during the fall of the Roman empire and the Dark Ages there was, undeniably, widespread population shift especially in Eastern Europe.
>>295092
>Just because someone speaks a Slavic language in modern days it doesn't mean he actually has a Slavic ancestry, they're probably just slavicized paleo-Balkanians and genetic research seems to be supporting that.
Well, but isn't that the case for most/all slavs? Or did you guys genocide everyone from Prague to Moscow?
>>293963
The ancient Macedonians were assimilated beyond recognition into mainstream Greek and Roman society a long time ago. All Greek dialects were fused into Koine Greek (lit. "Common Greek", Attic/Ionic dominant) and the culture began to homogenize ironically thanks to Alexander. We simply cannot know who is and who isn't a "descendant of Macedonians" or any other Greek tribe/city at this point. There is no unique language, customs, religion and so on to go by. It is pure geography. In other words, the Balkans didn't freeze in 500 BC and trying to make cases based on society back then is simply absurd.
All modern claims are purely based on geography and with that in mind Greek Macedonia is more "Macedonian" because of the being the most historically relevant territory, whereas the independent Slavic Macedonia is historically speaking more of a Thracian-Illyrian frontier with some exceptions in the south.
Don't lose your head over it, this has nothing to do with ancient history. It's more or less the same thing as Belgium: taking a historical region and trying to carve out a country and having no better name to use. The problem is taking this geographical and nominal basis too far i.e. Slavic Macedonians using it as a pretext to claim territory and history.
>>295386
>>295398
Genetically the two countries with the closest similarities to the population of Greece are Albania and FYROM.
People in the FYROM are 'Bulgarian' culturally and linguistically, but the population is not part of a migratory wave.
Closer links between FYROM and Greece/Albania may even be the cause of the FYROM/Bulgaria split, as the people in the area probably had a distinct identity that manifested in the schism between them and Bulgaria proper.
Ancient Macedonians were 100% Greek, like anybody else in Greece proper. The only difference was socio-political. Macedonians were an ethnos (ie: people belonging to an area) while Greeks didn't believe in a panhellenic identity, ascribing instead to polis identity politics and social system.
Linguistically Macedonian was Greek, and culturally Macedonians were less 'civilized' Greeks.
All the ancient Macedonian elites became the rulers and administrators of the Byzantine Empire and thus became the purveyors of modern Greek identity.
Most of the "Slavs" belonged to slavicized Balkan tribes, who could easily subsume and change into new identities, based on their lifestyles as shepherds, goat herders and small time farmers, which was basically fixed for hundreds of years living in the rugged terrain north of Greece proper, which included Ancient Macedon. They could easily become Slavic speaking just as they became "Greek" from Paeonian and various Thraco-Illyrian Balkan hill tribes.
Although some more rural ancient Macedonian Greeks whose lifestyles have same lifestyles overlapped could easily been subsumed into a Slavic identity, as most likely the population in the northern part of Greek Macedonia was mixed during the founding of Macedon in the beginning with the Balkan tribes.
I hope that answers your question.
>>293963
September 23, 2015
Negligible genetic flow in Slavic expansion to the Balcans
A new genetic study comes to confirm what most of us already knew: that Southern Slavs don't show any significant signature of immigration from the core Slavic area North and NE of the Carpathian Mountains that can be attributed to the so-called Slavic migrations of the Dark Age.
Alena Kushniarevich et al., Genetic Heritage of the Balto-Slavic Speaking Populations: A Synthesis of Autosomal, Mitochondrial and Y-Chromosomal Data. PLoS ONE 2015. Open access → LINK [doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0135820]
.
>>293963
>>297244
Abstract
The Slavic branch of the Balto-Slavic sub-family of Indo-European languages underwent rapid divergence as a result of the spatial expansion of its speakers from Central-East Europe, in early medieval times. This expansion–mainly to East Europe and the northern Balkans–resulted in the incorporation of genetic components from numerous autochthonous populations into the Slavic gene pools. Here, we characterize genetic variation in all extant ethnic groups speaking Balto-Slavic languages by analyzing mitochondrial DNA (n = 6,876), Y-chromosomes (n = 6,079) and genome-wide SNP profiles (n = 296), within the context of other European populations. We also reassess the phylogeny of Slavic languages within the Balto-Slavic branch of Indo-European. We find that genetic distances among Balto-Slavic populations, based on autosomal and Y-chromosomal loci, show a high correlation (0.9) both with each other and with geography, but a slightly lower correlation (0.7) with mitochondrial DNA and linguistic affiliation. The data suggest that genetic diversity of the present-day Slavs was predominantly shaped in situ, and we detect two different substrata: ‘central-east European’ for West and East Slavs, and ‘south-east European’ for South Slavs. A pattern of distribution of segments identical by descent between groups of East-West and South Slavs suggests shared ancestry or a modest gene flow between those two groups, which might derive from the historic spread of Slavic people.
>>293963
Slavs.
Most of the original inhabitants of modern greek macedonia migrated to bulgaria and fyrom and were replaced with greek refugees from istanbul and anatolia.
>>297270
Are you going to tell me what problem you have with my post or are you just going to throw insults around like the brain damaged monkey that you are?
>>297290
No, you are a fucking retard and didn't even bother to read my posts that clearly states and demonstrates how modern day MACEDONIANS are more related to other native southern europeans than to the SLAVS who invaded, fucking retard.
>>295424
yea man 700,000 people are gonna rape 350 million women
>>297301
jadi gomna
>>297304
2,000,000 for Germany alone
Near to the east
In a part of ancient Greece
In an ancient land called Macedonia
Was born a son
To Philip of Macedon
The legend his name was Alexander
At the age of nineteen
He became the Macedon King
And he swore to free all of Asia Minor
By the Aegian Sea
In 334 B.C.
He utterly beat the armies of Persia
Alexander the Great
His name struck fear into hearts of men
Alexander the Great
Became a legend 'mongst mortal men
King Darius the third
Defeated fled Persia
The Scythians fell by the river Jaxartes
Then Egypt fell to the Macedon King as well
And he founded the city called Alexandria
By the Tigris river
He met King Darius again
And crushed him again in the battle of Arbela
Entering Babylon
And Susa, treasures he found
Took Persepolis the capital of Persia
Alexander the Great
His name struck fear into hearts of men
Alexander the Great
Became a God amongst mortal men
A Phrygian King had bound a chariot yoke
And Alexander cut the 'Gordian knot'
And legend said that who untied the knot
He would become the master of Asia
Hellenism he spread far and wide
The Macedonian learned mind
Their culture was a western way of life
He paved the way for Christianity
Marching on, marching on
The battle weary marching side by side
Alexander's army line by line
They wouldn't follow him to India
Tired of the combat, pain and the glory
Alexander the Great
His name struck fear into hearts of men
Alexander the Great
He died of fever in Babylon
>>294444
>what's reproduction
