>Check catalogue
>Notice there's an Orthodox general but no Catholic general
Post anything related to Catholic history, art, music, theology, ect.
How do Catholics still think their church has any legitimacy after this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donation_of_Constantine
Fundamentalists are sometimes horrified when the Virgin Mary is referred to as the Mother of God. However, their reaction often rests upon a misapprehension of not only what this particular title of Mary signifies but also who Jesus was, and what their own theological forebears, the Protestant Reformers, had to say regarding this doctrine.
A woman is a man’s mother either if she carried him in her womb or if she was the woman contributing half of his genetic matter or both. Mary was the mother of Jesus in both of these senses; because she not only carried Jesus in her womb but also supplied all of the genetic matter for his human body, since it was through her—not Joseph—that Jesus "was descended from David according to the flesh" (Rom. 1:3).
Since Mary is Jesus’ mother, it must be concluded that she is also the Mother of God: If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and if Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God. There is no way out of this logical syllogism, the valid form of which has been recognized by classical logicians since before the time of Christ.
Is there anyone here who prays in Latin?
What resource did you use to learn the pronunciation? I'm trying to follow along with youtube videos but I always end up butchering it.
>>255173
>all of the genetic matter
at the very least the Y chromosome was of divine origin
Men win again
>>255170
Daily reminder that infinity chan daily has threads coordinating Orthodox posters to attack and manipulate /his/ because they have no lives.
Also it can be explained because that is not the basis for papal authority, obviously. You will not find a reference to the Donation of Constantine in defense of the papacy, so you bringing it up is a childish strawman.
>>255173
>calling Mary the Queen of Heaven
>the only place in the Bible where Queen of Heaven is mentioned, it refers to a pagan goddess retards were making idols of
You genuinely can't make this shit up
>>255173
Only protestants would get so butthurt over this
>G-god can't have a mother, she is mother of christ . . . a-at best.
>>255184
Found this yesterday. It hurts the Protestant:
Like Jesus, "we have to be born through her, for she is the depository of all graces. What you can say of Mary, you can say of the Church. She is the blueprint, the model."
As we all are, Mary "is dependent on mercy, and mercy [Jesus as The Divine Mercy] is dependent on her. It's a paradox," Fr. Donald said. "So it is with us. We can't live without [God's] mercy, and we can't be born again without Mary. We will never know Jesus Christ's fullness without His mother."
Father Donald then went in an unexpected though fruitful direction, turning to science, specifically, the phenomenon of fetal microchimerism. This recent biological finding strongly suggests that when a woman has a child, cells of that child will continue to live in the mother the rest of her life.
Amazingly, these microchimeric cells come to defend her life when she is sick. In fact, they are among the most aggressive defenders of the mother's health. Likewise, we retain cells in our own bodies that come from our mothers. As the mother of Jesus, Mary retained her Son's cells throughout her life ("The Church has never dogmatically declared that Mary ever died. She never died because she had the cells of the God-Man").
>>255192
The fact that a pagan deity was known as the queen of heaven doesn't mean this term can't rightfully be applied, in another sense altogether, to Mary. The pagan king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, is called the king of kings by Daniel (Dn 2:37), yet this doesn't preclude Jesus from being called by the same title (Rv 17:14; 19:16).
Since the destiny of all Christians is to reign as kings and queens with Christ in heaven (Eph 2:12; Rv 1:6; 5:10), and since Mary is the preeminent Christian, there's nothing wrong with giving her the title which Christ, the King of Kings, bestowed upon her in making Mary his mother.
>>255199
>father Donald
>bringing up Ducktales in a theology thread
any basic catholic reading lists anyone has to post
>>255211
The thing is, Mary isn't referred to as the Queen of Heaven at any point of the Bible. This is on the level of calling St. Anthony "Baal" or some shit.
>>255157
What's the name of that cross design?
>>255216
Required Reading:
>The Bible (Douy-Rheims)
>Catechism of the Catholic Church
>Parts of the Summa Theologica (Specifically Part 1 and Part 3).
Apologetics:
>Handbook of Catholic Apologetics-Peter Kreeft and Ronald Tacelli
>The Everlasting Man-Chesterton
>Orthodoxy-Chesterton
>Catholicism-Journey Into the Heart of the Faith- Robert Barron
Theology:
>Summa Theologica-St. Thomas Aquinas
>City of God-Augustine
>The Works of St. Anselm
>On the Incarnation-St. Athanasius
>Defense Against the Arians-St. Athanasius
>The Consolation of Philosophy-Boethius
>Pensees-Pascal
Biography/Conversion works:
>The Confessions-St. Augustine
>Apologia Pro Vita Sua-John Henry Newman
>The Seven Storey Mountain-Thomas Merton
Historical/Sociological works:
>The Formation of Christendom-Christopher Dawson
>The Dividing of Christendom-Christopher Dawson
>History of the Catholic Church-James Hitchcock
>Keepers of the Keys of Heaven: A History of the Papacy
Literature:
> Shusaku Endo- Silence
>The Divine Comedy-Dante Alighieri
>The Works of Flannery O'Connor-Flannery O'Connor
>The Power and the Glory-Graham Greene
>Diary of a Country Priest-Georges Bernanos
>The Works of G.K. Chesterton
>The Moviegoer-Walker Percy
>Lancelot-Walker Percy
>The Lord of the Rings-J.R.R. Tolkien
>The Book of the New Sun-Gene Wolfe
>Brideshead Revisited-Evelyn Waugh
>The Canterbury Tales-Chaucer
>A Canticle for Liebowitz-Walter M. Miller
Mysticism:
>The Dark Night of the Soul-St. John of the Cross
>Collected Writings- St. John of the Cross
>The Interior Castle- St. Teresa of Avila
>Revelations of Divine Love- Julian of Norwich
>New Seeds of Contemplation- Thomas Merton
>No Man is an Island-Thomas Merton
>Thoughts in Solitude-Thomas Merton
Required Reading:
>The Bible (Douy-Rheims)
>Catechism of the Catholic Church
>Parts of the Summa Theologica (Specifically Part 1 and Part 3).
>mfw papists unironically think dulia isn't worship
>>255234
thats some 80's anime.
>>255229
Mary is a Queen in the Davidic queen mother sense. If you read the historical books of the Bible, you will see that many times the lists of Israel's and Judah's kings include the king's name, and then the name of his queen mother. She was that important. The Queen Mother's job was to listen to petitions from the people, talk to the King about them and plead the case of those needing help, and advising the King on all sorts of matters.
The wife of Jesus, the King of Heaven, is the Church. (King's wife was a different royal position in Israel, although obviously a very honorable one.) The Church is also the mother of the royal children (ie, those of us who are members of the Church), "giving birth" to us through Baptism, and raising us by teaching us about Jesus.
Ideally, the queen mother and the king's wife would be a team, supporting the Davidic kingship and the whole country. Obviously there's no rivalry between the Church and Mary. (How could Mary not love her Son's Body? How could His Body not love His mom?)
>>255237
>mfw protestants are eternally butthurt
>>255234
It's the cross of St. James the Elder. It's painted on a scallop shell because the shell represents the Way of St. James. There are many paths to take, but they all end at the same point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camino_de_Santiago_%28route_descriptions%29
What's the context of that picture?
Did the Japs invent a Muslim killing robot?
Mary was Jesus' mother in the sense of a parent, as in adoption, so to speak.
Jesus is the Word of God that was born in human flesh. Mary was only a vessel for the living God to be born into as Human with His Divine nature.
>>255237
I am trying to respond with some decent apologetics, but this is just a shitpost. You realize that Catholics understand true worship with the Real Presence, right? This is why we understand what "honoring" someone is. You barely even give honor to God and then turn around and criticize true worship as well.
Sad stuff. I'll pray for you.
>>255216
>>255216
Hey man, by the way, if you tell me a bit about yourself and some stuff you're interested in, I can try to recommend something specifically.
>>255256
>being this heretical
Gnosticism much? You're proving the point that Protestantism is just old heresies revived with statements like this.
>>255283
i like anime
>>255319
I would recommend finding a copy of Thomas a Kempis's Imitation of Christ. It's good for meditation and encouraging prayer. You can read a small section in between episode of Himouto! or another inferior anime.
Seriously, it's a great place to start and it can be read in short spurts. Should be very easy to find.
>>255260
>dulia
>from Latin dulia, from Ancient Greek δουλεία (douleía, “slavery”), from δοῦλος (doûlos, “slave”)
>Ἀλλὰ τότε μὲν οὐk εἰδότες Θεὸν ἐδουλεύσατε τοῖς φύσει μὴ οὖσιν θεοῖς·
>In Galatians 4:8, Paul says, “when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods.” The phrase “were slaves” (or “you served”) is from the verb douleuō. Paul was clear: to serve (dulia) anyone other than God in a religious context is wrong—it is idolatry. Hence, when Catholics pray to the Mary (and the saints, which is clearly an act or religious worship), bow before statues, give Mary hyperdulia, etc., they are doing the very thing in which God prohibits.
>In the Vulgate, both duleuo (to serve) and latreuo (to worship) are rendered by the same term, servio
>The reality that there is no distinction between dulia and latria is highlighted by the fact that the Hebrew word, avad, (Hebrew for "worship") is translated as both dulia and latria in the Septuagint
Wake the fuck up m7
>>255251
Better than being eternally damned.
>>255339
>he started quoting scripture out of context at me
Hilarious. The stretches in your interpretation from whatever place you copy pasted that from are pathetic.
Nothing you quote can change the fact that how we honor Mary simply isn't worship. You can assert it all you want, but it's not true. Now if you want to try to make a more sane post that isn't typical Protestant fare I can give you a more fleshed out response. But you're just making assertions of what other people think that simply aren't true.
That's not a conversation; that's just me humoring your inability to get out of your own head and what Pastor Jim told you.
>>255364
The context is provided if you read the entirety of Galatians 4.
>IT'S NOT TRUE I'M NOT LISTENING YOU ARE STOOPID LALALALALALALA
YOU
ARE
WORSHIPPING
A
DEAD
WOMAN
Wake up.
Why do Catholics complain every thread about Protestants hating Catholics, when every Catholic thread proves that they hate Protestants even more?
This is why every Catholic thread turns into endless shitposting and name-calling, because the Catholics and Protestants literally declare war on each other. At least the Orthodox Generals manage to keep the threads clean (when Constantine isn't posting).
>>255273
I read Christianity and Culture, and it didn't have anything to do with theology.
>>255417
Yeah that list is :/
>>255406
Reread the thread. Catholic threads just get ambushed by Protestants. Orthodox Generals are what they are because they are a small, isolated contingent of Christians that do not have a substantial impact in countries that by and large post on 4chan. There's no immediate anger or bias related to them. With Catholics it is different because we are a large and substantial population.
Compare a Catholic post: >>255241
to a Protestant post: >>255404
And you can see the problem.
>>255459
>impotently complaining about protestants instead of addressing the scripture quotation relevant to the debate
How cute.
>>255478
So are you trolling too, or are you the other poster, or are you not acknowledging the points I just raised at all? Either way I'm going to stop feeding you...
>>255255
Its from Five Star Stories and its a symbol that shows up on a lot of the Amaterasu Kingdom Demesnes' stuff. Although, I think Nagano put it there purely for aesthetic reasons.
>Did the Japs invent a Muslim killing robot?
Well, there is this
My family and I have been fighting over intercessory prayers lately.
They think that praying for the intercession of someone who is not canonized or beatified by Rome is akin to praying to just any random person down the street. But saints and blessed people weren't born so: especially more so in modern times, you have to prove that they interceded due to prayer in order to move their cause forward. If no one prayed for the intercession of someone who wasn't beatified, well, there wouldn't be beatification!
But CP is illegal anon
>>255579
I already did. Your response was to say "That's stupid and you're wrong." Maybe it's time you took a break from this thread. You're not making yourself look very good, or the religion you represent. Just go make your own thread about your religion and stop being a belligerent retard. You got your answers.
God bless!
>>255590
>I already did.
I see two quotes to that post, none of which is yours, unless you were trying to samefag it up without your trip.
>>255612
The Blessed Mother wants your devotion. She will show you the quickest and purest path to Jesus.
>>255620
>please pray to Astarte with me
>>255630
Mary loves you so much and wants to guide you to her Son through the sacraments. Have you actually eaten the body of Christ? Do you know what real communion with him is?
>>255641
Please stop with this satanic proselytizing and provide a proper reply to >>255339
>>255170
Because we aren't Donatists like you are heretic. "How can Peter have been an apostle when he denied Christ three times?"
>>255660
Make yourself a slave to Mary and you will find God, my friend!
You are giving her permission to form you, discipline you, and mold you into a true follower of Christ. Do not be afraid, though, because she loves you. She will always take care of you, and knows better than anybody how to do so. It is always good to remember her words to St. Juan Diego in Mexico, "Hear and let it penetrate into your heart, my dear little son: let nothing discourage you, nothing depress you: let nothing alter your heart or your countenance. Also do not fear any illness or vexation, anxiety or pain. Am I not here who am your Mother? Are you not under my shadow and protection? Am I not your fountain of life? Are you not in the folds of my mantle, in the crossing of my arms? Is there anything else that you need?"
>>255192
Read up bud
http://fisheaters.com/mary.html
>>255703
>I'm truly interested in apologetics, it's just all these mean protestants shitposting!
>posts some emotional drivel instead of actual exegetical refutation
Yawn.
>>255725
Why don't you love Mary? Jesus did...
>>255728
I'm sure Jesus built statues of Mary in the Temple and used her to communicate with God, oh wait no he didn't.
>>255703
No one Except Jesus is alive and in heaven... They are still in the ground.
>>255754
>>255759
>they didn't answer the question
Jesus spent 30 years with Mary because being with her is the best way to give glory to God. Also, prove to me that people aren't in heaven. Because the early Christians (aka Catholics) sure thought they were. You know, the Christians taught by the Apostles who knew Jesus.
>>255812
So you're saying people go to heaven and then during the last day they're gonna be judged again? Sort of like temporary vacation in heaven?
>>255812
According to the Scriptures, “ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God”. And because we are ALL sinners by virtue of our natural birth - we are all under the curse of death.
>>255872
Now post the actual relevant scripture about what the angels say about Mary :)
>>255869
See you have no theology so no clue about anything. This is why you should be a Catholic. St. Thomas has some words to say to you.
Hint: What is a soul?
>>255932
Blood.
hello, is this the "protestants BTFO" thread?
>>256068
apparently ;)
>>255157
>As the Modernist crisis grew under the impetus of modern philosophy, the extrinsic tradition was eroded and subverted due to several factors. The first was a change of view about the nature of man. With the onslaught of rationalism, then empiricism and later Kantianism and other modern innovations about the nature of man, the Thomistic, realist view of man was supplanted. At first, this occurred outside the Church and was kept at bay by formal teaching within the Church that maintained a proper view of man. The Pr*testants, not having an intellectual heritage, quickly succumbed to the modern philosophies. As the Modernist crisis spread within the Church and the curiosity and fascination with modern philosophy grew, the view of man held by Catholics began to change in the latter part of the nineteenth century and during the twentieth.
Thanks, Pr*testants!
>>256086
>Muh crusades! Look at how cool this knight looks, crusading against the unbelievers. So fucking awesome. Did I mention the crusades?
>I can't wait to purge me some heretics, fuck yeah! Blood for the blood god!
I wouldn't even dignify 4chan "catholics" by calling them pagans and idolaters, they're literally just neckbeard W40k roleplayers who think that by slapping a traditional label on their LARPing they'll appear any less pathetic and comical.
>>256163
Are you retarded? Honest question? Here's a (You) fresh from the keyboard. First of all, knights are actually really cool, and I wonder if you were raised by or to be a homosexual to say otherwise? Second, you type like an autist.
One (You) is all I got tonight. Kek, knights aren't cool. Ya got me!
>>256177
Whatever neckbeard. When you're more interested in actual theology rather than le cool wars and utilitarian social drivel, let me know.
>>256236
>knights aren't cool
I bet you're a fucking lib
>>256266
I bet you're a fucking nerd.
>>256284
>calling someone a nerd
>on 4chan
Have you forgotten where you are mate? This is 4chan after all, most people here are 'nerds' if that's what you wish to call it. Even more so, we're on a board discussing history for fuck's sake, that's nerdy in itself.
>>255185
>Daily reminder that infinity chan daily has threads coordinating Orthodox posters to attack and manipulate /his/ because they have no lives.
link?
>>255157
who >the man part of jesus and god part of jesus are seperate but held together by divinity and joined at ressurectiion
here?
>>255672
Uh, "Donatists" have precisely zero to do with the Donation of Constantine.
Catholics once again demonstrate intelligence, class, and serious rhetorical chops in a great apologetic thread swamped by retards. I'm gonna convert I've decided. I'm coming home Il Papa!
I just don't have any faith fâm
going to church and finding silly songs and people clapping doesn't help either
>>255339
This crap exegesis doesn't work especially when context is actually given.
The context refers to being enslaved to false idols and shit or serving them rather than serving God himself.
For all we know one can serve God and venerate the Saints since noting here ever implies or notes how Saints are not to be venerated. It just says "do not serve false gods" in a nutshell.
If any you are putting a different subject into a verse that never intends to deal with that shit in the first place.
Protestants are really just plain stupid it seems.
>>255174
Bumping for interest
My mother is very Catholic and she really enjoys spirituality type of stuff, do you guys have any suggestions for books I might get her?
>>260147
A fancy bible. Can't be disappointed with the good book.
>>255157
What happened to our pasta filled with resources?
Anyways, Catholic here. Can we discuss theology instead of arguing against protties about Mary.
>>260147
Screwtape letters
>>260147
I'm reading one called "Franciscan Prayer" by Ilia Delio right now. It's p. good even though I think the author might be a bit of a l*beral
Any good books on Catholicism in Eastern countries?
>>255273
>religion
>fiction includes fantasy
>>261225
>who is CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien
>>261225
>being a fucking phillistine
i seriously hope no one else does this. "muh atheism" right?
>>255157
Hey /Catholic/, there's a cathedral within walking distance of my place of work. I've never been to a catholic mass before and was thinking about going and sitting in while on my lunch break, since they have mass there every day of the week at noon.
So, since I've never been before, what should I expect? What is appropriate behavior? I figured I would just hang out in the back so as to not disturb anyone and keep quiet. If I like it, I might make a regular thing of it.
Also I get an hour lunch, about how long does a weekday mass usually run?
>>256324
There were a few on /Christian/, but those were mostly in the early days of this board, I haven't seen one in a while.
>>261509
Hi friend. Feel free to walk right in and sit wherever. There will be some readings, singing, and standing kneeling, etc. The people in the seats respond a few times, but don't worry about no knowing this. Just soak it all in; maybe read online a bit about the mass and theology. It will help you appreciate it better. I'll see if I can think of any resources.
Weekday masses are typically a half hour in my experience. Anyway, the only thing you shouldn't do is go up for the eucharist. You only do this once you become a catholic officially. Everything else is money.
>>261509
This just hit me! Here, take the time to listen to this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGQLWj37KKk
Trust me when I say this is well worth the time. It is a God-tier (no pun intended) introduction to Catholic mass. If you listen to this you are going to experience the mass on a whole different level.
Be sure to come back to these threads and post your experiences after you give it a shot!
Who here wants to do the Way of Saint James?
I'm actually an agnostic but consider myself a cultural catholic. I would love to experience something that so many christians for centuries have experienced, especially to arrive on the jubilee which will be the next time in 2021.
>>261644
What is the Way of Saint James? Is it like a tourist path? This looks interesting.
>>261729
St. James the Elder is a very influential figure in Spanish culture. Apocryphal stories say while he was a man he travelled to Roman Hispania and evangelized the population. 1000 years later during the Reconquest he would return to Spain as a spirit and help the Christian forces defeat the Muslims.
Of course, none of that is true and no one thinks it actually happened (even my grandparents from rural Latin America know it never happened), but it's part of Iberian mythos
The way of St. James is a pilgrimage that ends on Santiago de Compostela in north west Spain. The traditional path is shown in >>261644, and it takes you across the northern shores of Spain.
You do not need to take the traditional path, there are many less-travelled ways to get to the city. The scallop shell I posted in the OP is an item given to pilgrims who walk the way of St. James. There are many groves in the shell but like the pilgrimage, they all end at the same point.
Agnostic here looking for Jesus and is really ignorant on religious matters.
How can I get into Roman Catholicism? I was baptized Episcopalian and my god father is a Catholic priest but religiously I am confused.
Does anyone know any good comentary on the Song of Songs?
I have Origen, St. Bernard and "Thinking Biblically" by LaCoque
>>262282
Walk into your local Catholic church. Talk to a priest or anyone working there. They'll be super happy to help guide you.
God bless!
>>261644
American here, want to start as far as possible from Santiago de Compostela so I can get as much out of a plane ticket to Europe. Sadly, don't know when I would be able to do this, let alone afford this.
>>262236
I always thought it was rad that Cordoba Cathedral has a statue of Saint James in it despite it being the original centre of Islam in Spain and Muslims are still hell bent on praying in it.
It's like having a big statue of Enver Pasha as a fuck you to all the Orthodox tourists in Hagia Sophia.
>>262478
It was a church before it was a mosque.
Why do you all think of the end times prophecies regarding Holy Christian Monarch?
>>262486
I think it's basically fan-fiction honestly. In the end times the only holy monarch that's going to make an appearance will be Christ the King.
>>262498
Even if a lot of the conditions are currently met for him to come along?
>>255872
>>255930
Protestink gets BTFO.
Literally just provided own example of why Mary, unlike you or I, is in Heaven; the Immaculate Conception.
I love the smell of roasted heretic in the morning.
>>257909
Welcome home, brother.
>>262503
He told us not to try and guess the time that he will arrive. To attempt to do so is nothing short of a waste of time. Also time to take back Hagia Sofia. Reparations for Ottoman crimes commited from 1453-1918
What's your favorite hymn, /his/?
>>255174
I took two years of Latin in high school under what was believed to be the classical pronunciation. It's easy to adapt to other pronunciations. Try singing along to Latin hymns. Pronunciation is pretty easy once you get familiar with the language.
>TFW comment on Called to Communion debunking Sola Scriptura by citing Andrew Mcgowan's "Ancient Christian Worship" only to be ignored by the Protestants
>>255157
guys as a catholic im confused
Am I supposed to want to help the syrain refugees or no?
>>264701
Nope.
"Helping" them would endanger your fellow Christians by introducing a crime prone minority group into your country.
>>264701
love thy neighbor
>>264701
You want to help the refugees, not the terrorists posing as refugees.
>>264701
kek catholics demonstrate a unified front on this issue unlike orthodoxy, who are obsessed with helping people killing christians. sorry this isn't an issue for catholics like the libshit orthodox
Does God help us when we need it?
I was a deist for a few years, and I can't shake the view that God doesn't really care about our daily lives.
Who is the patron saint of banter?
>>265611
The church claims he occasionally swoops by to cure someone of cancer. He's rather arbitrary in who he chooses to heal.
>Sola fide
>"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" James 2:20
PROTESTANTS BTFO
>>266447
>>265611
It sounds like you need to pray some more. Are you interested in God serving you, or acclimating yourself to God's will? Christians believe we should strive for the latter. God isn't your personal miracle worker.
>>265611
The book of Job is a rather important text in that regard
Hello everyone, me >>261509 here. A buddy from work and I went to mass on our lunch. It's was only 30 minutes so we got back in plenty of time. It was pretty neat. I didn't do any of the crossing myself or kneeling because I had no idea when I was supposed to. I either stayed seated, or stood up with everyone else when appropriate. My friend did the same since he is also not catholic. I'm considering going to a Catholic Church closer to home for Sunday mass.
My experience at the cathedral was pretty pleasant. It was nice and quiet, they didn't play shitty Christian rock music, and the scenery inside is pretty awesome desu.
So, what should I expect from a Sunday mass? Will there ever be shitty Christian rock music? How long do those usually run? Will there ever be awkward calls for anyone who doesn't know The Lord to come forward now and then the preacher starts yelling at them?
Keep in mind I live in Texas and most of my church experiences have been with fundies.
>>266750
There are very few churches that play rock music. It's not the norm, but it is possible that some are around. It should be easy enough to avoid though. In my entire county there is one that does that.
Sunday mass simply has more singing and an extra reading. There are a few more prayers, so typically it lasts closer to one hour. There is no calling out people in church. We try to maintain a respectful atmosphere. The only time you would be in front of the church is if you were getting baptized there.
I recommend you continue to read up on stuff. Here is something about the mass: http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-institution-of-the-mass. Some good book recommendations are "Theology of the Liturgy" by Joseph Ratzinger (very dense but reading it would make you more knowledgeable than most) and Confessions of a Mega Church Pastor by Allen White (an easy read that will blow your mind).
I also recommend during your next trip you take a long around for statues of Mary. Either say a prayer in front of it for faith or say one silently during the Mass. Marian devotion is the surest way to Christ and true faith. Here are some resources for all the usual reservations about this: http://www.catholic.com/browse/Mary/all/all/all
And also the classic work itself: https://www.ewtn.com/library/Montfort/TRUEDEVO.HTM#Part%20I:%20Ch.%201
A lot of churches are structured so that you can spend time walking around and praying/meditating about various things. This includes nooks with statues, the stations of the cross, the Blessed Sacrament, chapels, etc. Consider spending time exploring both the cathedral and the church you will visit and even asking someone about it.
>>266750
> Will there ever be shitty Christian rock music?
Sadly, yes.
You need to find a conservative (preferably a tridentine) church to avoid it
>>266841
Whatever, bro. Ordinary form is fine.
>>255174
I went to a Catholic private school which taught me how to pray in Latin, German Ecclesiastical pronunciation, though, not classical.
>>266750
>Will there ever be shitty Christian rock music?
I have never heared rock during a sunday mass.
But than I'm from europe so maybe there's a difference.
>>255759
Luke 23:43.
>>266750
>Will there ever be awkward calls for anyone who doesn't know The Lord to come forward now and then the preacher starts yelling at them?
I can honestly say I have never seen this at a Catholic mass. Accepting Jesus is a long process and is something you knowingly prepare for.
>>266849
It's good as long as they don't play shitty rock music.
My old catholic church played shitty christian rock music, and they played shitty TV shows on a projector before/after mass
Is it weird to go to mass by yourself? How formal should you dress for the average Catholic mass?
>>267589
No it's not weird. Dress is typically pretty lax (unfortunately). To play it safe, a collared shirt and khakis are all you need, but honestly no one would bat an eye if you went in jeans and a normal shirt.
>>267589
Me >>266750 here, when I went today during my lunch break the majority of people were there alone. This is likely due to the fact that the cathedral is located close to a lot of businesses, so I imagine a lot of people were there on their lunch breaks like I was.
Didn't seem awkward at all. Honestly from what I saw, mass seems to be a very personal and introspective thing. People were praying silently by themselves for various things. It was a very serious vibe yet at the same time somewhat lax. It was very different from any fundamentalist church I've been to. I actually kind of liked it. You could walk in there, sit down, and reflect on everything and you didn't have anyone bothering you. There was one part of the sermon(if that's what it's called) where you shook hands with your neighbor but that was it.
It was in its own way pretty enticing. I really wanted to be able to partake in the singing and whatnot, but it's hard to do when you're not familiar with the process. It made me want to learn more about the church.
>>255157
How is Deus Vult pronounced?
Did they already have a modern V back then, or is it Deus Wult?
Also, can someone give a good explanation on Arianism and the Holy trinity
>>268464
Day-oos Vuhlt, or Wult if you want to be mister "classical Latin"
>>268464
Basically, Arianism denies the divinity of Christ, that He and God are completely different things.
Trinitarianism considers Jesus Christ, the Father God, and the Holy Ghost to be the ONE Christian God. They should never be considered separate persons.
>>268609
I've read a bit more, and it seems more likely to me it would be Vult instead of Wult.
The first crusade takes place in 1096-1099.
The first written distinction between U and V is apparently from 1386 according to wikipedia.
So, I'm guessing it was already pretty established in vulgar latin when it was spoken.
>>268648
>>268660
Can you name a book or article that goes into a little bit more of detail?
>>268701
The History of the Catholic Church by Fr. John Vidmar, OP is a great book that covers the history of the Church and the major councils and heresies.
But also something like this: https://www.ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/HERESY3.TXT could be a start.
>>268732
Vidmar is a great historian of the church, he teaches at my college and is an incredibly intelligent (and funny) man to have the pleasure to know.
>>268821
That's really awesome! What college by the way? Reading some of his work has inspired me to look into the Dominican order as part of my discernment of the priesthood. Any other good books by him you'd recommend?
>>264701
I believe helping the refugees is the right thing to do. The USCCB has come out in support in taking refugees, as they suffer much violence and fear of the same magnitude as the Paris attacks almost everyday.
"At the end of life we will be judged by 'I was hungry, and you gave me something to eat, I was naked and you clothed me. I was homeless, and you took me in.'" - Blessed Mother Teresa
>>268305
It's heart-warming to hear your interest, brother. I hope you continue your faith journey, and it brings you to a place of genuine solace and comfort. Good for you taking the initiative.
>>268832
Providence College in Rhode Island, run by the Dominicans. I haven't read his works but I have attended his presentations on the history of the Dominican Order and I can tell you he's worthwhile no matter what. He has a book "Praying with the Dominicans" which catalogues the Dominican way of prayer throughout history, which I'm sure will be helpful in your discernment, as prayer (especially in community) is essential to the Dominicans. I definitely would recommend joining a group in Vespers if you can, it's a wonderful experience. I wish you the best of luck in your discernment!
>tfw just recently started RCIA
I left the church for a number of years and I want to return. I was baptised as a Catholic, and I went to church until I was 12 or 13, I'm now 20.
Problem is I can't receive communion until I've confessed, and I left before I made my first confession.
Is it true I can just go into confession without receiving formal instruction and training about it?
>>271929
Yes. It does not matter how long it's been or what you've done, as long as you are truly repentant and sorrowful, God acting through the priest will take you in with open arms. That being said there are some technical things to know. When you go in the priest will make the sign of the cross with you and you will say "Forgive me father for I have sinned, it has been [such and such an amount of time] since my last confession" typically but in your case you can just simply tell him this is your first confession and tell him your story. At the end you will say the Act of Contrition and then you will be given a penance (a number of prayers to say afterwards). If you have any questions the Priest should be incredibly happy to help you, they're very happy to see people participate as much as possible in their faith. It's common to be afraid of confession but it truly is a fulfilling and graceful sacrament.
>>255157
Some faggot made this and I saved it.
r8
Reminder: Because of the many crimes wrought by Vatican II, ALL Catholics now MUST take the initiative to learn the manner and practices that form our immensely rich and beautiful Faith. It is an unfortunate reality that since Vatican II much of it is simply no longer being transmitted to newer generations. But there are many resources online, this being just one of many:
http://www.fisheaters.com/beingcatholic.html
Everything is a great gift from God. Rejoice in everything, you are an unceasing spiritual being with an eternal destiny in God’s great universe. Never forget it.
>>255174
>tfw italian
>tfw natural pronunciation
>>273766
>journeytoorthodoxy
>on a catholic general
no thanks
Does confession make anyone else really nervous?
I mean, I haven't done anything illegal, and I know the priest can never say a word about it, but I get knots in the pits of my stomach before I confess.
What are some recommended Catholic music albums?
Is it weird that as an atheist/former catholic I wish I could find a logical reason to believe in anything again simply because these days the mainstream catholic culture is less toxic and depressing than modern atheists?
>>274822
holy fuck that cover art
>>274777
It's pretty normal desu. You're not the only person in the world who got nervous about confessing their moral transgressions to another person.
>>275023
Just go to mass bruh. Don't be afraid to be open about where you stand on things. If that's really the culture you want to be around, then start being around those people.
>>275023
>tfw can't be an atheist because vast swath of atheists are 2edgy5me and scientistic
>tfw can't be a christian because vast swath of christians are 2bigoted5me and superstitious
What are some useful Catholic phone apps or computer programs?
Laudate for Android is pretty good
Why do catholics want to force evil on women who have been raped and are pregnant with scum offspring? The child is an offense to the mother as it's her violation personified, meaning a constant psychological attack on her person, an economical burden she does not want to take on, meaning a constant attack on her wealth and resources, and a propagation of a bad man's genes. So it has no right to exist.
Also, have some solid modern Christian music and music with Christian themes. All from different artists and different styles. These are some recommendations from /mu/ and anons here. It's in no way comprehensive though.
>LOOKING FOR RECOMMENDATIONS, PLS HELP
>Marvin Gaye's "God is Love"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA7C815I104
>Om's Pilgrimage Album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK6wJUNirbs
>Sufjan Steven's Seven Swans Album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVkgtdAWLGo&list=PLZqsyBiYZFQ3ErFCewScrmeG9xfsPI8ga
>mewithoutyou - Sun and Moon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mor7syiTSE
>Young Oceans - ONLY YOU (TOKEN MAINSTREAM ADDITION)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imEvd1ck4fs
>Bobby McFerrin's Joshua
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DRketdk07o
>Psalter's Magnificat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfOrC827FKg
>Janelle Monae's Victory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ6wkOO_MEA
>Johnny Cash's God's Gonna Cut You Down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht7mxF9XZiA
Here is my usual hymnal selection
>A nice Latin hymn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRi1GDoaQu4
>A nice Coptic hymn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL1lxH7s3Cw
>The Lord's Prayer in Swahili, done in song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJiHDmyhE1A
>Hail Mary in Latin, done in song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihNVhFA_X3I
>Hallelujah Chorus done suddenly in the public
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp_RHnQ-jgU
>Quality Icelandic hymn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4dT8FJ2GE0
>>275023
You could always put forward one of Feser's books. He's not half bad for a modern academic argument for God, and one on the offense as well. His book Aquinas is pretty good.
>>275367
Pretty much dude. Getting stuck in limbo between two cultural groups suck.
>>255173
Don't the genologies in the Gospels still trace Jesus' lineage through Joseph to David though?
>>255170
Because it doesn't actually say anything like that in the Bible. That was just another example of men trying to use the name of God to give themselves more power on earth. The Catholic (universal) Church, got its charter from Jesus' proclamation to Peter, it doesn't need anything more than that.
So, what's your favorite Virgin with Child?
>>275958
Because no-one but God has the right to take away life. Furthermore, the child is not scum. It is not responsible for the rape.
>I should go now quietly
>For my bones have found a place to lie down and sleep
>Where all my layers can become reeds
>All my limbs can become trees
>All my children can become me
>What a mess I leave
>To follow
>>255235
Noice list m8.
Add John of Ruysbroeck to that mysticism list. Even just for quotes, if nothing else, the guy's amazing
>God in the depths of us receives God who comes to us: it is God contemplating God
Also
>Douay-Rheims
>Not RSV
Roman Catholic church is the Whore of Babylon.
Pope is an antichrist.
Tridentine Mass > Pleb Vernacular mass
Deal with it, heretics
>>275958
Because the child is completely innocent of what its scumbag "father" did?
Someone shoop some papal vestements onto le shig pig
I need it to make disparaging comments about posts in Catholic threads
>>279986
Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom > 16th century tridentine mass
>>280045
>Eastern Christianity
>Relevant
I'm joining the Ancient Order of Hibernians today. I guess it's not really a Catholic organization but you are required to be Catholic. Wish me luck.
>>280102
Irish person here
They're pretty irrelevant here in Ireland but I hear they're a big deal in New York. What made you join?
>>278504
Through Mary. Jewish geneology is matrilineal.
>>280065
Benedict certainly thought so. Eastern Catholicism, at least.
>>278615
this one is amazing
>>280211
That's literally only in the Talmud. Congrats, Christians adhere to rabbinical Judaism.
>>279986
Be mighty careful fellow brothers (and perhaps sisters). The Church is being besieged by scoundrels on all sides who want nothing more than to see your faith in Christ spoiled and your soul in Hell damned.
http://jaysanalysis.com/2010/04/19/what-has-happened-to-the-catholic-church-in-one-easy-article/
So study diligently and know well traditional Catholicism so the following won't happen to you:
http://ideas.time.com/2013/09/29/im-still-not-going-back-to-the-catholic-church/
>If you know about the Catholic Church only from reading the papers, you are in for a shock once you come inside. The image of American Catholicism shown by the media is of a church preoccupied with sex and abortion. It’s not remotely true. I was a faithful Mass-going Catholic for 13 years, attending a number of parishes in five cities in different parts of the country. I could count on one hand the number of homilies I heard that addressed abortion or sexuality in any way. Rather, the homilies were wholly therapeutic, almost always some saccharine variation of God is love.
>The contemporary era of global Catholicism began in 1959, when the newly elected Pope John XXIII sought to “open the windows” of the fusty old Church to the modern world by calling the Second Vatican Council. Three years later, in his opening address to the council, the charismatic and avuncular pope called for “a new enthusiasm, a new joy and serenity of mind in the unreserved acceptance by all of the entire Christian faith,” without compromising on doctrine. A fierce spirit of the age blasted through those newly-opened windows, scouring nearly everything in its path. The coming decades would see a collapse in Catholic catechesis and Catholic discipline. The so-called “spirit of Vatican II” — a perversion of the Council’s actual teaching — justified many subsequent outrages.
>>280313
>In 2002, when the clerical-sex-abuse scandal broke nationwide, the full extent of the rot within the church became manifest. All that post-Vatican II happy talk and non-judgmentalism had been a facade concealing what then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger — later Pope Benedict XVI — would call the “filth” in the church. Many American bishops deployed the priceless Christian language of love and forgiveness in an effort to cover their own foul nakedness in a cloak of cheap grace.
>During that excruciating period a decade ago, rage at what I and other journalists uncovered about the church’s corruption pried my ability to believe in Catholic Christianity out of me, like torturers ripping fingernails out with pliers. It wasn’t the crimes that did it as much as the bishops’ unwillingness to repent and the Vatican’s disinterest in holding them to account. If the church’s hierarchy cannot commit itself credibly to justice and mercy to the victims of its own clergy and bishops, I thought, do they really believe in the doctrines they teach?
>All this put the moral unseriousness of the American church in a certain light. As the scandal raged, one Ash Wednesday, I attended Mass at my comfortable suburban parish and heard the priest deliver a sermon describing Lent as a time when we should all come to love ourselves more.
>>280321
>If I had to pinpoint a single moment at which I ceased to be a Roman Catholic, it would have been that one. I fought for two more years to hold on, thinking that having the syllogisms from my catechism straight in my head would help me stand firm. But it was useless. By then I was a father, and I did not want to raise my children in a church where sentimentality and self-satisfaction were the point of the Christian life. It wasn’t safe to raise my children in this church, I thought — not because they would be at risk of predators but because the entire ethos of the American church, like the ethos of the decadent post-Christian society in which it lives, is not that we should die to ourselves so that we can live in Christ, as the New Testament demands, but that we should learn to love ourselves more.
>Flannery O’Connor, one of my Catholic heroes, famously said, “Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you. What people don’t realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course it is the cross.” American Catholicism was not pushing back against the hostile age at all. Rather, it had become a pushover. God is love was not a proclamation that liberated us captives from our sin and despair but rather a bromide and a platitude that allowed us to believe that and to behave as if our lust, greed, malice and so forth — sins that I struggled with every day — weren’t to be despised and cast out but rather shellacked by a river of treacle.
If you can, I would avoid Novus Ordus masses for the traditional one, but this might not always be possible.
Christ be with you.
>>280324
Also that is a great quote:
“Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you. What people don’t realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course it is the cross.”
An aside, but O'Connor herself is also an incredible writer and I highly recommend her stories and letters.
>>280184
It makes sense that they're a big deal in New York because it was founded here. Apparently the organizations in other countries aren't even affiliated with the entity in the U.S.
But I'd just been feeling steadily, increasingly nationalistic over the past several months. Now that I'm NEET for the first time since I was 2 years old, I've had time to read Joyce and stuff. Decided I should have a bit more to show for this nationalism and I wanted to belong to something. Talked to my Dad about it and he was interested. So here we are.
>>255157
Catholics/Rome been touching the kids since 753BCE.
>>255192
Who calls Mary the Queen of Heaven? I've never heard that in my life.
Are all martyrs automatically considered "blessed" by the Church?
>>282284
Or are they all saints?
>Abrahamic religions
pathetic
How was mass today, anons?
>Meet cute Catholic girl at church
>Invite her on a few dates
>After three dates, she points out that we haven't kissed yet
>I concur
>She asks me if I'm a virgin
>I confess that I am
>She visibly restrains laughter
>I don't ask her on any more dates
>>282305
>>282305
You're so "Zen-hai", my friend. Did you read 'Siddhartha' and think, "Boy, Buddhism sounds so alternative and hip, unlike those square Abrahamic religions"? Ah, no, I bet you read 'Kokoro' and thought K-san was so "kakkoii". I'm sure the glorious Nipponese people will be very "imupurresudu" by your respect for their culture when you finally save up enough money from working at McDonald's to move out of your mother's basement. Real Buddhists get hit by sticks—did you know that? You're pathetic, you know that? I'll pray for your soul tonight. Seek God, friend. Redemption comes from within.
>>255157
god isn't real
internet catholics are probably the most autistic section of the internet
>>284264
Please attend mass next Sunday, or speak to a priest right away if you can. Please also read the Bible; begin with the New Testament if it seems like too much of a chore. I'll pray for you.
>>284273
Kek
I spent my youth in sunday school, used to go to mass and was friends with the priest. My former church was a gothic wonder, almost 350 years old.
Doesn't change the fact catholicism is moronic, Orthodoxy has a larger claim to a legitimacy. Regardless it's not even useful, plus it's quite wrong.
>>284171
>goes on three dates and kisses you
Man, she likes you enough to do that, ask her out again and go for it
>>255157
tell me about clam
why does he wear the cross?
>always felt a deep spiritual longing
>messed around with paganism as a teen and loved it, as it taught me religion could be something you love and obsess over
>grew out of it, gravitated back to Christianity
>loved mysticism above all, had some visions from pagan gods, and one from Mary on Christmas Eve, also St. Therese sent me roses.
>ultimately found catholicism unsatisfying, couldn't relate to anyone else who practiced it, no one else interested in mysticism. Felt alone
>have continuously swung back and forth between more occult / esoteric strands of belief, and catholicism, as I can't seem to find where I fit
Life is suffering. Catholicism is beautiful, but everyone in the church seems alien to me, I just can't relate to it
>>284371
According to legend James the Elder is the one who evangelized Hispania.
When James was martryed some of his followers transported his body back to Iberia (he is said to have been buried under Santiago de Compostela Cathedral). When the ship containing his body reached the shores of Spain it frightened a man's horse, and the horse jumped into the ocean with it's rider on it. The rider and horse would later emerge from the water covered in scallops.
Of course non of that is true, and nobody believes it. Even my grandparents who are from rural Latin America know the story is just a legend. Despite that, the story of St. James stuck, and he is now the patron saint of Spain.
Today people make pilgrimages to Santiago de Compostela Cathedral. Pilgrims who make this trip are given a scallop shell because it is the symbol of St. James, and because it also represents the pilgrimage itself. There are dozens of paths to the cathedral, but everyone's journey stops at the same point. Just like how there are many groves in a scallop shell, but they all go to the same destination.
The cross painted onto it is the cross of St. James, which is another important symbol in the Iberian world. St. James gave the Christian forces of Portugal, Castile and Aragon inspiration during the Reconquista.
>>284171
Don't listen to those faggots. Find someone pure.
>>284383
You had visions?
>>285070
Do pure Catholic girls exist anymore?
>>285074
Yup.
I worshipped An Morrigan for a while (Irishfriend here, she's our war/battle goddess), and she gave me a few visions:
>women screaming, but you couldn't tell if it was out of pain or sexual pleasure. I think that was the lesson- the two are linked
>a crow's head (her image is the scaldcrow)
>her face, twice. She's quite pretty, a small, round face, with black hair tied back, and frightening, shining blue eyes.
When I swung back to Catholicism, I said the rosary with candles and incense in the dark on Christmas night (or possibly Christmas eve) and I got:
>Mary (or possibly St. Therese) in a nun's habit, looking at me sternly. The nature of visions is that two things can be one simultaneously, like in dreams, so I couldn't tell which it was. Never quite grasped the meaning of this, it seemed to be kind of warning me off.
The roses from St. Therese were different. I was swinging between Catholicism and other paths, and I said a novena to Therese asking for guidance. The idea of the novena was that you'd receive roses from heaven on the last day from her, giving you guidance. It was a friday, I was going to go to mass between lectures but decided to skip it and hung out with a girl I knew in the city. We were in a shop, laughing and having a good time, and I just avoided knocking over a pedestal with something on it. When I looked, I saw it was a big bunch of roses. I've always interpreted this as meaning that I need to direct my energies outside the normal structures of the church (i.e. not just exoteric catholicism).
Visions are hard to describe if you haven't had them, but they're quite distinct from daydreams or your imagination- you're kind of pulled into it involuntarily. I was totally speechless and shaking after the Mary one, I was mid-prayer and could barely bring myself to finish it, even though the vision must have been just a few seconds long. That's the kind of impression it makes on you
>>285158
I don't know ;-;
>>281833
Ave regina caelorum,
ave domina angelorum...
(Hail queen of heaven,
hail queen of the angels)
>>282291
It was pretty much that way in the days of Christian persecution, that is the early saints were martyrs. After the Edict of Milan, monasticism/asceticism became the "new martyrdom", that these holy men strove to be "living martyrs" in a time where the year of persecution ended abruptly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hakb6S0IpgY
Based Catholic priest
>>285263
youre tormented by demons. Go to a priest
>>285263
Go see a psychologist and an exorcist
Is Catholic mysticism nonsense? I know some saints were mystics
