Where do Kurds come from?
What were they up to 100 years ago?
I hear that they're the most victimised group in Iraq and that they're not Arab, meaning that they're native Mesopotamian, is this true?
I support a Kurdish state over al historically Kurdish land such as Turkey, Iraq and Syria. Biji Kurdistan, truly the most promising and liberal group in the Middle East. Christians are irrelevant in the Middle East I'm guessing ever since Islam took over.
I understand that they've struggled for independence for centuries and were subjected to harsh treatment from those around them but how comes that never stopped them from breeding 30 million Kurdish people by today?
>>276354
They come from Iran.
100 years ago they all either lived in the Ottoman Empire or in Persia.
They're not native Mesopotamian, they're Iranian.
>>276362
Then why do they live not in Iran? The're the only real ethnic group living in Mesopotomia that I know of, everyone else is part of some fake extinct minority.
>>276354
Poo in Loo
>>276354
Kurds are an Iranic people who found themselves in the Middle East due to Persians taking them for a ride during the Persian Empire days.
>>276413
Well then why does everyone think that Mesopotamic land belongs to the Kurds?
Official meme people of 2015.
>>276430
It's just Kurds and /int/ Kurdboos who seek to assinflame Arabs. Kurds never really had land of their own. Historically they were organized around Kurdish Emirs who owe their loyalty to some Caliph/Sultan/Turkish Dynasty/Shah of Iran.
>>276407
Because the Iranians took over the area a shitload. Every "Persian Empire" up till and including the Safavids has owned that bit of northern Iraqi clay.
>>276441
Who is historically justified to own that land then?
>>276443
So Mesopotamians died out, Arabs and Iranians took over?
>>276455
No fucking Idea. Brits and Frenchfaggots turned it into an area of Meme-countries.
>>276354
A lot of their land claims in Turkey are unjustified, a lot of that land they live on or claim in Turkey used to be Armenian. That changed after WWI though.
>>276648
So you're saying you can clear other people's land and claim it as your own and have the whole Western world cheer you on as heroes?
What happened to the Kurds during WW1, did they have to fight against the Turks too?
>>276676
No I'm pretty sure the Kurds just sat around complacent with the Armenians getting rounded off and shipped into the desert to eventually die. They then moved into the deserted areas afterwords.
>>276711
Wikipedia says:
>Kurdish recognition of the Armenian Genocide and Assyrian Genocide is the recognition by the Kurds of their participation in the genocide of Armenians and Assyrians during World War I when Kurds, along with Turks and Muslim groups from various Caucasian tribes, attacked and killed innocent Armenian and Assyrian civilians and refugees. Throughout the Kurdish-populated regions, some Kurds participated in the genocide of the Armenians while other Kurds opposed the genocide, in some cases even hiding or adopting Armenian refugees.[1] Kurds in prison were given amnesty and released from prison if they would massacre the Armenians.[2]
>>276739
Oh yeah, I remember an anon told me about that. Shit's fucked, the British refused to acknowledge that there was Assyrians still in that region.
>>276648
All their land used to be something else.
Kurdistan is basically a big ghetto for the Persian gypsies, Turkey just get Kurded a little more recently.
>>276759
My god, I've let all hope for the Middle East, there are still non Arabised people living there and the world refuses to acknowledge them or give them any of their rightful land.
>>276764
Well Iranids occupied that area for a long long time. There were more Kurds than Armenians in Turkey before the genocide as well. Also Islamic people breed like rabbits.
Apparently there were also Kurds took over the Assyrian town of Erbil in Iraq 1000 years ago, either through massacring them or moving in after they've been massacred.
>>276354
they were collabrating and genociding assyrians/armenians with the ottoman empire 100 years ago
they profited alot from this, and moved to the land of the genocided people
so they have been living there and reproducing
>>276952
Does anyone care? Honest question.
>>277024
dunno, go ask assyrians and armenians
>>277029
I know they care, I mean people of power.
The whole idea of "land claims" is stupid to begin with because outside of Europe and a few other places it is perfectly normal for most ethnic groups to be largely nomadic. You don't need to try to justify a Kurdish state any further than the fact that they have land that they live on that is inhabited by racially and culturally Kurdish people and they're mistreated by other states, hence it only makes logical sense to make that land its own state for the sake of stability.
500 years ago they are trapped in between the otto empire and persia
long story shot ottoman empire defeats persia in a battle, later the kurds decide to join the otto empire without any bloodshed in return for autonomy
they live alongside armenians, assyrians
to the empires downfall, stuff happens, assyrians and armenians get rekt
treaty of sevres and later lausanne happens, kurds get seperated trough 4 countries
iran, iraq, syria and turkey
in iran they face a heavy assimilation proces and persecution to this day
in syria they also got trough persecution, and an arabization proces by the baath party, since they are fighting ISIS they get alot of good press
in iraq saddam fuckt them up hard. The US told them at one point to rise up against saddam, they do, and the US later does not keep their promise and saddam assfucks them hard, yet they have an autonomous region and are de facto independant since a couple of decades
in turkey they also got trough a harsh "turkify" or whatever you call it process, later the PKK gets formed which is recognized as a terrorist party, and to this day it caused 10s of thousands of death
however they have been getter better rights since the last decade but it has been deteriorating last years
i dont know what you mean with liberal, since they do some vile shit like FGM and if you google it, it looks like its a common thing
>>277118
>What sort of reparations for homes and churches lost has there been for the Christians?
Turkey denies any allegations of a genocide against the armenians, and the borders have been closed since 1993. I dont think you will see any change in that soon. Some Kurdish instutions/parties have recognized and apologized for the genocide, but thats it.
The Assyrians got some land back including churches in Turkey, that was mainly to appease the assyrians and their quest to recognize the genocide (for the EU proces that was important years ago), but it looks like Turkey does not care about joining the EU anymore, so i dont think you will hear alot of positive things anymore
>>276789
>There were more Kurds than Armenians in Turkey before the genocide as well
Source? I think I've seen Turks on /int/ claim that there were only 500k Kurds in Turkey when the Republic was established.
>>276455
Assyrians, and not the modern c.ucks but ancient civilization.
>>277212
Well there were more Muslims than Christians so Turks+Kurds was more.
Either way, they're gone now. The Assyrian nationality has disappeared completely from their homeland. When the new Kurdistan is established and all the cities in northern Iraq are renamed from Assyrian to Kurdish, all traces of their existence their will be gone. But hey biji Kurdistan amiright?
>>277221
C.ucks for being genocided by every Islamic ethnic group around them? At least they don't have African in their DNA like Arabs and Kurds. There's only 3 million left in the world anyway.
>>277212
i dont know how good this is
http://www.populstat.info/Asia/turkeyc.htm
it says 13 million in 1923
i have been told the kurdish percentage was 6 percent when the republic got formed
so a number between 500k-1million would be safe? No idea
(not that guy btw)
he says "before the genocide", so im assuming he means in the ottoman empire, before all the kurds got seperated, i dont know the kurdish number in syria/iraq/iran tho
>>276354
>Where do Kurds come from?
They're iranians.
>What were they up to 100 years ago?
same as today, trying to get independence from ottomans
>I hear that they're the most victimised group in Iraq and that they're not Arab, meaning that they're native Mesopotamian, is this true?
That would probably be the Assyrians.
>>277265
The Assyrians are washed up as a race. They couldn't keep up with the size of the Kurdish population and now they're better off leaving Iraq and never returning again. No one cares about the Assyrians, no one wants to preserve their homeland or their history, no nation sees the benefit in having Assyrian people as their allies. Now there are <400k Assyrians in Iraq and over 9 million Kurds. They couldn't keep up with that population size, be it from the genocide, massacres, mass immigration or their own personal disunity. Now it's just too late. The final nail on the cofffin comes now in the form of renaming ancient Assyrian cities to Kurdish, like the Ancient Assyrian citadel of Erbil becoming Hewler, or destroying priceless Assyrian artefacts at the Mosul Museum. The Assyrians are no more, they are irrelevant, underrepresented and never winning a single election within any governante. They're done.
>>277474
Sounds like the ending cutscene of halo combat evolved.
The Kurdish state isn't supported by any major power. That means it's not happening.
As for legality or morality, a lot of Kurdish land is by the normal definition of "self-determination" set up by Woodrow Wilson and the League of nations. not entitled to self-determination.
People try to act like Kurds are somehow "better" than other groups in the area, or that somehow by being supposedly more oppressed they have a "moral highground."
The historical truth is their just as big of assholes as the Arabs. The media only likes them now because they happen to be in the same region as ISIS.
To the media they are the Tibetans/South Vietnamese/Rwandans/Dufaris/Jews of 2015.
>>277515
It definitely is happening and it will be the death of the Assyrian dream. You can't argue against 30 million people, they're the largest ethnic population without a country.
>>277556
It's not happening in any de jure sense. Or was Crimea legal?
De facto in syria, maybe. But Turkey, Iran, and Iraq aren't gonna give up their land.
Part of the reason Iraq can't beat ISIS is because they hate the kurds and don't want to help them gain assyrian land.
Finally no major power supports Kurdish independence. Not even France or the US. We support Turkey over the Kurds.
>>277579
I guess we'll see
>>277512
Jesus Christ this isn't even /pol/
Did an Assyrian steal your favourite burka or something?
>>277579
The ones in Iraq are supported by Turkey and USA, so you might see something happening there.
Iraqi Kurdistan is basically independent already
Syrian Kurdistan is a possibility
Turkish and Iranian Kurdistan will never happen
>>278207
Syrian Kurdistan (or at least a part of it, ROjava) is governed by anarchists of PKK (leader Abdullah Ocalan) that don't want to build a state but to live in peace and self govern.
They also kicked Isis asses out of Rojava.
Other faction of Kurdish army is the Peshmerga, funded by americans. PKK is considered a terrorist organization by the USA even if it they are fighting ISIS
>>276676
>What happened to the Kurds during WW1
They were hired by the Ottomans to carry out the Armenian Genocide.
>>276354
>most victimized group
That would be the Assyrians, who were even victimized by Kurds.
>>277579
> Finally no major power supports Kurdish independence. Not even France or the US. We support Turkey over the Kurds.
Do we ?
We let Turkey fight against the PKK, true, but we don't support it. And Erdogan has been getting on the nerves of everyone.
If, once the war is finished, the kurds of Iraq go for independence, I think they will have some support. Iraq has proven to be a failed state that can't unite itself under one flag, so trying something else will be ok for Europe and the US. International popular sympathy for the people who fought effectively against Isis can't be dismissed. Iran will support it too, Russia won't really care...
I think it might end badly for rojava and the turkish kurds, but the iraqi ones will probably get independence.
>>278801
>Iran will support it too, Russia won't really care...
Why do you think Iran will support it?
Iran is against its Kurdish parts seceding in Iran self. They wont like it at all if a part secedes from Iraq. When the US backed out of Iraq, pretty much the whole of Iraq got influenced by Iran. And Iran losing influence automatically means Russia loses a bit of influence.
So Kurds breaking away from Iraq means losing influence for Iran. And Iraq wont like it (they hate Kurds). So i dont see it at all how Iran supports it. If you could explain it.
>>278824
The truth is that I don't really know what I'm talking about. Who knows what will go through the head of the future leaders of these countries ?
I was thinking that Iran would approve of a weakened Iraq where shiites are a bigger part if the population.
But I know that Iran is supporting the peshmergas, sending weapons and some men too.
They don't want their kurds to fight for independence, but not for autonomy either, and they were okay with an autonomous kurdistan in Iraq anyway.
As Turkey, which has been in the past supportive to the KDP because of its enmity with the PKK, mostly abandonned them, if they do get independence they will have to get closer to Iran, so they can't really support kurds from there, and they'll have to go along with its regional domination.
>>276455
Whoever owns it currently.
>>278977
>I was thinking that Iran would approve of a weakened Iraq where shiites are a bigger part if the population.
no baghdad is currently backed by iran who wouldnt like the kurds breaking away at all, also considering that part has oil
>But I know that Iran is supporting the peshmergas, sending weapons and some men too.
no they support the government, the peshmarga is supported by Turkey and the USA
>As Turkey, which has been in the past supportive to the KDP because of its enmity with the PKK, mostly abandonned them
Turkey is the main buyer of the Iraqi kurds oil, against the wishes of Baghdad. Turkey is the main country that does trade with the iraqi kurds (around 40 percent)
> if they do get independence they will have to get closer to Iran
Getting closer to iran means getting closer to iraq, it doesnt work like that
they will have to get close to Turkey/USA, i doubt they will want to get in the sphere of influence of iran
>>278978
Who originates from there that still exists today? I keep hearing Kurds are Indo-European.
>>276458
All mesopotamians except the sumerians were semitic peoples. The arabs of iraq are mostly genetic descendants of them. The assyrians and chaldeans are both genetic and cultural descendants.
Kurds are a nomadic people not native of the area.
>Where do Kurds come from?
The language comes from Iran.
>What were they up to 100 years ago?
Experiencing the fall of the Ottoman Empire; some tribes were helping the Turks in the Armenian/Assyrian/Greek genocide
>I hear that they're the most victimised group in Iraq and that they're not Arab, meaning that they're native Mesopotamian, is this true?
Genetically, Iraqi Arabs are the most native Mesopotamian. Kurds are native to the region north of Mesopotamia.
>Biji Kurdistan, truly the most promising and liberal group in the Middle East. Christians are irrelevant in the Middle East I'm guessing ever since Islam took over.
First, liberalism isn't good. Second, Christians are still a majority in certain areas of the middle-east.
>I understand that they've struggled for independence for centuries and were subjected to harsh treatment from those around them but how comes that never stopped them from breeding 30 million Kurdish people by today?
Because they breed like rabbits.
>>281113
The Christians soon eventually disappear I'm sure, they don't have the force or lobbying ability to push for independence of preservation of their land. There are groups of Assyrians who have been lobbying in Washington for the past decade with almost no results, maybe Russi will yield better fruit because that's where the lobbyists are heading now.
My grandad was Kurdish.
That is the start and end of my knowledge of Kurdistan.
>>281307
Here's (You)r reply.
