Dear Historians and Humanitarians!
Lets discuss free will and determinism.
I strongly believe that the modern society limits free will, and that you will always be 'poked' by external factos when you do things seemingly at your own free will.
What factors do you guys believe affects your daily life and do you think anyone "is in charge?" (Third world order)
I don't really have a strong argument against it, but I still having a nagging feeling that free will doesn't really exist.
I think that people, for the most part, are simply predictable input->output machines with a randomization component thrown in at the end. I don't really think the randomization component qualifies as free will.
There is no free will. Schopenhauer settled this shit ages ago, Spinoza even earlier actually. There is no refutation to their arguments.
Fuck off with the Sartrean make-believe please.
>>288954
You mean freedom as in liberty and positive and negative freedom or what goes on inside the skull?
>>289057
What was Schopenhauer's argument against it? That the will cannot be controlled and acts of its own volition?
>>288954
I don't think it has anything to do with modern society. Free will is contrary to the laws of Physics.
>>289057
>Sartrean make-believe is less believeble that claiming causality = no free will
ok
>>289102
Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.
Shit thread. There is will. It's not "free" from the laws of the universe. Your brain and thus your will is part of the universe. Determinism and free will as concepts do not conflict with each other.
>>289105
>Sartre: Dude, what if you can like, shape your own essence from beginning of existence?
>Schopenhauer: How do you form your essence without having one? Does that not require choices which by definition must be BASED on your essence. Ever heard if infinite regress? Your illogical ramblings are making no sense. Are you retarded? What the fuck is wrong with you?
>Sartre: ....REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
>>289098
>>289098
Both.
You might one day find yourself wanting something that society finds unacceptable.
e.g becoming fat from eating too much junkfood because you want to or because youre depressed and eating 'delicious' food makes you feel good.
It might not be 100% relevant but it touches aspects of what you asked.
>>289148
>Are you retarded?
I feel like Schopenhauer said that exact line many times in his life
Men are always the result of their historical circumstances. Man was originally dependent on things, his immediate environment, then through cultural development, and division of labour, he becomes dependent on thoughts. Only the self-conscious Egoist can dissolve the bondage of both. Without achieving critical self-conscious you're still no better than an ape.
The problem with free will isn't so much specific problems, they are just symptomps of the core issue, that is that "free will" is an incomprehensible and meaningless concept.
I mean just think about it, what is it supposed to be free? When it's not determined? In other words, random? How is randomness a choice or directed will exactly?
There are only those two possible states. There is no inbetween. The only argument people have is "it's just self-evident, i feel the choice at all times"
>>289116
Compatibalism is, frankly, silly.
>>289158
Well social pressure is always present in pretty much every society there is and has been.
As long as those societal ideas don't change into laws you're still free to do what you want.
It doesn't matter if we have free will, even if we don't it changes literally nothing.
Free will as a concept is extremely nebulous anyways.
Hello is this the thread where we play meaningless word games?
>>289269
Fuck off Wittgenstein
