Had Operation Downfall proceeded, what do you think the results would have been? This is assuming the allies didn't have nukes. The landing invasion would have made Omaha Beach look like a cakewalk. You would have the Soviets too, and the Japanese had their entire population (around 35 million) ready to die for the emperor. It would be complete bloodshed for sure. But I wonder if it would push the Americans to withdraw if it got too bloody? I remember them being pretty drained by '45, and support for the war was wavering. Would have made for some epic movies/video games.
I'd imagine a "race to Berlin" -esque scenario between the Americans and the Soviets.
Japan had already lost, it was just getting them to admit it.
>>262339
Japan knew they lost, they just thought by making the allies walk into a meat grinder they might pull back and offer more preferable surrender terms. Some say it might have worked as the American public was shocked at the causalities at Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
>>262309
To give you an idea of just how committed the USA was to Operation Downfall:
>Nearly 500,000 Purple Heart medals (awarded for combat casualties) were manufactured in anticipation of the casualties resulting from the invasion of Japan; the number exceeded that of all American military casualties of the 65 years following the end of World War II, including the Korean and Vietnam Wars. In 2003, there were still 120,000 of these Purple Heart medals in stock.[89] There were so many left that combat units in Iraq and Afghanistan were able to keep Purple Hearts on hand for immediate award to soldiers wounded in the field.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall
By 1945, the US honestly didn't care how many more soldiers they had to send to their deaths as long as Tokyo fell. Similar to the mentality the Soviets had for Germany.
>>262309
>You would have the Soviets too,
Only if the Americans felt like lending them landing craft. Given the tensions already rising, I fail to see why this would happen.
With that many millions of soldiers in Japan, the country would look like hammered shit by the end. All the artillery, aircraft... jesus there would be nothing left.
>>262309
like the race to berlin but 10x bloodier
>>262309
Like >>262369 said, top military experts (who didn't know the A-bomb existed) expected it to be a massive clusterfuck AT BEST, so much so that the Army made 500,000 Purple Hearts which still haven't used to this day.
The Baby Boom probably wouldn't have happened, at least not to the degree that it happened, and Japan's male population probably would've been decimated. We would probably not be quite as technologically advanced and there would be no anime industry.
>>262309
1) Soviets didnt have the logistical capabilities in the far east to have a successful invasion of Honshu, they may have been able to take Hokkaido which would have been much less protected.
Even then the Soviets had no naval presence and ability to land large amounts of troops by sea in the West let alone the far east.
Most likely they would have just kept bum fucking the Nips in Mainland China where they were doing real damage.
2) Japans population was 70 million in '45
It would have been brutal fighting against the entire populace.
Okinawa (whose populace only half saw themselves as real Japanese) had women, children and men of non-fighting age commit suicide by cliff jumping rather than be captured by Americans.
Not to mention almost all military age men fought to the death.
Vets from the Western front would have had to have been transferred and were infact in the process of being transferred to the East just to make the invasion plausible in terms of troop numbers.
>>262364
This, people need to stop saying nukes were the only way to get the Japanese to surrender. Honestly, the Americans didn't even end up getting an unconditional surrender. They gave the Japanese emperor his life and acquitted him of any wrongdoing, and post-war Japan got a pretty good stimulus plan in exchange for hosting an air base in Okinawa.
And Japan didn't even like Okinawa. Arguably, Okinawa should have been stripped from Japanese territories and land holdings after the war, but the Americans made sure it wasn't so. Okinawans really got the short end of the stick and got screwed over by the Japanese and the Americans during and after the war.
All the nukes did was prevent Japan from becoming a German/Berlin post-war cluster fuck by decisively defeating Japan and forcing surrender before the Russians arrived.
>>262465
> before the Russians arrived.
On what landing craft?
>>262364
Or the upper echelons of the military would rather watch their nation burn for an extra few months than submit themselves to war crime trials.
>>262470
On the landing craft made during the months of fighting, and then Russia would demand half of Tokyo, and the norther half of Japan. America wanted it to end before there were any Russian boots on the ground.
>>262477
>On the landing craft made during the months of fighting,
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Yeah, so a nation with literally 0 amphibious experience even in the design phase is going to, from scratch, come up with a workable design for landing craft to take opposed beaches, and then send out millions of men to, I dunno, Vladivostok, and build them all up in the totally not shitty shipyard they had over there in a few months so they could ferry tens of thousands of soldiers at the very least to hit an opposed beach, and hope to make significant gains before the Americans take over.
Or maybe they're planning to repeat the Tushima debacle, and build their ships up in the Baltic and sail them all the way around the world to get them to Japan.
If you gave the Soviets 5 years, they still probably wouldn't have been able to build a big enough fleet to make an appreciable dent in the Japanese coastal defenses, let alone a few months.
>tfw you realise this is the best board on 4chan
>>262470
Shitty wooden barges that the Japs would have a field day sinking. The Russian landing invasion would be Stalingrad on steroids.
>>262505
It's still over 200 kilometers from Pusan to Fukoka, which is about as close as you're going to get to Japan.
Wooden barges (assuming you mean like repurposed river craft) aren't even going to make it all the way without sinking, even if the Japanese don't lift a finger to stop them. It wouldn't even be Stalingrad, it would be a lemming march.
>>262489
You really think Hokkaido was well defended, or that any significant force would be defending the north while America was attacking from the south? All the major cities, the capital, and much of the industry was farther south.
Considering that Japan would have lost against the Americans alone, how do you think they would have defended against the Russians while fighting off the Americans at the same time?
>>262512
You say that like Russians were against lemming marches.
>>262309
>Had Operation Downfall proceeded, what do you think the results would have been?
250K purple hearts. Advance through atomic and gas bombardment. Mass starvation in Japan. Probably a North (Hokkaido JCP regime) and South Japan. Juche faction doesn't win Korea. Japan not reindustrialised due to lack of Korean war.
>>262515
I think that even if it's only defended with a skeleton force (likely) the complete lack of Soviet naval expertise, force in the region, design of any sort of amphibious landing craft, and the distances involved from the closest port (which I guess would be Toyohara, a tiny little thing which is iced over half the year) that no, the Soviets won't make it onshore. Hell, if they make it TO the shore I'd be amazed.
They'd be trying to do Dieppe and/or Tarawa all over again, except with even less information to work with and much shittier technical designs.
>>262547
Today, you were not a faggot.
Try and make this a regular thing.
>>262465
>All the nukes did was prevent Japan from becoming a German/Berlin post-war cluster fuck by decisively defeating Japan and forcing surrender before the Russians arrived.
so basically being nuked saved japan from ruination?
>>262496
Seriously we get interesting discussions about philosophy, history, and other cultural events. I couldn't ask for more with this board.
>>262602
It was the least worst option.
The answer "Drop the bombs" is not insane. It was a rational answer based upon available information to bring the war to a close with the fewest casualties while limiting yours to one or two bomber crews at worst.
The answer is not insane. The question is insane.
>Americans thinking nukes were the reason Japan surrendered
Japan surrendered because they lost China.
The entire reason Japan went to war with America, Britain, and the Netherlands was because it was necessary to get the resources they needed to keep the war in China going.
Everything Japan did was so they could keep their Empire in China.
In 1941 it was either pull out of China due to Embargos and lack of resources, or extend the war to South East Asia to get what they needed.
America was surprise buttfucked so they wouldnt be able to stop Japans initial expansion.
The whole plan relied on America looking on at 6 months of non-stop Japanese victories and thinking it would be too costly to try to take these back.
Anyway i digress.
Japan surrendered because Russia exactly 3 months after Germany surrendered, invaded Manchuria and obliterated the "elite" Kwantung Army, and then moved on to conquer vast swaths of former Japanese holdings in China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria
Without China the entire war was pointless.
Japan had lost more civilians in a single night of fire bombing in Tokyo than they lost in a nuke, civilian casualties were acceptable.
Often under appreciated is Americas submarine efforts. America effectively cut off all supply to and from China due to some of the best Submarining ever seen by the Americans.
Much more effective than anything the Krauts ever pulled off against the British.
Once again this had a bigger impact on Japan surrendering than a nuke ever could because the Submarines made any possessions in China pointless since nothing could get to or from said possessions.
>>262602
Yes, in a way. It may have not been a moral thing to do, but it was an expedient thing to do.
>>262714
>moral
whats more moral, throwing away your own country men when a means of defeat is right there, or trying to "curtail" casualties on the other side.
>>262713
You are aware that the demand accompanying the Oil Embargo had nothing to do with China and had to do with the Japanese invading a French colonial province, (nowadays Vietnam) right?
And that the Soviets never penetrated into China proper, only Manchuria?
>>262720
Not demanding an "unconditional" surrender?
>>262420
>no anime industry.
I'm not sure whether the Atom bomb was a blessing or a curse.
I mean with the A-bomb well over 100,000 civilians died a painful death, with survivors being maimed and dying much later from radiation poisoning but brought a swift end to the Pacific, but without it thousands more would have died [spoiler]and there would be no 4chan.[/spoiler]
>>262554
Eat my wife's cock and read more, cunt.
>>262309
>Had Operation Downfall proceeded, what do you think the results would have been?
A bloodbath. You'd have nips fighting US soldiers with kitchen knives and slingshots while the nip government retreated to Tokyo. All cities would be firebombed to the ground as Soviet soldiers invaded from the north. Depending on the nips endurance, more nukes might have been used if they held out long enough.
>This is assuming the allies didn't have nukes.
In that case, everything would be bombed conventionally. Dresden would look like a picnic.
>>262725
Just because the Oil embargo was over the "invasion" of french indochina doesnt mean it had no impact on the immense war effort in China.
are you thick in the head?
In regards to the Soviet invasion, the only reason only Manchuria was taken (in less than a month i might add) is because Japan surrendered.
The Soviets were in prime position to continue through and take of all of China if necessary.
They had just destroyed a premier Japanese Army of ~700,000 soldiers in less than a month.
that in conjunction with the submarine blockade contributed more than the nukes.
>>262758
>more nukes might have been used
They have to be made first
America only had two nukes and both were used.
>>262742
Aaaaaaand just like that, refaggification has occurred.
>I will work harder...
>>262763
Yes but the invasion would've probably went on into '46 and by that time we would've had several of them.
>>262713
Do you really think you're bringing up something new here to the ignorant American masses? The Soviet intervention vs nukes is an old, tired debate and you're just regurgitating the same arguments historians have thrown out for decades.
There's one thing you've got right, the attacks on JMS, and particularly the submarines were what mainly won the war. The Soviet intervention and use of atomic weapons did bring the whole thing to a swifter conclusion though.
>>262763
The US could easily make several bombs a year. They were planned to be used tactically in Operation Downfall.
>>262798
>actually using tactical nukes
Now I wish they did invade.
>>262794
True, but again bombing has shown throughout the whole war to not be enough to push a country to surrendering.
The Operation Meetinghouse air raid of 9–10 March 1945 was later estimated to be the single most destructive bombing raid in history and no nukes were used.
Japan also didnt surrender.
>>262798
>Do you really think you're bringing up something new here to the ignorant American masses?
yes since no one had even entertained the idea until i mentioned it.
Unfortunately i dont know the speed of US nuke production and now im gonna have to look into due to Autism, never heard about nukes being used in Downfall till now either.
>>262798
>you're just regurgitating the same arguments historians have thrown out for decades.
yeah that's part of what people should be doing in this board.
>>262508
>they struggled pretty hard taking on the Kurils
Is there some substantial evidence of this conflict? I've done a bit of gleaning on wiki and couldn't find anything.
American Casualties in the millions, with hundreds of thousands, if not over a million, deaths.
Japanese deaths in the tens of millions, comprised from both Military and Civilian deaths. Casualties incalculable.
Soviet Casualties/Fatalities incalculable, but likely akin to what was experienced during the European Theatre.
End Result: Complete and utter decimation of Japan as a nation. Trillions of dollars and multiple generations of work go into reconstruction of Japan, essentially from scratch. Soviet presence likely results in the splitting of Japan in a manner similar to the division of East and West Germany, with South Japan falling under the Administration of America and North Japan being Administered by the Soviet Union. With Kyoto utterly destroyed, a new, jointly administered Capital is constructed along the border.
>>262798
>several bombs a year
I think they believed they could have anywhere from 9 to 15 bombs prepared for the invasion force.
It would have been fucking awesome if we had done a ground invasion and the civilian population forced us to kill most of them in suicide attacks.
Then we could just move into japan after finally finishing the extermination and make another awesome country like Australia
1 step closer to WHITETOPIA
The best would have been if you did the ground invasion until there was only one big city left, THEN used the nuke on that last one , so you get all the kudos of being the big nuke daddy of the world and you get a new country.
>>262973
>You will never storm the homeland of the God-King.
>You will never be the gunner on Patton's M4A3E8 Sherman.
>You will never be there alongside him as he pours fire into an advancing human wall.
>You will never hear him over internal comms as he composes his final, most sublime poetry.
Why even live?
>>262489
>Yeah, so a nation with literally 0 amphibious experience even in the design phase is going to, from scratch, come up with a workable design for landing craft
So, you never heard of the Naval infantry?
>>262489
What is Lend Lease, and Project Hula?
>>263106
>>262547
Holy shit, now there's the Japanese War instead of the Korean...
Also, knowing you, you probably won't even mind a commie occupational force in Northern Japan because you don't even address troops going remotely north. Damn son just don't ok. The Korean War was good due to the present of a buffer state preventing the Chinese from invading SK. Also, what happens to Korea? And what stops this northern Japan from invading south Japan? Really I could see it as the Vietnam War only 20 years earlier.
>>262420
>and there would be no anime industry
all those killings would've been worth it
>>263546
chill dude
>>263546
get off of 4chan faggot
>>263546
found the redditor :^)
>>262738
The atom bomb was horrible of course, but compared to the alternative it was absolutely a mercy. Operation Downfall would have destroyed Japanese society for generations and would also have killed millions of Americans. The Soviet Union would have also gotten into the mix and they would at least have been able to take Hokkaido, if not any of the Home Islands.
Just look at how fiercely the soldiers and civilians fought at Okinawa and Iwo Jima, islands which were basically backwaters that didn't even really consider themselves Japanese. Look at how many civilians committed suicide rather than be captured by troops hyped up to be monsters. Now imagine trying to take Osaka or Kyoto or Tokyo.
In terms of reducing American (and by extension, Japanese) losses and ending the war as quickly and painlessly as possible, the bombs were the least bad option.
>>263606
But then there would be no yuri and we can't have that
>>264079
Continuing, it is possible that the Japanese were simply playing hardball in the hopes of getting better surrender terms; although everyone knew the war was essentially over, after the brutality of Iwo Jima and Okinawa perhaps the Americans would give the Japanese a better deal instead of going through a meat grinder.
However, considering a few military top brass attempted a coup to stop a surrender, it's clear that some Japanese (leaders, not civilians) would rather have tried to take down the Americans with them rather than give up dishonorably.
Also, aiding the surrender process after the bomb was the fact that the Soviets were right on Hokkaido's doorstep, and the Japanese would much prefer having to deal with Truman than with fucking Stalin. It also was convenient for the Americans since they would've have to include the Soviets in negotiations.
>>263546
back to reddit, faggot
>>262309
>Would have made for some epic movies/video games.
Operation coronet was supposed to use nukes to break coastal defenses. They were supposed to use nukes on troop formations as well.
It would have been a fucking nightmare.
Considering the effectiveness of the blockade and bombing campaign, was rthere any purpose to an invasion other than denying the soviets territory? If there were such high casualty figures expected, why not just starve the japs out?
>>262309
To all those saying Japan was screwed and couldn't resist anymore: 731.
>>264140
Quiet /pol/. Not everyone that you dislike is from Reddit.
>>264079
>The atom bomb was horrible of course, but compared to the alternative it was absolutely a mercy.
I agree, but I don't think the alternative necessarily had to be Operation Downfall. The US could have easily done this:
>keep up the blockade
>mine the harbors
>blow up any fishing boats they saw
>bomb the farms
>destroy any infrastructure more advanced than an ox cart on a dirt road
>keep up the strategic bombing campaign on the cities
And wait. Japan would run out of food very quickly, and they can't fight you if they're dead from starvation. This could have killed millions of Japanese civilians and won the war with very few American casualties. The bombs were definitely a merciful alternative.
>>264876
Starving them out was considered, but it was decided that slowly waiting for Japan to starve would be bad for morale back home.
I'm going to defy conventional wisdom here and say that casualties, not deaths, but casualties, for the Americans would be under 200,000.
The Soviets, who lost many times as many men taking all of Manchuria and parts of Korea then they took just taking the city of Berlin.
There were no significant amphibious defenses in Japan. Okinawa was planned as a last stand and they meant that:
Meaning that as late as May, 1945, no planning or construction was undertaken to prepare the Home Islands from invasion.
Even the Japanese preparations for the invasion did not plan for a ground defense of Japan. All planning centered on destroying the American forces AT SEA.
Due to the state of the Japanese rail system, and the level of mechanization of the Japanese Army (non-existent), Japan could not effectively reinforce it's positions as all plans for strategic redeployment expected troops to move at the speed of walking. To limit the effect of air power, the Japanese would only be walking their divisions at night. Faced with the fact that American divisions were all fully motorized, once a landing had been cleared, American divisions would have rolled up Japanese ones faster than they could retreat (exactly what happened in Manchuria).
As for the expectation of it being worse than Omaha, not only had the Japanese only begun constructing defenses, their guiding principles (learned from Guam and Okinawa), was that they should be built out of range of naval gunfire.
The idea that Japan was just Okinawa, writ large, was understandable in the heat of the moment, but is entirely mistaken, and no longer defensible.
>>264883
What are you talking about? 731 doesn't help Japan hold out at all.
>>262489
...anyone else willing to bet they actually would have pulled it off somehow? Its the fucking russians.
>>262489
>Or maybe they're planning to repeat the Tushima debacle
Oh god someone post that screenshot of the post made about Tushima, I can't stop laughing just thinking about it
>>265067
>but it was decided that slowly waiting for Japan to starve would be bad for morale back home.
Why? You just need to keep ships and subs around Japanese Islands and quarantine them, and just bomb them to shit with heavy strategic bombers 24/7. It's definitely much better for morale than an amphibious assault.
>>265772
Maybe he means it would backfire by turning public sympathy towards the Japs. Big stretch though.
>>265803
But japs were more hated than the germans in the US public.
>>265821
I know. That's why I said it's a big stretch.
>>262364
>they just thought by making the allies walk into a meat grinder they might pull back and offer more preferable surrender terms.
Most of Japan at this point was more than willing to give up the war. Back in January of '45 Japan offered nearly the same terms of surrender that they got after the bombs fell this is actually recorded and MacArthur personally walked the terms into Roosevelt's office, who promptly told him to fuck off, the Chicago Tribune had the story but it was put under censor until the war ended. Had America actually landed on the mainland they would have steamrolled what little was left of Japan's military forces. The only reason the war was continued was because Truman WANTED to use the bombs, not so much as a tool against the Japanese, but because he knew the Cold War was coming and he wanted something that would scare the shit out of the Russians and keep them away from Japan so it would fall under the American sphere of influence.
>>265877
>This entire post
You're a fucking retard and almost none of that is true besides the sphere of influence part
>>265891
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p508_Hoffman.html
If I'm a retard you must be monumentally stupid then.
>>265912
Yeah, no. Let's see some actual proofs. Up until the atomic bombs Japan's terms of surrender was to keep pieces of its empire
>>265912
>Institute for Historical Review
wew lad
maybe back away from the computer for a bit
>>265926
The fucking article proper is on there, and its view able on the tribune's own archives. Typical that I would expect you to ad-hom to reaffirm your own bias though.
>>263147
>romanizing war
I like the Army thing as much as the next guy but garison is good.
>>262309
I had a great-uncle who was a Marine officer on the planning comittee. The story that has come down is that the nukes were a mercy for everyone who would have been involved.
Also, apparently there were plans that if the Russians actually made a move on the main islands of Japan the Navy would politely tell them to piss off.
>>262309
>the Japanese had their entire population willing to die for their emperor
This is entirely untrue. Stupid Westerners don't understand that Japanese culture isn't a samurai monolith, and if you actually believe 35 million people, mostly civilians, would all fight to the death against a professional army that had essentially already defeated their professional army, then you're a massive retard and should leave this board
>>266031
I'd second this, by the way.
>>266031
Japs still had over 3 million soldiers
>>265466
>Tushima
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tsushima
>>262489
Well lets look at the facts:
The Russians had 3 battleships, two of pre-WW1 vintage (Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya and Parizhskaya Kommuna) and another on loan from the Royal Navy (Royal Sovereign, aka Arkhangelsk), six Kirov class cruisers, three light cruisers (two formerly Imperial Russian, another on loan from the US), and probably around 70 something destroyers. Far larger than anything the Japanese could muster. They wouldn't have to worry about air cover due to there being no air assets that the Japanese could bring in case of an invasion in, lets say, May 1946 (due to all these naval assets being moved to Vladivostok or elsewhere from the Baltic, Black, and Arctic Seas, also assuming the Japanese are still alive) after Japan has used the last of its aircraft in kamikaze attacks on the Americans. If they did need bomber support, the Kuril islands would be a start. But yes, Russia would be in no place to start their own invasion of Japan, even under the threat of being purged.
>>266301
I would point out that the Paris Commune is in the black sea, and can't leave without Turkish permission. And none of those vessels can make it to the far east without refueling at ports inevitably controlled either by the British or the Americans, which means this operation is only even a conceivable go if the western allies allow it.
And the problem isn't warships, it's troop transports, and ones that are capable of carrying military equipment to a beach held by the enemy and then dumping supplies for however many days or weeks until you can secure a port.
Doing that is less easy than it sounds, and I have grave doubts as to whether or not the Soviets can pull something like that off.
>>266414
Project Hula provided the USSR with amphibious assault capabilities, except they didn't get too many landing ships.
>>266031
This. The only way the narrative of Downfall being a million casualties is by appealing to crude national characteristics.
Even though the Germans were more suicide prone.
>be okinawa
>get invaded by japan
>forced to concede trade rights and jap influence in government
>be okinawa
>japan going through modernization
>get annexed by japan
>treated like a second class citizen
>have to wear a little wooden plaque
>japan oppressively trying to eliminate okinawan culture and language
>many forced on an exodus to brazil and other countries
>be okinawa
>japan starts a war with america
>japanese tell me americans will rape and torture me
>gives bamboo spears and grenades to me and the childrens
>says its better to blow yourself up than be captured
>americans invade okinawa but not japan
>americans say you deserved it because pearl harbor
>be okinawa
>wants independence from japan after wwii
>americans say no because they want an airbase
>americans sign a secret agreement saying japan gets to keep okinawa if america gets an airbase
>americans say the only way to stop being occupied with american martial law is to accept being in japan
>american airbase soldiers rape okinawa girls
>japan wont do anything because lol okinawa
>tfw okinawa
>>266452
Couldn't the USA keep those ships tied up at port for weeks or even months on BS reasons?
heck if need be get a few of them to have engine problems that would take a engine rehaul to fix
even with the training the soviet still didn't have the hulls for an invasion
>>266509
Heavenly Zhonghua will always support Liuqiu's freedom from barbaric 小日本.
>>266509
>be okinawan
>try to get job in japan
>they look up your family records
>dont hires you because youre okinawan and not japanese
>>266708
>be japanese
>gaijins think okinawans might resent japan
>gaijins think okinawa might want independence
>NO NO OKINAWA IS PURE 100% NIHON
>>265933
Then get us the article proper, stormfag. You're the one making the heterodox assertion, nazi boy. The burden of proof is upon you.
Check out Gar Alperovitz's work on the nuclear bombings, or this brief article in foreign policy magazine the makes some of the same arguments:
http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/
Basically Operation Downfall was never going to happen. The Japanese were ready to surrender without the bombs being dropped.
>>266509
End of Ryukyu kingdom best day of my life tbqhwy family
>>265070
>rolling up anything in a country that's basically a guerilla warfare fantasy kitchen
Chuckled.
>>267782
OK. Why do you think, without appeals to national character, Japan would be a guerilla warfare fantasy kitchen?
>>270234
not him, but there's tons of mountains in the interior right?
>>270560
Theoretically. But you run into a few problems there. Mountains are great for irregular warfare when you have people who are largely self-sufficient in the mountains, like Greece and Yugoslavia, or the Scottish Highlands in the old days. Decentralized populations with pastoral traditions.
They're a pain in the ass because you can control all the towns, all the roads, all the railways, and all the farms, and they're still going to be self-sufficient and take potshots at you.
But Japan doesn't have any tradition like that. They're a society in the 1940s that is overwhelmingly focused on rice agriculture, and fishing.
While resistance in the mountains is possible for encircled Japanese troops, you are going to see a people that will be able to naturally head for the hills.
They're still going to have to come down from the mountains for food and supply, and will never be able to 'blend' with the population.
>>262695
underrated post
If it did proceed, a "Peoples Republic of Hokkaido" may have been a cold war reality.
>>270560
Remember that the fascist Great Yamato Cult leaders felt that ordinary Japanese were racial filth. Villages lacked the autonomous modern capacity for resistance.
>>270602
the great ainu could have their own supreme leader :3. when they get a nuke they could threaten japanese security eternally
>>263546
Except /pol/ hates current Australia
>>270614
This. This is also why, in turn, Japan welcomed the Americans so openly once they surrendered.
Also, the IJA will never change tracts and start actually arming people and giving them encouragement for independent operations. That is on the list of "why they're fighting this war in the first place."
