How important do you believe that drugs were in the course of history?
Some people claim that the reason Europeans have been more aggressive is due to the fact of drinking alcohol.
Others said, that one more reason that Europe entered the Renaissance, was because coffee started to be imported, which is a stimulant, and people stopped drinking alcohol, which is a depressant.
What do you think about drugs shaping history, /his/? What do you think that will come up next? Do you think that the reason weed gets legalized is to make people calmer and less likely to revolt?
>>447397
Nietzsche said alcohol and Christianity were the two greatest vices of Europe.
> Europe entered the Renaissance,
> and people stopped drinking alcohol
Weren't a lot of them drinking mead, because it was safer/cleaner. So basically beer all day.
>>447397
>How important do you believe that drugs were in the course of history?
Extremely.
OP here, also on what drugs do you think each religion was created on?
I recently saw a documentary about the roots of hinduism, and the man there said, that there were scripts, about a drug(probably something like mushroom tea) that was made and then drug, making you hallucinate, seeing visions about Gods.
This, at first, was only taken by samans, for only spiritual reasons, but then people started abusing it, and then, anything about it was lost, so that people would stop taking it for recreational reasons.
Christianity obviously is based on alcohol, especially wine, and I also 100% agree on what >>447405 said.
What do you think about weed as well? Ancient Greeks used to smoke it, but only to see visions of the future and only a few people were allowed to it.
What do you also think about other drugs? What about coca leaves?
>>447434
*"that was made and then drunk", not drug
>>447397
I'd love a book on this if anyone knows any. Just the fact that we know of so many drugs today shows that people smoked and snorted all kinds of shit to find the good stuff.
>>447397
Tobacco was an important economic factor in the conquest of the new world. There's also the nineteenth century's opium wars.
I doubt drugs ever had much of a psychological/cultural impact. Europeans were no more aggressive than anyone else and if they started importing coffee, that means they were beginning to travel further and connect with a greater range of other cultures, which means the Renaissance was basically already happening anyway.
>>447434
The Cannabis plant was used at least 6000 years ago in Asia, either for food, fibers, or medicinal purposes, and I think opium is even older.
The question is, how the fuck did they start using this stuff?
>>447397
>Others said, that one more reason that Europe entered the Renaissance, was because coffee started to be imported, which is a stimulant, and people stopped drinking alcohol, which is a depressant.
I've heard this as well, and heard that one big reason as of why people started with agriculture was because you could make alcohol.
As someone said earlier, people drank alcohol (not with a high promise, but still alcohol) because water was unsafe to drink, and alcohol kills shit.
>>447511
Some fucker just tried it out of boredom. There's a lot of stuff people put in their mouth that doesn't make sense.
Oysters are delicious but look and smell disgusting. The first person who tried it probably starved and couldn't find anything else.
Or take Fugu. It's a Javanese dish made from an extremely poisonous fish. The first man who tried to cook it most likely died. A lot of people afterwards probably died trying to cook and eat it as well. Eventually someone found a way to prepare it. Who in their right mind would think "this is a fish that everyone before me have died eating, so that's the fish I'll cook and eat". Yet someone manage to make it eat-able.
>>447511
>how the fuck did they start using this stuff?
I wonder this quite often as well desu. Alcohol could be first used after frustration or by accident, the question is, who invented smoking?
>>447531
>people drank alcohol because water was unsafe to drink
Yes, I've heard of that too, but remember that unsafe water was a by-product of agriculture.
So it's like the chicken and egg situation. Could it be that beer was the reason of agriculture being invented, or agriculture was the reason of beer being invented?
Moreover, does anyone have information about native americans and tobacco? Did they cultivate it, or was it something rare that had to be picked up?
>>447511
Animals get druged and drunk.
Ernst Jünger wrote a book where he discusses his personal drug use and historical use together with what he thought it's impact was and other related things such as etymology of drug related terms.
Can't remember what the book is called in english though.
>Europeans have been more aggressive
More aggressive than who? lmao
>>447397
I'd guess some of the most important examples of drugs being a nexus in history is, obviously, the opium wars in China.
>>447397
This coffee shit is bullcrap on the same level as "muh protestant work ethics". Coffee only makes you work at normal level when you're already addicted to it.
>Europeans have been more aggressive
No, it's just that Europeans have built more civilization, and barbarians tend to resist being civilized unless it's by force. Look at China, if you want a non-white example. Before the Chinese could have a peaceful kingdom they had to shove in the shit of countless barbarian tribes to the north.
>>447580
this was very informative post thanks
>>447434
>weed
>visions of the future
Sorry OP but I've not heard nor personally encountered any type of weed that would have this effect.
As far as the visions however, Greece is/was full of natural gasses rising through fissures in caves. This is where they believe the oracles gained their visions. Which would explain why they were always held in caves.
>>447511
>>447546
>>447548
>>447578
I have thought about it a lot and come to the conclusion that they must have either inhale smoke during a fire out in nature or by using shrubbery to light a fire, using cannabis plants and getting an accidental contact high. This second theory seems to be more plausible, considering I've read somewhere that the Greeks and the Scythians burned whole cannabis plants as part of religious rituals.
>>447699
>using cannabis plants and getting an accidental contact high. This second theory seems to be more plausible
This seems likely, I've done this before.
>>447639
smoke moar
>>447706
I've seen enough videos on Youtube for this theory to be plausible. I can't do an experiment, though.
>>447511
>The question is, how the fuck did they start using this stuff?
Shamans and/or medicine man making potions for talking to gods or trying to heal.
>>447736
They had to know the effects first, you know. They didn't just start doing something without having a reason to do it.
>>447397
Steve dropped acid and made the iPhone. I dunno OP, maybe the bright drug-fueled future will have less faggot OPs like yourself.
>>447746
>They had to know the effects first, you know. They didn't just start doing something without having a reason to do it.
They could just try eating it or adding it in food just for taste. Then the next generation shaman knows about the plant that makes you feel god, same for medicine man (who was most likely the same guy as the shaman). Or maybe tasting stuffs for effect on body is sort of an instinct, like those monkeys who use medicinal plants (short example in http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/clever-monkeys-monkeys-and-medicinal-plants/3957/).
>>447776
They had to burn cannabis to feel its effects.
>>447807
Can't you just eat it? I'm not very familiar with drugs, but I think you can make cannabis cakes. Maybe they just chewed it or eat it.
>>447818
I'm not exactly sure how to make cannabis butter (I only have experience with the burning kind) but I'm pretty sure they didn't have to know-how back then.
>>447830
Can't you just eat or chew the raw plant?
>>447841
No, you ducking retard.
You've got to simmer that shit in oil, and then digest it, to feel any effect. You can't just eat the plant or nothing will happen but you looking like a cow.
Why would anyone go through the trouble of making brownies if you could just eat the leaves?
>>447841
It's only the "flowers" that are potent (well alright, I think the whole plant has a bit of chemicals, too, but not much) and the chemicals (THC and some others) only work when heated, either burned with a naked light or by being cooked.
As far as I remember, haschich was first created because the strains of cannabis weren't strong enough to get baked. It was used for ritualistic purpose and initiations because it could create imprint vulnerability on one's mind.
See the history for assassins forvmore infos.
>>447877
I'm pretty sure they smoked hash. In Vladimir Bartol's Alamut, on the other hand, they ate little balls made of hash.
>>447864
>>447876
I don't know, after a quick google, it seems you can eat raw cannabis flowers and get high, though some of the components do require heat to be activated. After that, I'm not familiar with drugs.
Even if they didn't eat it raw, maybe they just put the plant in a fire so it smells good (like incent) for religious stuffs or whatever.
>>447877
Some knucklehead said that Middle Eastern prophets used to rub their skin with the stuff so they could see their deity.
>>447511
>The question is, how the fuck did they start using this stuff?
Just like how Green tea was discovered.
Someone had some boiled water in a coup for some reason ( this is a Chinese story )
Meditated alongside it and when he opened his eyes, a leaf was floating inside it releasing its color and changing the texture of the water... then they found out that they can drink that instead of water and feel much better and stay healthier.
>>447434
Here's the book for what it's worth.
http://www.amazon.com/Cannabis-Soma-Solution-Chris-Bennett/dp/0984185801
How important do you believe Fetal Alcohol Syndrome was in the course of history?
>>448073
Probably not very important. If the baby came out weird, they just threw it to the wild animals, left it in the middle of nowhere or killed it by throwing it from a height.
>>448047
It gets in your system faster.
>>448128
Uhm..
Ingestion is the slowest way to feel the effects of any drug
>>448177
But it stays longer.
https://youtu.be/z9qujQq_jCQ
Psychedelic experiences were performance enhancing for the mind.
You can work backwords from the research being done on these substances right now to the cultural explosion of the 60's and how it can be a kind of example of how much drugs can change the world. THC, LSD, Psilocybin, Mescaline, DMT, and others can have a profound affect on just the art of a culture and if you consider the other positive effects it's interesting to see drugs help people like Socrates who tripped in the eleusinian mystery school.
>>447548
>the question is, who invented smoking
someone who ran out of firewood in the middle of tobacco field
>>448721
>60's culture
>good
>>449004
it's breety good desu
>>447397
>Others said, that one more reason that Europe entered the Renaissance, was because coffee started to be imported, which is a stimulant, and people stopped drinking alcohol,
>people stopped drinking alcohol
>Europe entered the Renaissence (which started before the discovery of America) because coffee (which although present in Arabia, in Europe it was basically imported from America and that centuries after the discovery, as during the XVI coffee was as consumed in Europe as exotic SE asian insectoid cuisine nowadays.)
>>449004
I didn't even say it was good but you can't read so, I guess replying is pointless.
You need a joint and a Jimi Hendrix album to reconsider your life on this board.
Nietzsche speculated somewhere (in Human, All Too Human?) that opiate use arose as a direct response to the rise of agriculture and rice as a staple diet in the east. The diet, which was once varied and stimulating, became bland so people needed something to stimulate them.
>What do you think that will come up next?
Hopefully a reaction against drug use altogether, and not from some conservative push to ban everything. Over-stimulation has totally fucked our species up and we need to get back in touch with ourselves. You can get high off breathing and being in the present moment.
>>447405
Well Nietzsche can suck his own dick for all I care.
>>449119
desu, being able to do some psychedelic once a year should be legal. The problem is, how to control such a limited use and how to make people not smuggle it.
Psychedelics can open one's mind, as long as they're not used on a daily basis.
>>449175
What a mature answer. Where was he wrong on that?
Ernst Jünger's book Annäherungen. Drogen und Rausch1 (Approaches: Drugs and Ecstatic Intoxication) ...
>>448119
Fetal Alcohol Syndrome babies aren't born looking too weird. There were likely many adults through history walking around with slight mental impairments from their mothers drinking while pregnant.
